Ideas for a greater public transport system

Ideas and concepts of what Adelaide can be.
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littledyl16
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Idea's to improve our public transport

#1 Post by littledyl16 » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:04 pm

Currently, our transport system still needs to be improved so that all Adelaideans can travel within city easily, even with the recent changes, some are still having trouble communting although others are quite happy with the changes, especially those who live within walking distance of the new go-zones, but unfortunately not all of us do, and frankly, i dont think Pat Conlon would ever think of some sort of grand idea to help ease congestion on the city roads and to improve the standard of our public transport, so member, please share your ideas

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#2 Post by z80 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:21 pm

1. Electrify your railway.

2. Buy some new trains to run on your electrified railway. When I say new, I mean new like a new born baby, not refurbished/ 2nd hand.

3. Increase running times to at least every 15 mins in off peak and 7 mins in peak.

4. Rework the bus network so that it acts as a feeder system for the train network where practical, freeing up additional buses for additional bus services.

Oh, and if you think that I'm crazy, and all this can't be done, see http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au

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#3 Post by AG » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:42 am

Buying new trains sounds a lot easier than it really is. We no longer have the facilities (Islington Workshops) to construct our own fleet of suburban trains here in SA, and a previous manufacturer of broad gauge suburban trains for both Melbourne and Adelaide (Commonwealth Engineering who manufactured Melbourne's Comengs and Adelaide's 3000/3100 railcar fleet) no longer exists. It could be possible that we could get Alstom's plant at Ballarat to build new railcars for us and then transported on standard gauge bogies over to Adelaide. They built most of Melbourne's X'trapolis train fleet there. Melbourne imported some of it's new X'trapolis and Siemens trains from overseas.

On second thoughts, it may just be better to install new gauge convertible sleepers across the entire network, then shut down the whole suburban rail network at once for several months to allow for conversion to standard gauge as well as electrify the network. While this is happening, numerous stations could be upgraded and some level crossings grade seperated. This is similar to what happened in Melbourne recently, where they shut down a section of rail line, grade seperated a level crossing as well as rebuilt Laburnum station and other improvements, all completed within one month. There's plenty of manufacturers of standard gauge suburban trains, the two I can think off the top of my head are EDI Rail (who built Sydney's Millennium trains) and United Group (who are building Sydney's Oscars).

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#4 Post by Edgar » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:24 am

Personally, I would love to take the bus over the train, because they trains look awful and well, kind of disgusting to me (sorry guys). but on the other hand, buses are not as efficient as the trains, depending on the traffic flows, it is pretty much directly relying on a smooth traffic in order to transport commuters fast enough.

I would vote for increase in buses fleet during peak hours but that would contribute to more congestion and more global warming. Not only will it use up more natural resources but at the same time increase the noise level of the surrounding.

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#5 Post by Al » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:51 am

Just wondering why nobody's really consider double decker buses like the ones used overseas. Surely they're better than those long double buses that take up two lanes when parking. Has it got anything to do with the trees that might get in the way?

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#6 Post by Edgar » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:57 am

Yeah, a double decker bus is taller than a cargo trailer, and even cargo trailers have to drive on the outside lane to avoid hitting tree branches.

So if they need to travel on the outer land and have to keep cutting back into the inside lane to stop for passengers, then, it will not be that efficient after all, although it does carry more passengers.

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#7 Post by stelaras » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:34 am

my two bobs worth:

1. Adelaide must electrify its train system. The central station should be re-developed to look and feel like a central station, currently and from what i remember it looked rather bland

The lines should be extended radiating from the central station to all key areas of Adelaide. ie, North, South, East and West and areas inbetween.

The train system should be looped/tubed under the city, stations can be created underneath our four squares

The new train system should be aportioned in sectors, Section 1 (from central staion to about 4kms radius of the city, section 2 from 4km radius to 12km radius from the city and section 3 from 12kms to 40 km radius). At each of these sections stations need to be re-developed so they act as interchanges

2. Tram lines need to put throughout the CBD and to areas such as Unley, Norwood, North Adelaide, Entertainment centre, AAMI stadium, Marion Shopping centre.

3. Bus time tables improved such that buses run on a 10-15 minute schedule during peak times and 30minutes schedule during non peak times. Creation of Bus only lanes down ALL the main roads of our city and Transit lanes through the city where buses have priority over cars.

Adelaide was the countrys first totally planned city, it has very wide open roads and lots of space...all of these ideas can be incorporated into what currently exists today. Our inner city roads are wide enough, if places like melbourne/sydney can accomodate these aspects of transport on roads that are not as wide as ours then im sure Adelaide can accomodate.

Yes, it will cost money, and there will be delays etc, but if we invest now when the city isnt as big and the traffic really isnt a problem because lets face it, taking 18 minutes in peak hour traffic to travel across the city, isnt that bad when on average im in my car for 70minutes to cross the city in melbourne (thats using any of the 4 freeways available), anyway the point is one does these things now when the impact is less as opposed to a staggered thing over the next 30 years when the traffic problem will be much much worse...

These are my comments feel free to shoot them down!

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#8 Post by AtD » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:09 pm

The problem with double-decker buses is they take a lot longer to load and unload than a two door rigid or three door articulated bus, meaning they're generally slower.

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#9 Post by rogue » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:06 pm

Cities such as London are now changing to articulated buses as they hold more passengers than double deckers.

Hopefully the new articulated buses for the O-Bahn aren't far off....

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O-Bahn is the answer

#10 Post by TooFar » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:04 am

I believe Adelaide so do away with the complete passenger train network. Instead, replace all existing lines with 4 lanes of O-Bahn tracks. The inner two lanes will be used for express busses while the outside lanes will be stopping buses. Expresses buses will come from the outer suburbs and not stop once they hit inner Adelaide. The inner suburban buses can join the network from any nearby main road, without disrupting the express buses. It can all be controlled via a computer software system so buses can run at maximum speed and duration with out compromising safety.

This solution would provide three immediate benefits, remove a lot of the bus congestion from main roads, reducing the need to purchase expensive diesel-electric trains, and provide more regular service. It would also make Adelaide a pioneer and world leader in Mass Transit solutions.

It is stupid the Adelaide has 4 different modes of public transports, it makes no sense. Bite the bullet and make Adelaide an O-Bahn city.

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#11 Post by AtD » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:14 am

TooFar, our existing railcars have a top speed of 160km/h and a capacity of 110 seated passengers per car, in a maximum of six car sets, meaning 660 seated passengers. A bus, on the other hand, has a max speed of 100km/h and capacity of ~80 seated passengers. Then compare Sydney's double-decker trains running in eight-car sets. Even with a dedicated corridor, buses just don't have the numbers next to heavy rail, sorry.

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#12 Post by bdm » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:40 am

Yes our railcars have a top speed of that but their acceleration is absolute shit and the stations are too close together to take advantage of the potential top speed.

We need a KWS subway, the organisation of the railway system into two lines (Noarlunga-Gawler, Port-Belair), electrification and the removal of a lot of near-redundant stations.

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#13 Post by Ho Really » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:43 am

TooFar, guided buses such as the O-Bahn are dead technology. Have you thought how they should solve the problem of level-crossings? Will the guided bus have to retract and extend its guide wheels at speed, slow down or will there be over and underpasses built?

You are better off just having normal buses run in road corridors.

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#14 Post by Ho Really » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:47 am

bdm wrote:...We need a KWS subway, the organisation of the railway system into two lines (Noarlunga-Gawler, Port-Belair), electrification and the removal of a lot of near-redundant stations.
The King William Street subway would form a loop back to the Keswick Interstate Terminal. The other subway could go east under North Terrace or Rundle Mall/Street to your choice of suburbs.

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#15 Post by AtD » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:34 pm

bdm wrote:Yes our railcars have a top speed of that but their acceleration is absolute shit and the stations are too close together to take advantage of the potential top speed
Not to mention the network-wide speed limit of 90km/h imposed, because it's easier than maintaining the track.

The acceleration of the 3000 class is alright, they're diesel-electric. The Jumbos are a bit gutless, being diesel-hydrologic. There's a lot of daytime express runs where they could get up to such speeds if TA allowed them.

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