Ideas for a greater public transport system

Ideas and concepts of what Adelaide can be.
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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#151 Post by AG » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:53 am

This idea for the suburban rail system I have been working on for a little while, although I've only drawn up the very rough details like everyone else has, but I have considered very specific details (ie. the actual operations of the system).

This first image is an underground section of the network that could be built under King William Street in the city, allowing trains to travel further into the city, while also creating cross-town suburban rail links that currently don't exist due to the need for turnarounds at Adelaide Station.

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2975 ... onskl2.jpg

The second image shows some of the suburban extensions that should be done (marked in blue and pink). The extensions to West Lakes, Seaford and Flinders Uni are ones that have continuously been brought up in the media from time to time. However, noone has mentioned the possibility of extending the network up to Buckland Park through Burton once it is established. Also included is a possible route from the Airport to Norwood via the city, using excess capacity (between Keswick and Mile End) that would be created by the rerouting of other suburban lines.

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/881/ ... onsor2.jpg

There would be work required on existing lines as well such as:
- Electrification
- Converting to standard gauge to allow for ease of access to new rollingstock, and increasing the efficiency of operations by integrating existing ARTC tracks into the network
- Splitting the suburban operations into 3 sectors or groups to limit knock-on effects created by delays on one line

Northern Lines:
- Adding a fourth track between North Adelaide and Salisbury
- Duplicating the existing ARTC line between Salisbury and Virginia
- Constructing two tracks on a new alignment from Virginia to Buckland Park (5 new stations)
- Constructing a 3rd platform at Elizabeth (for terminating trains)
- Constructing 2 additional platforms at Mawson Lakes
- Constructing 2 additional platforms at Salisbury
- Grade separation between North Adelaide and Salisbury - requiring the reconstruction of Ovingham, Parafield and Salisbury

North-western Lines:
- Adding a third track between Woodville and Bowden
- Duplicating the Grange line between Woodville and Seaton Park
- Constructing a tunnel between Seaton Park and West Lakes (2 new stations)
- Constructing one additional platform at Seaton Park
- Constructing one additional platform at Albert Park
- Constructing one additional platform at Woodville
- Grade separation between Woodville and Bowden

Southern Lines:
- Adding third and fourth tracks between Goodwood and Ascot Park
- Adding a third track between Ascot Park and Brighton
- Constructing flyovers at Goodwood Junction to carry the Noarlunga and Bedford Park Lines over the Belair Line (to allow trains to enter the correct dive into the city)
- Grade separation between Goodwood and Brighton
- Extending the line from Noarlunga to Seaford with 2 tracks (3 new stations)
- Duplicating and extending the Tonsley branch to Bedford Park (Flinders Uni)
- Reconstructing Goodwood Station (new elevated level concourse, 6 platforms, new entrance, interchange with the tram)
- Constructing 2 additional platforms at Woodlands Park
- Constructing a third platform at Oaklands
- Constructing additional platforms for each station on the Tonsley branch

South-Eastern Lines:
- Reconstructing the existing TransAdelaide side of the Sleeps Hill Tunnel
- Reopening the closed platforms at Torrens Park, Lynton and Coromandel
- Constructing a new platform at Eden Hills
- Grade separating the crossings at Unley Park and Hawthorn - requiring the reconstruction of Unley Park

The network could be split into sectors such that the northern lines run cross-town services with the southern lines, while the north-western lines run cross-town with the south-eastern lines. Some services would not continue cross-town and these would terminate at Central (southern services) or Goodwood (northern services)

Types of services:
Northern Lines -
1. Gawler Central to City - Stopping all stations to Salisbury, running express from Salisbury to Mawson Lakes, Mawson Lakes to Central, then the City and beyond. (every 15 minutes outside peak hour)
2. Buckland Park to City - Stopping all stations to Central, then the City and beyond. (every 15 minutes outside peak hour)
3. Gawler Central to City - Stopping all stations to Elizabeth, running express from Elizabeth to Salisbury, Salisbury to Central, then the City and beyond. (Peak hour only)
4. Gawler to City - Stopping all stations to Salisbury, running express from Salisbury to Central, then the City and beyond. (Peak hour only)
5. Elizabeth to City - Stopping all stations to Central, then the City and beyond. (Peak hour only)
6. Buckland Park to City - Stopping all stations to Salisbury, running express from Salisbury to Mawson Lakes, Mawson Lakes to Central, then the City and beyond. (Peak hour only)

North-western Lines -
1. Outer Harbor to City - Stopping all stations to Woodville, running express from Woodville to Bowden, then the City and beyond. (every 20 minutes outside peak hour)
2. West Lakes to City - Stopping all stations to Central, then the City and beyond. (every 20 minutes outside peak hour)
3. Grange to Woodville - Stopping all stations to Woodville (shuttle outside peak hour, every 20 minutes outside peak hour)
4. Outer Harbor to City - Stopping all stations to Ethelton, running express from Ethelton to Woodville, Woodville to Bowden, then the City and beyond (Peak hour only)
5. Grange to Goodwood - Stopping all stations to Goodwood via Central. (Peak hour only)
6. Glanville to City - Stopping all stations to Central, then the City and beyond. (Peak hour only)

Southern Lines -
1. Seaford to City - Stopping all stations to Brighton, running express from Brighton to Oaklands, Oaklands to Goodwood, then the City and beyond. (every 15 minutes outside peak hour)
2. Brighton to Central - Stopping all stations to Central via Mile End. (every 15 minutes outside peak hour)
3. Bedford Park to City - Stopping all stations to Goodwood, then the City and beyond. (every 15 minutes outside peak hour)
4. Seaford to City - Stopping all stations to Brighton, running express from Brighton to Goodwood, then the City and beyond (Peak hour only)

South-eastern Lines -
1. Belair to City - Stopping all stations to Goodwood, then the City and beyond. (every 20 minutes outside peak hour)
2. Belair to City - Stopping all stations to Eden Hills, running express from Eden Hills to Mitcham, Mitcham to Goodwood, then the City and beyond (Peak hour only)

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#152 Post by Norman » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:39 am

Some good ideas there, just have a feq questions:

-Wouldn't 1 or 2 stations be enough for Seaford? The suburb isn't that big, and in the proposal only 2 stops were added for Seaford.
-The 4 track from Goodwood-Ascot Park is a bit excessive, I doubt the Flinders Uni line would have that much traffic, maybe a 20 or 30 min fequency at best.
-Extending the track into Flinders Uni needs a bit more detail... but I can tell you now, no train can get up Flinders Hill, a tunnel would be the only way and the elevator would have to be really long, Flinders Hill is quite big.

The other ideas I like very much, good work :)

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#153 Post by AG » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:06 pm

Yeh, I left the details for the extension of the Tonsley branch a bit vague because I couln't decide as to whether a long tunnel into Flinders Uni would be better, or just extending the line several hundred metres south and having a bus-rail interchange and park and ride station at Bedford Park right next to the entrance to the Southern Expressway.

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#154 Post by SRW » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:12 pm

normangerman wrote:Some good ideas there, just have a feq questions:
-Extending the track into Flinders Uni needs a bit more detail... but I can tell you now, no train can get up Flinders Hill, a tunnel would be the only way and the elevator would have to be really long, Flinders Hill is quite big.
Indeed. The closest it could get would be outside the Medical Centre or maybe Sturt (but really, who wants to go there...). But that would require disruption to South Rd. The most sensible location would be Science Park, across the road, with shuttle buses and an elevated walkway over South Rd.
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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#155 Post by Shuz » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:55 pm

Some good ideas, just to give a heads up - Buckland Park development is going to be located south of Gawler River. It even says so on the map.

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#156 Post by ReallyBad » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:56 pm

The subway under King William Street was part of the MATS plan of 1968 - the proposed method of condstruction was to build a big trench lay the track and then roof it - a bit harder now the tram has been done but still worth it in my opinion
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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#157 Post by AG » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:47 pm

The idea I have for the tunnels in the city are for them to be constructed in deep level tube tunnels. 4 tunnels each carrying one track, with one level of tracks stacked on top of the other (to minimise the amount of building foundations that they would pass under), meaning that each underground station would need at least 3 levels - the concourse and the two platform levels (the platforms are islands). They'd almost certainly need to pass underneath the AMP Building at the corner of KWS and North Terrace.

The tunnel dives would be just south of the Showgrounds near Leader Street from Goodwood (4 tunnel dives), just north of the Port Road bridge at Mile End (2 dives) and just north-west of the Gaol Loop south of the river (4 tunnel dives).

At Adelaide Station the concourse serving the underground platforms would be linked via a tunnel to the existing Railway Station concourse. The capacity left by the terminating platforms at Adelaide Station could be used to serve terminating suburban services along with the possibility of longer-distance train services.

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#158 Post by AG » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:10 pm

With the above info, layouts and listed stopping patterns, I came up with the following timetabling:

Service Frequencies (Off-peak)

 Gawler Central to Nurlutta – 15 minutes
 Buckland Park to Burton – 15 minutes
 Salisbury – 7.5 minutes (approx)
 Chidda to Greenfields – 15 minutes
 Mawson Lakes – 7.5 minutes (approx)
 Dry Creek to North Adelaide – 15 minutes
 Outer Harbor to Cheltenham – 20 minutes
 Grange to East Grange – 20 minutes (Grange to Woodville shuttle)
 West Lakes to Seaton North – 20 minutes
 Seaton Park to Albert Park – 10 minutes (20 minutes for city bound trains)
 Woodville – 10 minutes for city bound trains, 20 minutes for Grange shuttle (approx)
 Woodville Park to Croydon – 20 minutes
 Bowden – 10 minutes (approx)
 Belair to Unley Park – 20 minutes
 Seaford to Seacliff – 15 minutes
 Brighton – 7.5 minutes (approx)
 Hove to Warradale – 15 minutes
 Oaklands – 7.5 minutes (approx)
 Marion to Ascot Park – 15 minutes
 Bedford Park to Clovelly Park – 15 minutes
 Woodlands Park to Clarence Park – 7.5 minutes (approx)
 Goodwood – 4 minutes (approx)
 Keswick to Mile End – 15 minutes


Peak Hour Services (Trains per Hour)

 Gawler Central to Gawler Oval – 6
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 3)
 Gawler to Womma – 8
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 3)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
 Elizabeth – 12
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 3)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
 Elizabeth South to Nurlutta – 8
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
 Buckland Park to Burton – 6
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 6)
 Salisbury – 18
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 3)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 6)
 Chidda to Greenfields – 8
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
 Mawson Lakes – 12
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 6)
 Dry Creek to North Adelaide – 8
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)

 Outer Harbor to Peterhead – 4
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
 Glanville to Ethelton – 6
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 2 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 6)
 Port Adelaide to Cheltenham – 4
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 2 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 6)
 West Lakes to Seaton North – 4
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
 Grange to East Grange – 3
ï‚· 3 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
 Seaton Park to Albert Park – 7
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 3 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
 Woodville – 13
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 3 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
ï‚· 2 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 6)
 Woodville Park to Croydon – 9
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 3 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
ï‚· 2 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 6)
 Bowden – 13
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 2 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· 3 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 5)
ï‚· 2 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 6)

 Seaford to Seacliff – 8
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
 Brighton – 14
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
 Hove to Warradale – 4
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
 Oaklands – 10
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
 Marion to Ascot Park – 6
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
 Bedford Park to Clovelly Park – 6
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 3)
 Woodlands Park to Clarence Park – 12
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 3)
 Goodwood – 25
ï‚· Southern Lines:
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 2)
ï‚· 6 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 3)
ï‚· 4 limited express (stopping pattern 4)
ï‚· South-eastern Lines:
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 1 limited express (stopping pattern 2)

 Belair to Eden Hills – 5
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 1 limited express (stopping pattern 2)
 Lynton to Torrens Park – 4
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 1)
 Mitcham – 5
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 1)
ï‚· 1 limited express (stopping pattern 2)
 Unley Park – 4
ï‚· 4 stopping all stations (stopping pattern 1)

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#159 Post by Dave_The_Planner » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:08 pm

I don't mind the overhead power lines, as they are contained within railway corridors which are for that most part out of site. I think the benefits of going electric far out-weigh the problem of a few wires.

But do the tunnels need to be as far away as Leader Street as suggested? Couldn't they be located in the Keswick railyards and then loop under the west parklands?

A city loop would be nice, however I think now that the tram(s) are back, we'll be seeing any future expansion above ground in tram-form.

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#160 Post by AG » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:04 pm

Dave_The_Planner wrote:I don't mind the overhead power lines, as they are contained within railway corridors which are for that most part out of site. I think the benefits of going electric far out-weigh the problem of a few wires.

But do the tunnels need to be as far away as Leader Street as suggested? Couldn't they be located in the Keswick railyards and then loop under the west parklands?

A city loop would be nice, however I think now that the tram(s) are back, we'll be seeing any future expansion above ground in tram-form.
I think you're a bit confused with what I've proposed. The reason the tunnel dives are so far south is because the tunnel entrances are for trains heading north into the city from the south and vice versa out of the city (in the link I've posted), not for trains going around a loop. The idea is for cross-town services, not just city-suburb services. If the tunnel dives were further north, the trains heading out of the city from Wayville would have to do a large sweeping bend in order to reach ground level from underground and the gradient would be rather steep.

I don't think it is neccessary to include Keswick and Mile End as part of a loop. Otherwise they'd be getting way more services than they really need, hence why I have some proposed services from the south heading direct to Adelaide Station via Mile End.

The problem with running a loop service is that some locations on the loop become inconvenient to access when running particular services. This problem is evident on Melbourne's City Loop where services from particular "groups" of lines are run only in one direction around the loop depending on time of day. You could run alternating services in opposite directions around the loop but it would require an inefficient layout of tunnels and tracks in order to prevent a tangle of lines.

Basically the City Loop in Melbourne is ordered into four groups of suburban lines - The Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill, and Northern Groups. Each of these groups has one track in one tunnel dedicated to it in the underground portion of the loop (Parliament, Melbourne Central and Flagstaff stations). On weekdays, during the morning the trains operate such that Flinders Street is as close to the last city station reached as possible and vice versea for the afternoon, hence the following direction of travel occurs:

AM:
Clockwise - Northern
Anticlockwise - Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill

PM:
Clockwise - Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill
Anticlockwise - Northern

This makes things somewhat difficult in some cases. For example, it isn't possible to travel from Flinders Street Station in the morning to anywhere else on the Loop (except Southern Cross) without first going to Richmond or North Melbourne to change trains. Likewise, in the afternoon it is impossible to travel from any of the City Loop stations to Flinders Street without first changing at Richmond or North Melbourne. However, not all trains travel via the Loop, so it is possible to travel direct to Flinders Street without going around the Loop, eg. Sandringham Line trains don't use the loop except on weekends, and trains that only go to and from the city during peak hour (Williamstown, Alamein).

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#161 Post by AG » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:26 pm

Just thought this might be of interest to some, regarding the City Loop in Melbourne as to why it was constructed and how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUwyejZxOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGgB9N-4XM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEch2KRenY

Note that Museum is now called Melbourne Central, Spencer Street is now Southern Cross, and Princes Bridge no longer exists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGxNg01k1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m18jplrFpTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_J-qQwGVuQ

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#162 Post by Norman » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:31 am

I have another idea

What about the following? (Black=Underground, Grey=Ground Level
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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#163 Post by Howie » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:21 am

AG wrote:Just thought this might be of interest to some, regarding the City Loop in Melbourne as to why it was constructed and how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUwyejZxOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGgB9N-4XM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEch2KRenY

Note that Museum is now called Melbourne Central, Spencer Street is now Southern Cross, and Princes Bridge no longer exists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGxNg01k1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m18jplrFpTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_J-qQwGVuQ
Great collection of clips there.. nice work!

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#164 Post by Ho Really » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:14 am

normangerman wrote:I have another idea

What about the following? (Black=Underground, Grey=Ground Level)

Image
Why cut through the parklands (Bonython Park) when you already have a corridor up to the Old Adelaide Gaol? You can underground it from there under the west parklands along West Terrace and then turn into Currie Street. The other section to Keswick would be OK. Where does the line under Currie and Grenfell Street terminate, Norwood, Kensington Gardens?

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Re: Ideas for a greater public transport system

#165 Post by Norman » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:04 pm

Ho Really wrote:
normangerman wrote:I have another idea

What about the following? (Black=Underground, Grey=Ground Level)

Image
Why cut through the parklands (Bonython Park) when you already have a corridor up to the Old Adelaide Gaol? You can underground it from there under the west parklands along West Terrace and then turn into Currie Street. The other section to Keswick would be OK. Where does the line under Currie and Grenfell Street terminate, Norwood, Kensington Gardens?

Cheers
I thought about using the old corridor, but the new one would alloow trains to move though faster and avoid heavy turns.

The train would initially terminate in the City, but I haven't thought about expanding.

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