The O-bahn

[Shuz]

It runs at a profit, easily. I got on a 2pm bus once and it was just packed. Not even the trams are that packed at 2pm. Which is why I favour for an upgrade to a heavy rail corridor to sustain the larger capacity during the day.

[AG]

The O-Bahn does not run at a profit. There is not a single public transport corridor in Adelaide that runs at a profit.

[AtD]

Well, from what I've seen, it is VERY well patronised. In fact, it is probably the most patronised public transport corridor in Adelaide.

If I remember correctly, it's third, after the Gawler and Noarlunga lines.

[jk1237]

I dont think there would be any public transport system in the western world that makes a profit. The ones that may come close might be the London Underground, New York subway and Paris metro
For those wanting some stats, this is on Adelaide metro website for 2006

[jk1237]

The one stat that would be different is the use of trams, due to the sucess of the tram extension. May be up to 4-5% now. Train travel may be slightly higer due to opening of Mawson Interchange, and traffic issues making people go to PT that has a reserved track. I wish the O'bahn was a rail line though.

[AG]

There are only about 3 public transportation systems in the world that operate with an economic profit, mainly in Asia; Singapore's MRT, Hong Kong's MTR, and various Tokyo operators (JR the main one). Most of the systems that do operate to a profit though have the operator of the system also undertaking property development at their own train stations, through which the systems themselves benefit from more passengers. There are a few more that operate to a normal profit, but the vast majority operate to a loss.

[sam]

One thing that frustrates me with the O-Bahn is the poor weekend services. Due to very few Paradise interchange routes (eg: 50x, and 55x) continuing through to the city and nearly all terminating at Paradise pretty much every Saturday morning bus is packed more than weekday peak! And then Saturday afternoon peak around 5pm heading out of the city is pretty bad as well!

I'm assuming that Saturdays are overlooked as their main mission statement is:

To increase the use of all public transport to 10 percent of weekday passenger by 2018.

However surely the next two mission statements can warrant the improvement of Saturday services:

Improve the quality and frequency of public transport to attract patronage, enhance social inclusion and improve the environment.

To make better use of current public transport assets.

[PhilH]

Have to agree with you, Sam, especially the last bit - it annoys me intensely to see, on a Saturday or Sunday, an articulated bus doing a very lightly loaded run (3 or 4 passengers) between TTP and Paradise on a 503 or 507, and then changing to a rigid M44 or Jetbus that is standing room only! Surely on weekends, the artics should be used only on J1/J2/J3/M44, and all the feeders should be regular rigids, midis or even minis?

And another thing - there is NO excuse for Sunday 507's between TTP and Paradise to be continually running 7-8 minutes late! That's worse than weekday peak! The last couple of times, the bus has only just made it to Paradise in time for a connecting bus to the city - any later, and I would have had a 15 minute wait. I'm seriously considering walking an extra few minutes down North East Road to pick up the 271 instead - a longer journey time, but at least it is oniy one bus, and it does stop slightly closer to my preferred destination in town.

[Go Adelaide]

I've heard that TTG council are in the process of amending their Development Plan to allow residential high rise buildings within 750 metres of the TTP interchange. They are also proposing other density increases across the Council area around activity centres with bus links to the O-bahn interchange. The Documents are on their web site (consultation documents).

I know that the TTP interchange is designed to have a tower built over the existing structure with the footing pads already in place. This could be a combination retail/commercial/residential tower similar to the towers found in Sydney's Bondi Junction interchange.

The way I see it, the increased population in the O-bahn catchment is the key to increased/improved services on the O-bahn. It will be the push of the increased population that ensures the right size and frequency of service.

Go Adelaide

[thechap]

Well, from what I've seen, it is VERY well patronised. In fact, it is probably the most patronised public transport corridor in Adelaide.

I dont really have anything to compare it to - but when I used it (up til June 07) every bus for two to three hours in the morning and then afternoon was packed to standing room only.

[rhino]

I think the O'Bahn has had it's day, and should be converted to light rail, similar to Perth's, which can carry far more passengers than busses. Sure, heavy rail can carry even more people, but is more expensive to buy and to run, and you usually find that it runs less frequently because of costs. Busses should be used for feeder services to proper transport interchanges at places like Golden Grove (if it's extended there), TTP, Paradise and Klemzig.

Regarding the extension to Golden Grove - how flat (or not) is the route?

Regarding a southern O'Bahn - this was looked into in the 1990s and the only viable route utilised the old Glenelg train corridor and then the Sturt Linear Reserve. It required 22 bridges to be built and was considered un-economic due to this, and the less-than-direct route to Darlington (remember Glenelg is already serviced by the tram). There was no point in going further than darlington as speed would be restricted by the hill anyway, and there was already an 80kmh controlled-access road up Tapleys Hill (South Road). Part of the old Glenelg train corridor has since been used for road (James Congden Drive).

I have heard that the concrete O'Bahn track was designed for a thirty-year life span and is now suffering concrete stress and may need to be replaced in the future. Can anyone confirm this? If this is the case, that would be the ideal time to convert to light rail.

[AG]

I think the O'Bahn has had it's day, and should be converted to light rail, similar to Perth's, which can carry far more passengers than busses. Sure, heavy rail can carry even more people, but is more expensive to buy and to run, and you usually find that it runs less frequently because of costs. Busses should be used for feeder services to proper transport interchanges at places like Golden Grove (if it's extended there), TTP, Paradise and Klemzig.

Regarding the extension to Golden Grove - how flat (or not) is the route?

Regarding a southern O'Bahn - this was looked into in the 1990s and the only viable route utilised the old Glenelg train corridor and then the Sturt Linear Reserve. It required 22 bridges to be built and was considered un-economic due to this, and the less-than-direct route to Darlington (remember Glenelg is already serviced by the tram). There was no point in going further than darlington as speed would be restricted by the hill anyway, and there was already an 80kmh controlled-access road up Tapleys Hill (South Road). Part of the old Glenelg train corridor has since been used for road (James Congden Drive).

I have heard that the concrete O'Bahn track was designed for a thirty-year life span and is now suffering concrete stress and may need to be replaced in the future. Can anyone confirm this? If this is the case, that would be the ideal time to convert to light rail.

The concrete track does suffer from a lot of stress placed on it from the pressure of the guide wheels, particularly on the curves where the pressure is increased. There have already been at least one or two incidents in the past few years where a bus has 'derailed' because of failure of the side of the concrete guideway. I am not sure whether the guideway is reinforced with steel or not (as far as I am aware it isn't), but it may be a solution to this issue as it would allow for greater stress capacity on the guideway.

By the way, the light rail in Perth you refer to is actually their commuter rail system, they currently don't have a light rail system but they may in future.

[urban]

All structural concrete is reinforced with steel. Even street kerbing is reinforced. Without the steel concrete falls apart when tensile forces are applied.

[bm7500]

With the price of Oil going over US $100 a barrell for the first time today, you can be sure more people will be looking to use PT as their cars become to expensive to run all the time.

[AG]

All structural concrete is reinforced with steel. Even street kerbing is reinforced. Without the steel concrete falls apart when tensile forces are applied.

I've heard of a few cases where structural concrete hasn't been reinforced with steel (though it is very rare these days). The concrete doesn't exactly fall apart as such, but the concrete is riddled with large cracks and is very weak in tension. Best example of it around Adelaide is in the stobie poles that are broken but still standing, buckled steel and chunks of concrete missing and cracked.