Victoria Square Visions

[cleverick]

A couple of comments before I propose my own plan:
Edgar, I agree that pedestrian access is paramount to this plan.
AG, a bowl will not hide the smell or noise from traffic, a mound is a much better idea. The bowl could work in Whitmore, however, and create a unique public space in what is essentially a suburb.
Muzzamo, I assume you're not serious when you suggest a freeway intersection in place of Vic Squ.
Shuz, making Vic Squ a round about was my initial plan, too. But pedestrian access is necessary. The concept could work for the other squares since they're too short for tunnels, but not at Vic Squ where we have space to play around with.
Whoever said pretty European trees is an evil, evil person. What's wrong with gums? In Melbourne they work quite effectively as avenue trees, why should we have to import poplars or plane trees? Vic Squ, despite the name, should be Australian.

Fine-tuning with the resources of a government is a given, but here's the bare bones:
1, KWS to underpass F-F and G-A streets. Start descent at W-P and complete ascent at W-C. (No direct traffic connection, but the idea that there must be is a car-ruled society idea, and if the government always built roads to accomodate traffic patterns, KW would be 5 lanes wide each way by now.)
2, G-W to underpass the square. Start descent at Penaluna Pl and complete ascent at Gawler Place.

Depending on the distances, a traffic study and cost, KW would either intersect underground or go under the (shorter and therefore shallower) G-W underpass. We know from Goodwood road that the slope can be significant and the walls sheer

3, Extend Vic Squ to the western and eastern extremities, have a wide footpath and grass- all front entrances would open onto the Squ.
4, The tram would stay where it is. This would be tricky to construct, but I'm sure our engineers will manage it.

As for the lay out of the squ:

5, I leave it up to you. I like the idea of a smaller, Federation Squ style paved area, perhaps in the north west where there are already cafes and so forth...
6, The section around the three rivers fountain could become a lake, with the fountain and a picnic table on an island a la Rymill Lake...
7, The south west could be a large grassed area with stage/amphitheatre system which would hold events like the Tour Down Under, public screenings of the World Cup, or free shows during the Fringe as well as the tram interchange: north loop, south loop, north adelaide beeline...
8, The south east corner could have a brick public toilet (none of this steel temporary crap), an information centre in addition to the one in Rundle Mall, playground, picnic table, BBQ...
9, The area around St. Xavier's would become a memorial garden for civilians in the Iraq war, or an op shop for the Cathedral, or an ideal place to situate the blue i, or any number of things.
10, Water fountains and avenue-walkways throughout.

People's thoughts? I think we all agree on what should go into Vic Squ, we're now debating how to get the traffic out.
So what about my idea?

[Norman]

Why make King William Street 5 lanes each way when there are no real city street connections or when it's only 2 or 3 lanes at each end of the city? And what about buses and the tram? And will making it 5 lanes each way cite the removal of buildings to make it wider?

[cleverick]

I mean five lanes each way from Main North Rd to KWRoad.
And yes, bulldozing buildings to make way. It's what they do in America.

I'm being ironic and glad that the government doesn't just accommodate patterns, but tries to modify them to achieve a better social outcome.

Most of the time.

[Norman]

You would NEVER get the support to bulldoze buildings in North Adelaide, let alone making it a major thoroughfare.

[cleverick]

Lucky I don't want to then.
Are you assuming I want to?
I'm having a dig at the road-mad government who abandons public transport and seems to think that everyone has a taxpayer funded car just like them.

[SRW]

Did anyone ever find a link to that design competition being run by the ACC?

Et voilà:

Victoria Square / Tarndanyangga Community Ideas Competition

[Wayno]

the shortlist of designs for Vic Sq has been released!

Approx 10 pdf's are available from this AdelaideNow page ==> http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html

[AtD]

The wide variety and general quality of the submissions show that the ACC is managing this the wrong way. They need to decide what exactly they want, before designs are drawn u.

[Paulns]

They need to decide what exactly they want, before designs are drawn u.

Isn't that called a,"Design Brief?"

But anyway some of the designs are ok.
I know this would be controversial but part of me would love to see an Iconic world renowned 200+m tower in the middle of the square with its own tram stop, observation deck, office space, entertainment, restaurants, etc, etc... and possibly put the roads underground where they currantly are.. A bit out there and unrealistic I know!

[shiftaling]

Did anyone ever find a link to that design competition being run by the ACC?

Et voilà:

Victoria Square / Tarndanyangga Community Ideas Competition

Typical council website - "Entries can be viewed through the window off Pirie Street"

Would it be so hard to scan a hundred or so pieces of paper and put them up on the website? I mean, really

[Joely]

Most of the designs are extremely *yawn*. I still don't understand how some nice paving and grassed areas will attract people to the square. It might be nice to walk through on my way to work but I don't think it will do anything to make it a more lively place. One of the designs in particular I really loved, the first one with the sphere/ball thing. Though I'd hate to see that built in the square, the style of the design and the way it's been drawn has an awesome 1950s quality to it. Anyway, I aree with Paulns. A 200+ metre tower would be stunning for the square, and in turn, would encourage taller buildings to be proposed in the city. Pity that's highly unlikely to eventuate

[AtD]

Typical council website - "Entries can be viewed through the window off Pirie Street"

Would it be so hard to scan a hundred or so pieces of paper and put them up on the website? I mean, really

It reminds me of the process for Rundle Convergence. They had a wide range of plans on display in the Pirie Street office, and chose the least interesting and least ambitious. It's still a good project, but some of the plans on display were fantastic.

[Shuz]

Just having a look through the proposals now (and later) will update over time.

My opinions:

ESD009 is just shocking, the spherical ball is just a downscaled mimick of the Shanghai Oriental Pearl Tower spheres, not to mention we already have the Malls Balls. No more spherical obsessions please. The raised platform will only detract from the streetscape rather than enhance it, bceause it doesn't address accessibility issues very well. The information centre or whatever that thing is on the St. Xavier's lawns - god help us if anything were built on that green, I think its nice to have the open space between the square and the cathedral so to 'capture' its image.

ESD0016... have they gone absolutely mad? Removing traffic access from what is the CBD's 2nd busiest throughfare!? Who the hell would even walk the length of KWS all that way? The tram tracks will have to be entirely reconfigured... oh god its just a mish mash of plaza, trees, grass, absolutely no consistency whatsoever. There's no 'focus point', which will make it hard to elaborate the purpose of the place. Its the whitest of all white elephants.

ESD0018, wow I can just feel the sunburn from the reflecting heat with all those pavers around. This is not Europe, our climate does not harmonise well with the seemingly neverending expanse of paving around. It will become a sunspot, a very harsh tragic sunspot. Clearly the designers lack sense of imagination, hoping that the symmetry of the trees and pavers will create something unique... not! Looks like plans for someone's backyard, not for a major public square!

ESD0019. Finally a proposal thats good. Really good actually. I like the elevated focus of the square, whilst incorporating many feature elements that will enhance it - the amphitheatre, the differentiating aspects of each side, with the plaza and the park. The historical status of Queen Victoria's statue has been preserved, by maintaining her throne centrally to the square - creating a landmark in itself. The gardens surrounding the fountain are elegant, simple and natural, which will create a peaceful spot for passersby. The plaza, although small is usuable space for event tents and the such. The fact that looking down all four boulevards into the square to the Queen Victoria statue is just perfect - it reinvigorates a key icon and its history of the square, acting as a beacon of pride.

ESD0024. What... the... f***. No further comment.

USD0045. Hmmm, its okayish. I don't like the squiggly path and the extensive paving, although the fact that it incorporates the western edge as an expanded alfresco area and links it with the Central Markets is nice. Stand-alone suspended bridges are becoming all too common in this city (Riverfront, Marina) and I don't think one in Victoria Square will be needed, if ever used - especially with the amount of existing foot traffic accustomed to the current model. And wouldn't a bridge be a safety concern? (rock throwers, drunks, etc). One thing I am happy about is it relieves traffic conjestion with the elimination of the central lights and brings the two side roads into one.

USD0047. Reeks of vomit. Its a plan which has original Australian trees and grasses, so that it can look brown and ugly all year around. Clearly whoever designed it wants us to be the laughing stock of the country...

USD0080. Not that good... too much focus on traffic restrictions. I do like the multimedia cube and and extended Central Markets pavillion into the square, but thats all. The 'Flag of Nations' idea has been replicated too many times around the world... wouldn't be anything interesting, and please do not get me started on the idea of 'community gardens' in Adelaide's central square? Vegetable gardens are not something people want to see.

USD0054, another one that I like a lot. It's asymetrical, different but simple. Lots of lovely open space, pedestrian friendly areas. Has an events space, more alfresco areas and incorporates past history into its theme with the 'meeting circle'. Best option for traffic relief, with elimination of two sets of lights and converges the public spaces of Victoria Square and St. Xaviers. Is nice.

USD0081. Good golly, Miss Molly! By far the boldest and most daring of all proposals, and I like it a lot. The expanse of public space is to be commended for, particularly as it introduces a new level (dimension) to the space. Although I must admit, it replicates a lot of things Melbournian, the CityLink tunnel thing and all things Federation Square-like. Lots of screens which will enhance visual interest - just as Times Square does. If the people of Adelaide will accept this change with guts and courage, I welcome it vehemently.

To summarise, I'm favourable of proposals 0081 and 0019. I cast my vote on AdelaideNow for 0081, but results are in overwhelming favour (47%) for proposal 0019, which is really good.

[Norman]

I really like ESD 0019. It's simple, clean and very doable.

[Joely]

I can't believe I missed USD0081! WOW! This is what we need. Imagine driving across that arched bridge at night time passing the large screens and seeing all the people, lights and action below. We desparately need something daring like this. Turning that beautiful old domed courthouse back into a department store would work nicely too.