fabricator's Tonsley to Reynella (and beyond) railway

[monotonehell]

Aidan: on passenger rail less than 4% gradient is normal. 4 to 7% CAN be done in exceptional circumstances, but that means money and different rolling stock choices. Also as you increase gradient you reduce your maximum attainable speed due to the need to slow down -- ie safety reasons.

The rule of thumb is it's 4% or less for passenger rail. Highways usually go up to 6% gradient.

[fabricator]

My contact in Parliament was told by transport department engineers it isn't possible to climb that hill. I think that proves they haven't considered modern engineering methods, like tunnelling machines or subways. The extension will be electric from day one, so exhaust fumes aren't an issue.

It's a similar story with the Noarlunga line extension to Seaford: both the DTEI and PB alignments cost far more than they should because they're designed to freight specifications. Only it's sillier on the Seaford line, because the trains will be accelerating on the way down and decelerating on the way up!

Yes I read about the Seaford Meadows Station, and its grade issues. Trains will have to use brakes while accelerating out of the station, ouch.

The design of the lines to freight specifications is a new one to me though, although the plans were drawn up any years ago when the land way bought. So its really just Australin National era plans. The line to Lonsdale was originally just for freight (Oil and sand).

[fabricator]

A few random details that I've worked out since.

1. Cost of the few houses in the way, at current real estate prices its $10m or so, almost all of which is the area around Flinders Medical Center.
2. Approx 400 bus movements at the moment up/down Darlington via South Road/Southern Expressway, this is just the 721/722/725 buses which serve Reynella. Most of these are Articulated Buses as well and have been for years.
3. Basic site inspection of the Sturt Gorge Recreation Park, confirmed no damage to the creek itself or surrounding rock formations. Excavation work would be limited to areas higher up where it is a mixture of dirt and loose rock, and the rails would be obscured from the creek itself by the need to start the cuttings slightly back from the cliff edge to control run off and control dust.

[Aidan]

Fabricator -

I'd be interested to know what alternative alignments you've considered. Have you investigated the possibility of turning right (westwards) after crossing the Sturt? Or doing so earlier and avoiding the SGRP completely?

[fabricator]

The 3d model I created was used to determine which gully was already suitable, that is 1:45 or better grade. Hence why that particular route was chosen, the other gullies were simply too steep. Solutions involving tunneling between different gullies to get a shallower grade were tried, and proven to be unworkable.

The proposed escalated areas of the recreation park are man made re-vegetation, the original bush is further up the hill. In any case the access track build next to the track would serve a good double purpose as a walking trail. The trail through this area is rather unsafe, I almost ended up in the creek a few times, calling it a goat track is an insult as it would kill goats.

The only way to avoid the park entirely is to drill underneath it, even that is unlikely to solve the problem as that may cause damage on the surface anyway. Tunnel would be quite shallow and the ground is rather fragmented.

[Aidan]

As I said before, a ruling gradient of 1:45 is far too gentle for an electrified suburban railway - it's quite sensible to do double that when there's a clear advantage from doing so.

Anyway, I wasn't asking about other gullies, but rather the option of going into tunnel sooner.

And drilling underneath the park is not the only way to avoid it - how about crossing the Sturt downstream of the park and going into tunnel immediately, emerging near the main water pipe on the other side of Flagstaff Road?

[fabricator]

As I said before, a ruling gradient of 1:45 is far too gentle for an electrified suburban railway - it's quite sensible to do double that when there's a clear advantage from doing so.

Grades work in reverse you know, the smaller the second number the steeper the track, double would be 1:22.5 or 4.4%.

Worst grade in Adelaide is a short section of 1:35 2.8% between Seacliff and Marino stations. Belair has continuous 1:45 for about half its length, which already causes problems as the railcars don't really have enough Horse Power to go at full track speed in the hills (actually neither do most freight trains). Braking is another issue.

To make one line significantly steeper than anything currently in use, would result in the need to have special railcars just for that line, in order to keep to the timetable.

[Aidan]

As I said before, a ruling gradient of 1:45 is far too gentle for an electrified suburban railway - it's quite sensible to do double that when there's a clear advantage from doing so.

Grades work in reverse you know, the smaller the second number the steeper the track, double would be 1:22.5 or 4.4%.

Or 2.5° from horizontal. Not really very steep. It's steep enough to avoid when designing a railway to carry freight, but there's no realistic prospect of freight demand.

Worst grade in Adelaide is a short section of 1:35 2.8% between Seacliff and Marino stations. Belair has continuous 1:45 for about half its length, which already causes problems as the railcars don't really have enough Horse Power to go at full track speed in the hills (actually neither do most freight trains).

Why worry about what current railcars can do? We're getting new electric trains soon, and it makes sense to get high performance ones.

Braking is another issue.

The braking issue can easily be solved with trackbrakes if necessary. These also bring some other benefits: less trouble with leaves on the line, and much faster deceleration in an emergency situation.

To make one line significantly steeper than anything currently in use, would result in the need to have special railcars just for that line, in order to keep to the timetable.

As I said, we're getting new railcars anyway. As for the timetable, it hasn't even been written yet.

[Straze]

Fabricator i like your vision because it seems that you done your research and came up with a fresh idea that could work well for Adelaide, but instead of suggesting a big project that would take years to build why not just look at small projects. The tramline extension to North Terrace was small but effective.

[fabricator]

The point is the government have billions to spend, but no big rail projects.

Its better to do one thing well, than lots of things of average quality.

[fabricator]

The final report for the Environment Resources and Development Committee's inquiry into Public Transport is out.

http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Committ ... nsport.htm

Committee Recommendation 26
The Committee recommends that a transport planning study of the eastern
part of the City of Onkaparinga be undertaken to determine, inter alia,
whether improvement of public transport services in the area might benefit
from use of all or part of the former railway right-of-way between Reynella and
Huntfield Heights. The Committee also recommends that the railway right-of
way continue to be protected and used for recreational purposes until its
potential as a public transport route is determined.

Committee Recommendation 27
The Committee recommends that the government investigate the extension of
the Tonsley rail line and the development a TOD around Flinders Medical
Centre/Flinders University and Darlington.

Committee Recommendation 28
The Committee recommends that the government adopt as a primary
principle that all land reserved as potential transport corridors should have
ongoing protection.

[Straze]

fabricator if you want to find out whether its possible or any other members for that matter, this is just a handy tip - go on the Google Maps and get the map of the area and drag the street view icon to the place you want to have a look at you can actually see for self what obstacles are in the way like for a possible grade separation or level crossing across a roadway. Note that i have only found it to work if its near a street though, if you find out a way to go over land good luck.

[fabricator]

Screw Google Street View, nothing beats actually going down there to look at things directly. Which is what I did, after I sent my submission to the enquiry. All it did was confirm what I knew from the topographical maps, which is that its entirely possible. Took a couple of trips to cover all of the Tonsley/hills face area.

[HeapsGood]

Fabricator,

Could please post the pdf again, i'd love to take a look at it.

[fabricator]

Fabricator,

Could please post the pdf again, i'd love to take a look at it.

Afraid I don't have any place to host the file at the moment. If anyone wants a copy, PM me your email address.