Victoria Square: Not a place for congregating.

[cruel_world00]

I was walking through from the markets today to the GPO and looked at Victoria Square. I know for years and years we've all debated what should be done or what could be done with this area.

Amphitheatres, underpasses, meeting areas, look outs, diverted traffic etc etc etc.

Instead of thinking up a way to attract more people to gather here I had a different, potentially unpopular and maybe altogether crazy idea....

Why not cut our losses and instead of try and get to people to stay here and have events, bulldoze the place and build massive towers for residential and student living?

I know it's a little strange but why are we fighting the pull of Rundle Mall and the potential for the banks of the Torrens with another gathering area. Victoria Square isn't exactly a grand place to hang around regardless of what is there.

It would be a nice little injection of population into the city and hopefully we could invest in interested architecture and taller buildings to create something special in the area.

I haven't considered any of the factors of supply or demand in terms of city apartments but was trying to think out side the box, or square in this instance.

Just a thought anyway.


/end crazy idealism.

[Vee]

I was walking through from the markets today to the GPO and looked at Victoria Square. I know for years and years we've all debated what should be done or what could be done with this area.

Victoria Square has become a rather soulless, windswept transport hub, pedestrian thoroughfare with a magnificent fountain sculpture adding some potential in the northern section. The area opposite the Hilton serves the 'Tour Down Under' event very well and the open space provides a valuable vista to the many heritage buildings with rich histories and changing use - Law Courts, Post Office, Medina, Carnegie-Mellon, St Francis Xaviers Cathedral. The revamped and extended tramline is a bonus.

Add in the many historic statues, story of the Pie Cart, nearby Town Hall, new Science Institute (former Stock Exchange) and the fabulous Central Market, Chinatown and Gouger St. cafes and extend a little further to the Beehive Corner and incorporate some innovate signage to assist visitor/tourist interpretation. So many visitors find it difficult to find the Central Market!! This would be beneficial. A tunnel could eliminate some of the pedestrian, public transport, motor vehicle conflicts and connect up some of the pieces but it's expensive.

Others in this forum will come up with a range of ideas but not the crazy massive towers you suggest, borne out of frustration at lack of progress?
I'm all for higher densities in the city but not your 'solution'. Would love to see more student and affordable housing around the Central Market and surrounds. Also higher residential densities around the terraces - ideal adjoining open space which is largely wasted on a daytime population of office workers.

I would prefer planning and funds to go towards opening up the grounds of Government House, demolishing the walls (Gov.House could be another cultural museum) and connecting the North Terrace precinct to the Parade Ground, Festival Centre and Torrens precinct. This connected space has more potential for events, festivals and everyday congregation. Republicanism is sure to take hold in the next 5 plus years to make this possible.

Victoria Square - is it a lost cause for congregating?
Sadly, probably yes, except for those rare occasions like the 'Tour Down Under' village and some special events.

[cruel_world00]

I don't even know if I agree with what I suggested, but the idea did dawn on me today. It just seems like Adelaide has lost vision with what areas we want to utilise better. Unlike Fed Square (sorry for the comparison) which is right in the middle of the CBD, our areas seem to be spread out. Do we focus on upgrading all these various areas, or focus on one defining area and go from there.

I feel that Victoria Square could be a lost cause, but I hope it isn't. Although, with that being said, I don't feel like my alternative concept has a negative impact as it would bring permanent population into the heart of the city. More time should be spent on the other squares I feel (Hindmarsh, Light....) These squares are not in the middle of a major transport route of our CBD.

[adam_stuckey]

our areas seem to be spread out. Do we focus on upgrading all these various areas, or focus on one defining area and go from there.

Very true we need a few less a baskets for our eggs

[Will]

Victoria Square is not a lost cause. Indeed, I think it has a lot of potential.

It is imperative that Vitoria Square be retained as a public space.

However, sadly, at the moment, there is very little to do there or around the square. Furthermore, the fact that the square is surrounded by virtually office towers whose occupatns leave at 5:00PM does not promote all hour activities.

I think the ebst idea would be for the state government to move the State Administration Centre, the departments it has in Wkefield House and the Education Department to a new home, and sell those towers to develoeprs so that they can be converted into apartments.

Each of those buildings is pretty big, hence with such an initiative you could easily get more a 1000 new residents around Victoria Square.

[Splashmo]

We need open space like squares and parks in Adelaide. I couldn't think of a bigger waste of Victoria Square than putting student accommodation in the middle when we have an entire square mile of good land where that could work.

[Hindley Street Alley]

Perhaps the most used square in the city is Hindmarsh Square - particularly the north east and west corners. Why? ok there are a few reasons (proximity to rundle mall/street), but another reason I think is that these corners are part of the pedestrian 'freeway' - ie you don't have to cross any roads to get there if you are on foot...

So I thought about how to make Victoria Square accessable by foot without changing the setup of the roads (for simplicity). First idea was to build a footbridge/ wheelchair accessable bridge so people don't have to wait for cars... but the thought occurred to me that one fine point about Victoria Square is that there aren't alot of visual obstacles.. it's very open, this could be a strength.
Then I thought perhaps pedestrian tunnels to the square could allow people access to the square (or at least let people cross the square without having to wait at 2 or 3 sets of lights (which is a big downside for pedestrians in the area... it's simply a pain). A bit of imagination in the way it's done could make it really cool... - and before you all jump up and down in disgust at the thought of pedestrian tunnels, it goes without saying that they should be tasteful, innovative, safe and clean.

either way, freeing up the area for pedestrians will make an integral part of any plan to rejuvinate the square.

[Waewick]

Personally I think they should make one side manicured gardens as flash as possible sort of like the ones you see in European Casltes., keep it green but get some structure, the other, leave open like it is, one side to draw people to the square and the other to give them a space to congregate you just need to link them like some else has indicated.

I would also make the site water restriction free, it’s a public space build for everyone and it should be kept green with extravagant plants to keep it interesting and attact people out of their offices.

I realise that would get some people bitching and moaning, but yes the greater populace is more important than you.

[Hindley Street Alley]

Actually I don't mind the idea of restricting traffic to one side of the square...(even if we kept the east west road) it would free up the vast majority of the area into a much more pedestrian-friendly area... and nice gardens are always a plus, i like the ideas

[adam_stuckey]

What i think all the squares in Adelaide really need is a reason for people to go to them besides just sitting in the sun on a nice day. I don't know about everyone else but i can handle pushing a button and crossing a road but if there just a lawn and a fountain there i'm probably not going to bother.

We need music, outdoor bars and cafes maybe even activities for people to take part in during a lunch break like a game of boules or something and not just for a week to promote "community spirit" or "get active week" all the time (well at least when the weather is nice) One thing i loved was when the ashes were on in Australia in Hindmarsh square they set up a big screen for everyone to watch the game. They had caravans were you could get a drink and something to eat. That was brilliant!

The squares are great looking areas its just you can't really spend anymore then 30 mins there it just gets too boring...

[Hindley Street Alley]

I don't know about everyone else but i can handle pushing a button and crossing a road but if there just a lawn and a fountain there i'm probably not going to bother.

I see this is a backhanded attempt to put down my basic point (haha):

let people cross the square without having to wait at 2 or 3 sets of lights (which is a big downside for pedestrians in the area... it's simply a pain)

so I disagree on this point, but otherwise I thought your ideas were good, and I agree that many of these ideas would be good:

music, outdoor bars and cafes maybe even activities for people to take part in during a lunch break

forget one or the other, lets do both

[Wayno]

maybe even activities for people to take part in during a lunch break like a game of boules or something

You could bring your own boule, footy ball, soccer ball, frisbee. Why do others have to organise for you? and if others organised would you be prepared to pay for it? many would not...

[Straze]

I don't even know if I agree with what I suggested, but the idea did dawn on me today. It just seems like Adelaide has lost vision with what areas we want to utilise better. Unlike Fed Square (sorry for the comparison) which is right in the middle of the CBD, our areas seem to be spread out. Do we focus on upgrading all these various areas, or focus on one defining area and go from there.

I feel that Victoria Square could be a lost cause, but I hope it isn't. Although, with that being said, I don't feel like my alternative concept has a negative impact as it would bring permanent population into the heart of the city. More time should be spent on the other squares I feel (Hindmarsh, Light....) These squares are not in the middle of a major transport route of our CBD.

Do some research because your ideas are not all thought out, i was born and have lived in Adelaide all 18 years of my life and i appreciate the city in which i live. Apartments or buildings in the centre of Victoria Square would be silly and ugly. Colonel William Light was a great man with real vision who designed the city of Adelaide as a grid-based city
with surrounding parklands and many squares including the one named after him - Light Square. And Light Square and Hindmarsh Square as i know it is a important transport hub - the Adelaide O-Bahn and Adelaide Airport buses travel through these squares everyday.

[Aidan]

Is there any particular reason why you want people to congregate in Victoria Square? Or to stay more than 30 minutes there?

Adelaide does need more and better attractions, but that doesn't mean everything has to be turned into one.

[Wayno]

I was thinking about the psychology of why areas of the parklands are considered a waste of space. Maybe i'm waaay off track, but i believe it's simply because their purpose & meaning has not been communicated! We simply know them as 'The Parklands', 'X Square', etc which in itself means nothing. We are unsure whether they are complete or awaiting further development, to be used or just looked at, or simply exist to be looked through to the scenery beyond.

At a base level, it's human nature to categorise and assign purpose & meaning to everything, and once done we assign a 'name' that encapsulates the raison d'etre in a short usable term. Some segments of the parklands have succesfully gone through this process, while others have not.

Examples of areas with clear meaning/names include Botanic Gardens, Nth Adelaide Golf Links, and the Zoo. You can see how powerful it is to have meaning/names - these areas are implicitly excluded from derogatory comments about 'the parklands', almost as if they are physically separate to them. It's also easy to understand the psychology behind the acceptance of the above examples. They've been given purpose (via human built structures), have been well advertised, and are setup as destinations for play. Even if everyone does not like them, their purpose is clear, and their names reinforce that fact. More recently, the identity (and value) of Hindmarsh Square has started to become clarified - it's not seen as being such a wasted/unused space compared to other squares - why is that? just because it has new buildings surrounding it? and has some semi-decent public art? very interesting indeed...

Other squares and parkland segments (south & western areas) are yet to go through the above process. Victoria Park has also recently lost its identity (hopefully a transitional situation).

So here's the poser: must all squares/parklands be manicured and made into destinations full of human built structures (not necessarily buildings, perhaps landscaping)? Do all parkland areas need to be 'usable' space? what kind of dialogue must Adelaidian's enter into to have us accept and respect that large areas of our native parklands 'exist simply for the sake of having open space' and/or 'space that enables a distant vista'?

In my opinion, open space is quite an indulgence in these modern times, and especially in a western 'property mad' society. Such vast areas of open space could truly be a positive differentiator for Adelaide, but unfortunately it's effect is mostly wasted as of today. If we want to heal this rift we can't simply continue to call them 'the parklands' and leave it at that. Through our inaction we have allowed a ground swell of negative perception to build, and now the term 'parklands' has a negative meaning! A terrible situation indeed!

Thoughts?