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VIS: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:26 pm
by mooshie
not sure if this has been posed at all in some form of previous concept, but looks interesting-
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6000773056
SA's largest developer and the State Government have held secret talks to extend the Holdfast Shores Marina.

The Government yesterday confirmed a Monaco-style marina at Glenelg, servicing a high-speed, passenger-only ferry to Kangaroo Island, was being considered after several meetings with development mogul Con Makris.

Feasibility studies are being conducted by the Makris Group to extend the breakwater near Sammy's on the Marina and build a jetty to transfer passengers on and off the ferry.

The south side of the breakwater would be for large, private yachts to berth.

Mr Makris said investigations had also begun to find the right type of ferry, which would need to be custom-made to ensure it could successfully navigate Glenelg's low tide.

It is likely to be similar to that used to shuttle holidaymakers around the Greek Islands.

The fast ferry service is likely to shave about two hours from the current trip from Cape Jervis.

A government spokesman said representatives from the Office of Major Projects and Infrastructure have had several preliminary discussions with "potential operators".

"The State Government is willing to closely examine any viable proposal put forward," he said.

Mr Makris said no timeline has been set for the development and that the government had asked him to provide concept plans.

"The government will build the marina extension and we'll put in the money for it and for the boats," he said.

Mr Makris said the plans were the most advanced to date, after he first revealed his dream in 2004.

"Glenelg is the number one destination in Adelaide," he said.

"We'd like to see it developed further, like a Fremantle. If we have the boats lined up, it will look like Monaco there."

It is not the first time a ferry to KI has been attempted. Several unsuccessful attempts were made in the 1990s while, in 2006, Mr Makris partnered with SeaLink, which runs the current passenger/vehicle ferry to KI from Cape Jervis on the Fleurieu Peninsula, to try to run a catamaran service from Glenelg.

"Before, they were looking to use a catamaran; but you can't get it inside (the marina)," Mr Makris said.

"We've had to look at it in a different way, because taking cars is not going to work from here."

Meanwhile, the Makris Group is also in negotiations with high-end hotel chains, including the Hyatt and Hilton, to add a boutique hotel to the development of the former Le Cornu site in North Adelaide.

A spokesman for Planning Minister Paul Holloway confirmed last week the government was still considering an extension to the permit, which lapsed in September last year, for the $170 million apartment and retail precinct.

In 2007, the latest plan for 88 O'Connell St was fast-tracked by the State Government, after it took planning control from the Adelaide City Council and claimed it under major development status.

Mr Makris said the size and number of retail spaces and apartments would be altered to accommodate the boutique hotel.

There are no plans to increase the height of the development.

"We went to the market to see how to attract quality shops and we needed a drawcard to help," he said.

"You're not going to get the fashion designers if you don't have the high-end hotel."

Mr Makris said he did not believe the government would reject the proposed changes.

"Why would they knock back the Hyatt?" he said.

peuckerc@sundaymail.com.au
Image

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:57 pm
by AtD
Sounds very exciting, but it seems to be more of a vision than an actual proposal. I like the idea of KI ferries coming to Glenelg and giving Sealink a bit of competition.

There's supposed to be a ferry from York Peninsula to Eyre Peninsula starting this year some time. If this terminal is built, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Port Lincoln service trailed as there's already a fair amount of air traffic.

I've always thought it'd be cool to return the Glenelg Jetty to its former glory to enable cruise ships to stop there. It sure beats Outer Harbor.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:06 pm
by Xaragmata
The graphic in my print edition makes more sense - the L is an extension of the existing breakwater, the terminal is on the northern wall of the existing
breakwater in the channel, and the yacht berths still look unsafe for permanent moorings.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:15 pm
by Vee
AtD wrote:
I've always thought it'd be cool to return the Glenelg Jetty to its former glory to enable cruise ships to stop there. It sure beats Outer Harbor.
The Outer Harbor passenger terminal for cruise ships is sadly cringeworthy and offers a terrible first impression of our beautiful city for visitors. Viewed from the coast, it is sad and depressing and the signage looks uninspiring. I was shocked to see just how embarrassing it is when viewed from the perspective of visitors arriving by cruise ship. (Returning from an afternoon leisure trip)

I like the idea of a KI ferry terminal at Glenelg but not sure if it is viable, given the fate of the previous attempt to offer this service. Like Xaragmata, query the extra marine berths shown in the rough plan.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:45 pm
by Nort
AtD wrote: I've always thought it'd be cool to return the Glenelg Jetty to its former glory to enable cruise ships to stop there. It sure beats Outer Harbor.
Would the water be deep enough there for cruise ships? Would definitely be a great stopping point for tourists.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:07 pm
by Wayno
Vee wrote:The Outer Harbor passenger terminal for cruise ships is sadly cringeworthy and offers a terrible first impression of our beautiful city for visitors. Viewed from the coast, it is sad and depressing and the signage looks uninspiring. I was shocked to see just how embarrassing it is when viewed from the perspective of visitors arriving by cruise ship. (Returning from an afternoon leisure trip).
I agree Vee, although many of the world's most tourist-worthy cities have sad & depressing passenger terminals. It's a catch 22, have large cruise ships (and all support infrastructure) obliterate a vista appreciated by the locals, or disappoint cruise ship passengers by having them land in a less than beautiful environment.

I'm torn here, and I bet body parts there would be plenty of opposition to this idea.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:54 pm
by Will
This is a good idea, however I am not going to get excited as they've been talking about this since the 80's....

PRO Makris Group's 'Monaco style' Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:52 pm
by stumpjumper
SA's largest developer and the State Government have held secret talks to extend the Holdfast Shores Marina.

The Government yesterday confirmed a Monaco-style marina at Glenelg, servicing a high-speed, passenger-only ferry to Kangaroo Island, was being considered after several meetings with development mogul Con Makris.

Image

Feasibility studies are being conducted by the Makris Group to extend the breakwater near Sammy's on the Marina and build a jetty to transfer passengers on and off the ferry.

The south side of the breakwater would be for large, private yachts to berth.

Mr Makris said investigations had also begun to find the right type of ferry, which would need to be custom-made to ensure it could successfully navigate Glenelg's low tide.

It is likely to be similar to that used to shuttle holidaymakers around the Greek Islands.

The fast ferry service is likely to shave about two hours from the current trip from Cape Jervis.

A government spokesman said representatives from the Office of Major Projects and Infrastructure have had several preliminary discussions with "potential operators".

"The State Government is willing to closely examine any viable proposal put forward," he said.

Mr Makris said no timeline has been set for the development and that the government had asked him to provide concept plans.

"The government will build the marina extension and we'll put in the money for it and for the boats," he said.
This is worth watching, for a number of reasons.

The '2 hour time saving' would be relative to the 1 1/2 hour road trip to Cape Jervis and 40 minute crossing of Backstairs Passage on Sealink's ferry, which is now owned by local shareholders, mainly from Kangaroo Island.

The government risk would be the investment in the wharf and marina infrastructure, and presumably its maintenance. The government agreed to dredge, in perpetuity, the privately owned marina at Holdfast Shores. Presumable there would need to be custom infrastructure at Kangaroo Island, or modification of the existing but now unused facilities at either Kingscote or American River.

Makris' risk would be the lease of a suitable boat.

Ticket pricing would be crucial. A fast trip from Glenelg to KI (110kms) would cost a lot more for an operator than the trip from Cape Jervis to KI (20kms).

I wonder how the 'luxury yacht berths' on the weather side of the wharf will go?

It looks as though Major Project status is assured.

Re: PRO Makris Group's 'Monaco style' Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:12 am
by ricecrackers
thoughts go back to the infamous and doomed Jubilee Point project in '86
I think there might be some opposition to this one too

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:09 am
by fabricator
Its a bit of a moot point given the threats form the K.I. council to close down many tourist roads on the island due to the extremely limited road budget.

Hope this marina doesn't end up as another sand trap, like that one further north. Something not quite right about the design. :sly:

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:20 am
by Aidan
ISTR in the '90s when plans were announced to redevelop the Patawalonga, there were four competing plans and the one that featured a ferry terminal won... and all of it was built except the ferry terminal. But I don't think the commercial case for a ferry is likely to be that strong. It might work because the Cape Jervis ferry operators seem to be abusing their monopoly, but a Glenelg ferry would be competing with the much faster services from the nearby airport as well.

As for the Cruise ships, the more I think about it the more I like Ho Really's suggestion of developing Victor Harbor for them.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:28 am
by Will
The reason why previous Glenelg ferries have failed is because they do not allow people to take their cars to KI.

A car is essential if you are going to KI. If people are then forced to hire a car on KI, well then that defeats any cost saving that a Glenelg ferry would have.

Any Glenelg ferry needs to be able to take people's cars.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:20 pm
by muzzamo
Will wrote:Any Glenelg ferry needs to be able to take people's cars.

Only for local tourists.

Does anyone know what percentage of KI visitors are international tourists? These groups can be greeted with a connecting tour bus on the other side.

Re: Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:56 pm
by ozisnowman
The previous KI ferry from Glenelg failed to get Goverment subsidies and failed. If the business it generates for the State exceeds the price of subsiding it
it shouldnt have got scrapped. However i recall the Government was building the Wine Centre at the time and had little money to spare. I reckon if they
subsidised the KI ferry for 30 years it would have been a better investment than the Wine Centre which the then sold to Adelaide Uni for $1.

I went to KI with the old Glenelg ferry it was convenient. I wouldnt leave my car at Cape Jervois and i wouldnt pay the price to get it shipped across.
The problem with KI is the monopoly of the Ferry.

Re: PRO Makris Group's 'Monaco style' Glenelg ferry terminal

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:52 pm
by flat04
I would have thought that vehicle access would be needed to drop passengers off at the ferry. That's a long walk for the elderly who would make up a reasonable number of the users of this type of service.

Stumpy, sure would be a quick ferry trip if it can save 2 hours......

Can anyone remember why the fast service from Glenelg was cancelled back about 10 years ago? Was it the lack of marina for when the weather was a bit rough?