Yet another tram fantasy thread

[rhino]

Personally, I think that we should be focussing on getting people into and out of the CBD, rather than worrying about transporting them within the CBD. With the majority of the popular CBD destinations being in the northern half of the CBD, you can probably walk between them in less than 20mins. There doesnt seem the necessity for a loop at this stage. And for the cost and effort of building the lines within the CBD (considering existing services, traffic management, community engagement, etc), and considering it will be a free service and has potential to cause extra traffic congestion, I dont think you would be getting value for money.

You would not be able to cover the cost of the service from non-existant fares, but I don't think that a city loop service would be intended to recoup it's cost in fares. It's what it would do for the city - make it a more amennable place to live, bringing in more residents, which will breathe more life into the CBD, which will, in turn, bring more people in from the suburbs to spend an evening eating and drinking, or a day shopping, or just enjoying being in the city. Having a tram service bringing people in from the suburbs to a CBD that largely closes down at 6:30pm is not going to cover it's costs either.

[cruel_world00]

Before we get too ahead of ourselves. Let's fix the abomination that is the City South tram stops.

[ml69]

Personally, I think that we should be focussing on getting people into and out of the CBD, rather than worrying about transporting them within the CBD. With the majority of the popular CBD destinations being in the northern half of the CBD, you can probably walk between them in less than 20mins. There doesnt seem the necessity for a loop at this stage. And for the cost and effort of building the lines within the CBD (considering existing services, traffic management, community engagement, etc), and considering it will be a free service and has potential to cause extra traffic congestion, I dont think you would be getting value for money.

Victorious, I do agree with you to some extent that there is no pressing necessity for a tram loop at this stage, and most likely wouldn't get value for money at this stage.

However I think we need a big picture perspective of what a tram loop investment could do for the Adelaide CBD, particularly in relation to creating a catalyst for a massive step change in residential development. In many cities around the world, a tramline investment has been been the catalyst for huge amounts of private investment many times the original investment in the tram, and also led to the re-generation of entire neighbourhoods.

Is this a potential outcome we would like to see in the Adelaide CBD? Definitely! We have already seen the new investment on the southern part of King William St due to the tram extension. A large influx of new residents in the CBD has the benefits of making existing CBD businesses more viable and increasing vitality in the city.

[ml69]

You would not be able to cover the cost of the service from non-existant fares, but I don't think that a city loop service would be intended to recoup it's cost in fares. It's what it would do for the city - make it a more amennable place to live, bringing in more residents, which will breathe more life into the CBD, which will, in turn, bring more people in from the suburbs to spend an evening eating and drinking, or a day shopping, or just enjoying being in the city. Having a tram service bringing people in from the suburbs to a CBD that largely closes down at 6:30pm is not going to cover it's costs either.

Sorry Rhino I replied Victorious80 without reading your reply first, where you've basically already said what I thought already!!

[[Shuz]]

Hear, hear.

[HeapsGood]

Want the future tram line going down Grote/Wakefield St as per Victorious's thread.

City loop should be on west tce.

[[Shuz]]

What is with people wanting trams down Grote and Wakefield!? it's the City's only true East-West street throughfare, to be able to go from SDBD to Kensington Road in one straight line. Trams have no place to interfere with that.

[victorious80]

whichever east-west route it takes, ideally the line should be an independent tram line in the centre of the road (similar to north tce). that way it would minimise interfering with existing traffic, and avoid being held up itself by excessive traffic. i think a tram line would lose its appeal and efficiency if it was constrained by traffic congestion - it would more or less become another bus.

it seems that Grote-Wakefield has enough space to accomplish this. if there are other routes that can accomplish this, then they should definitely be considered.

ps great to see so many people passionate about light rail in this city!

[victorious80]

Personally, I think that we should be focussing on getting people into and out of the CBD, rather than worrying about transporting them within the CBD. With the majority of the popular CBD destinations being in the northern half of the CBD, you can probably walk between them in less than 20mins. There doesnt seem the necessity for a loop at this stage. And for the cost and effort of building the lines within the CBD (considering existing services, traffic management, community engagement, etc), and considering it will be a free service and has potential to cause extra traffic congestion, I dont think you would be getting value for money.

You would not be able to cover the cost of the service from non-existant fares, but I don't think that a city loop service would be intended to recoup it's cost in fares. It's what it would do for the city - make it a more amennable place to live, bringing in more residents, which will breathe more life into the CBD, which will, in turn, bring more people in from the suburbs to spend an evening eating and drinking, or a day shopping, or just enjoying being in the city. Having a tram service bringing people in from the suburbs to a CBD that largely closes down at 6:30pm is not going to cover it's costs either.

i completely agree that more light rail in the city will invigorate it. and i also believe that having easy access to the cbd for non-cbd residents will also invigorate the cbd. at this point in time, i see more benefit in creating an east-west route first to facilitate the easy and attrative transport of non-cbd residents into the cbd. this has a few benefits - decreases traffic within cbd, encourages suburban residents to visit cbd for shopping, dinner, etc. it also invigorates areas of adelaide outside the cbd. this for me is a critical point. as much as i want to see our cbd as the highlight of our beautiful city, i also think there should be other areas in adelaide that are also appealing to visit / go out / dine / etc. the more little "pockets" of life outside the cbd, the more variety people have for a day/night out. look at glenelg - it has genuine attraction for both tourists and locals alike. and this can be attributed to some extent by the tramline.

i would definitely like a cbd loop at some stage, but we need to be sure that it would give the greatest benefit to the city for the money being spent.

but these are just my thoughts, and i am by no means a transport expert!

[HeapsGood]

What is with people wanting trams down Grote and Wakefield!? it's the City's only true East-West street throughfare, to be able to go from SDBD to Kensington Road in one straight line. Trams have no place to interfere with that.

View Victorious's tram thread, then you will see the light.

[dbl96]

people have complained there is not enough room on gouger street. Why not turn the bit between KW road and morphet street into a mall with trams. It will encourage further development of the area as a market and outdoor dining district.

[[Shuz]]

[Shuz] wrote:
If the Government's worst-kept secret about extending the tram through the City's West End down Morphett St and Gouger St, goes ahead shortly, it would be an excellent location to have a tram stop there, combined with the taxi rank.

Just to follow on from this; stations also at The Precinct - Franklin/Morphett Streets, Chinatown - Gouger Street/Moonta Street, and Law Courts - Gouger Street/Mill Street.

Thoughts?

[ml69]

[Shuz] wrote:
If the Government's worst-kept secret about extending the tram through the City's West End down Morphett St and Gouger St, goes ahead shortly, it would be an excellent location to have a tram stop there, combined with the taxi rank.

Just to follow on from this; stations also at The Precinct - Franklin/Morphett Streets, Chinatown - Gouger Street/Moonta Street, and Law Courts - Gouger Street/Mill Street.

Thoughts?

IMO I don't think we need so many stops in the West End, we just need them where people are
most likely to use them. I think stops at Chinatown/Moonta St and at Pirie St/Light Sq is sufficient.

Law courts are serviced by Vic Sq stop nearby, and Hindley St serviced by City West and West Tce stops on North Tce.

[Wayno]

so many tram vision threads - which one to use. Here will do:

From the city messenger

PLANS for a tram loop through the West End have fallen off the State Government’s agenda despite predictions it would drive billions of investment dollars into the city.

Traders groups have reignited their calls for a western tram loop following a Property Council forecast the project would prompt billions of dollars worth of development in its first decade.

But Premier Jay Weatherill has not started planning the extension or committed funds to extending the tramline despite then Premier Mike Rann last year saying the project was “going to happen”.

The loop would run from North Tce along Morphett or Gray streets toward Light Square and down Gouger or Grote streets to Victoria Square.

Property Council SA executive director Nathan Paine said a tramline extension would drive billions of mixed use development across the West End.

“A city tram loop is critical whether it is just through the West End or around the CBD as a whole,” Mr Paine said.

“The development that has occurred down the southern end of King William St is an indicator of what we would see if we got a tramline extension.”

The City Messenger first revealed plans for a tramline extension through the West End in 2010 when then Lord Mayor Michael Harbison vowed to lobby the State and Federal governments.

Mr Rann told reporters last May that he wanted to transform the current tramline into a city loop, saying his vision was “very realistic, it’s going to happen”.

Grote Business Precinct president Terry Peacock agreed a tram loop in the west would drive development and he urged the government to get to work.

“It is disappointing that there is not an actual plan that is being built on,” Mr Peacock said.

“It would be really useful if there was a definite yes or no so businesses and residents can assess what is suitable for them.”

Central Market Traders Association president Franz Knoll said a tramline extension would attract more visitors to the market.

“If we are talking about revitalising the city, those type of things are fundamental,” Mr Knoll said.

Adelaide West End Association president Andrew Wallace wanted to see pedestrian links upgraded by improving streetscapes and enticing a greater mix of tenants.

“If it (tramline) is a way of conveniently getting people into parts of the West End that they would not normally walk to then great,” Mr Wallace said.

“But we should get people walking through the city than catching a tram around it.

A spokeswoman for Premier Jay Weatherill said he was interested in “all projects that will revitalise the city” but no tram extensions were budgeted.