Adelaide Bashing - Strategies to Combat

[Dazzeland]

In Adelaide's defence, that is a really old photo. It predates the Cc development as well as many other skyline-changing developments if you could get a more recent photo and still tell me it looks like dog shit..

[MessiahAndrw]

Yeh, righto champ.

Because this,
IMG
Or the Hollywood sign on the hill doesn't pop into your mind..or Venice Beach..

The Hollywood sign, yes, but I'd bet few would have any idea that that skyline was LA.

Right about that. New York, Chicago, Sydney, Beijing - recognizable by their skyline. LA is widely known for it's sprawl (though they're trying to change that lately) and despite being the U.S.'s 2nd largest city, it is a huge world away from the skyscraper cities of Chicago and NYC - that's why most people associate it with the suburbs, Hollywood, freeways.

Would anybody recognize the skyline of Barcelona, Stockholm, Athens, Osaka? Being traditional cities, they've mostly built 'in' instead of 'up'. Most of the city is densly built 4-6 story buildings, so most of the skyline tend to look like mush.


Those cities tend to stand out on their cultural icons, rather than what they look like from afar. Show a shot of Westminster Abbey, Big Ben, or the London Eye and people immediately recognize London. But the London skyline?

Not many unless you've had past exposure to the city and are able to recognize certain buildings.

More international folks will recognize the Sydney Oprah House over the Sydney skyline (with the harbor bridge and Opera House clipped out).

Nobody recognizes the Copenhagen skyline, but most people would recognize this famous canal scene;


Adelaide is a nice place, but we haven't joined the rush to build up, and frankly, that makes us stand out. So rather than complain about the our skyline (I bet the residents of Copenhagen couldn't care less that they don't have tall skyscrapers) and think building up will solve all of our problems, let's try to be unique and take what we have;

[MessiahAndrw]

The truth is, Adelaide's charm is at street level, especially at our festivals. Unfortunately, this isn't really able to translate through photographs. We can debate what Adelaide's current image should be until the cows come home. But the truth is, from a tourist (domestic or international) perspective, Adelaide looks exactly the same as it has for as long as most people can remember. I'll even admit, sometimes in deducing the age of a skyline photo, the easiest way is to look at the signage on Westpac House...which most people know as the State Bank/Santos anyway.

Changing the "postcard image" of Adelaide would do wonders for our psyche and reputation. To be honest, I don't think it matters what gets built, so long as it draws attention away from some of our worst buildings that dominate our skyline and other people's perceptions.

Our city looks like a pile of dog shit. I dare you to tell me it doesn't.

I disagree. Adelaide is a wonderful city.
Take Houston:


But Houston at street level:


Like most mid-western cities, there's very little street life or vibrancy. Cities can have great monuments (the St. Louis arch) but when I walked around St. Louis on a weekday, right at noon, the streets were completely empty (no cars, no pedestrians.) I walked past perhaps 10 people in 10 minute. There were no shops, just blank cement walls that ran the length of the building/block.

There's more to a city than just having tall buildings..

Adelaide is great, and I think we really need to focus on our street life. Australia currently lacks a traditional urban environment;



..highly walkable, narrow streets, interesting at street level.

Melbourne comes close, there are some fantastic laneways, and I think that is where Adelaide could really stand out.

Take Stockholm;



They look like great, vibrant, walkable places. No one is judging them on their lack of tall buildings (nothing over 6 stories in those shots), and that is part of their charm.

I think Adelaide really needs to take what it has, and work on its public spaces (our CBD streets and parks). That's why I support projects such as the "laneway activations". We need to focus on our public spaces.

Currently, 'public space' in hypertrophic cities (which includes Australian cities) tend to end up looking the same. Western-looking building + pavement + road for cars + pavement + western-looking building:


Adelaide has the ability to stand out. We need to focus on creating iconic public places. A modern version of these;



As demand for urban living increase, we'll see a desire for great public places, and I do think it may mean rethinking our streets to allow our 170 year old grid to grow into a more organic form to accommodate for this demand of new public spaces.

[Matt]

The comparison between Adelaide and European cities doesn't work for me.

Places like Barcelona and Copenhagen aren't CBD-centric and don't have skylines dominated by office buildings.

Adelaide is and does (regardless of height) so I don't see it as a fair comparison.

Adelaide isn't a sprawling city as such (like Barca or LA) - suburbs, yes, but obviously the hub of Adelaide itself is concentrated by the ring of parkland, which, for the most part, is office and apartment towers.

If there wasn't the CBD and the pyramid of buildings, fine, but while that's the case, people will always compare our skyline to the Melbournes, Perths and Sydneys rather than the flatter cities of Europe.

I don't see it as a competition, myself, but a modern tower or two would help to reinforce the impression that Adelaide's moving forward - which it clearly is. I get back every 18 months or so and can't believe how much it changes from one trip to the next.
The next will be one of the biggest changes with Adelaide Oval, Convention Centre, the footbridge, SAMHRI, Vic Square and Rundle Mall all near completion.

To me, it's just a shame that despite all of this, the skyline remains under the shadow of Westpac - a tower that went up while I was in nappies.

[MessiahAndrw]

The comparison between Adelaide and European cities doesn't work for me.

I agree on many things. We're not going to be a dense European city with a historical renaissance core, because we're a lot younger.

We actually have fairly heavy pedestrian traffic in the northern end of the CBD compared to most new-world western cities, and we should be proud of that. I think we should focus on creating our own style (not American, not European) - a great human-centric CBD (expand Rundle Mall down Hinley Street) and great public spaces (the new Victoria Square, just wished you could step out of the buildings around it into the square, rather it being surrounded by a ring of roads).

I don't see it as a competition, myself, but a modern tower or two would help to reinforce the impression that Adelaide's moving forward - which it clearly is. I get back every 18 months or so and can't believe how much it changes from one trip to the next.
The next will be one of the biggest changes with Adelaide Oval, Convention Centre, the footbridge, SAMHRI, Vic Square and Rundle Mall all near completion.

I agree, these are all great things that will modernize and make our city more interesting.

[Matt]

Agree with your points re: Rundle Mall and Vic Square being more pedestrian friendly.

In that sense, something like Copenhagen would be great. They do 'pedestrian-focused' so, so well.

Their "Rundle Mall" is a web of paved streets full of shops/cafes/restaurants/bars and is always packed full of pedestrians and the occasional cyclist.

A large events square leads onto the shopping area without the interruption of major roads.

Would love to see the laneways of Adelaide replicate something like this and for Rundle Mall to spill out towards North Terrace and Hindley in similar fashion.

[JAKJ]

The comparison between Adelaide and European cities doesn't work for me.

I agree on many things. We're not going to be a dense European city with a historical renaissance core, because we're a lot younger.

We actually have fairly heavy pedestrian traffic in the northern end of the CBD compared to most new-world western cities, and we should be proud of that. I think we should focus on creating our own style (not American, not European) - a great human-centric CBD (expand Rundle Mall down Hinley Street) and great public spaces (the new Victoria Square, just wished you could step out of the buildings around it into the square, rather it being surrounded by a ring of roads).

I don't see it as a competition, myself, but a modern tower or two would help to reinforce the impression that Adelaide's moving forward - which it clearly is. I get back every 18 months or so and can't believe how much it changes from one trip to the next.
The next will be one of the biggest changes with Adelaide Oval, Convention Centre, the footbridge, SAMHRI, Vic Square and Rundle Mall all near completion.

I agree, these are all great things that will modernize and make our city more interesting.

Also encouraging greater numbers of residents in the CBD and improving the city on the street level (e.g. riverfront development and activation) is far more important then some 150 metre tower. Unless the city is New York, and maybe Shanghai or Dubai, people don't travel to see skylines, and pictures of pretty tall buildings will not entice them to come.

In terms of tourism, the reality is that people will travel to Adelaide for festivals, wine (food?) and nature. Adelaide is not and will not be a significant enough a city in the near future to draw people based on the city itself. If you look at successful, modern smaller cities around the world (like Austin, TX), focusing on a niche such as festivals/ arts is the only way you are going to raise a global profile.

Further, I think the significant investment in health research (including a fantastic building as a bonus!) is great as well and shows significant foresight in what will be an ever more important and expanding global industry.

[ml69]

Agree with your points re: Rundle Mall and Vic Square being more pedestrian friendly.

In that sense, something like Copenhagen would be great. They do 'pedestrian-focused' so, so well.

Their "Rundle Mall" is a web of paved streets full of shops/cafes/restaurants/bars and is always packed full of pedestrians and the occasional cyclist.

A large events square leads onto the shopping area without the interruption of major roads.

Would love to see the laneways of Adelaide replicate something like this and for Rundle Mall to spill out towards North Terrace and Hindley in similar fashion.

Our role model should be Melbourne in this regard (role model, not copy of Melbourne). Similar cultural context and grid layout of CBD).

I think we are moving in the right direction (albeit slowly). Rundle Mall and Vic Sq revamps will help, but the 3 key ingredients are:

1. much greater CBD residential population
2. small bars/cafes etc
3. strategic laneway activation, starting with those off Rundle St, Rundle Mall and Hindley St

Further to this, a city tram loop and redeveloped riverbank park as envisioned in the recently released master plan will further increase residential demand in the city.

If we get this right, it will further enhance our status as one of the world's most liveable cities. There's such huge potential for this city to be an awesome place in 20 years time, and I think the great initiatives the state government has taken over the past few years will help to achieve that.

[Mants]

I don't feel the need to repeat myself again. It is obvious that Adelaide will never have a great skyline when compared to NYC, Shanghai, etc. And it is probably true to suggest that nobody will really come here to admire the skyline itself. However, I honestly believe that drawing attention away from Westpac House is vital for so many reasons. Not just from an aesthetic point of view, but the building itself represents a period of our history which is many ways, was the birthplace of all of the current negativity we are faced with. Very few South Australian adults would be unaware of the State Bank collapse and having the building which was their head office looming unchallenged above the CBD for the past few decades is just another reason for people to hold on to this negativity.

I am not suggesting in any way whatsoever that Adelaide has not progressed as a city. I love Adelaide and I think right now is a very exciting time to live here. But I think we need to eliminate every argument which suggests that nothing has changed here in years.

[monotonehell]

So knock it down?

That would solve all the arguments.

[Mants]

So knock it down?

That would solve all the arguments.

i was going to suggest that

[crawf]

Flying into Adelaide, you look out the window and see what...? Does the CBD look like it's a place you really want to go to?

One of the unique things about flying into Adelaide is you get a snapshot of a dense CBD, Adelaide Oval and the riverbank precinct with the backdrop of the parklands and Mt Lofty ranges in just one shot.. In the right light, it can look simply stunning. I flew into Adelaide a couple of months ago at night, and the city looked absolutely amazing being all lit up and gave the impression of being a happening city.

Though I do agree, that despite all these fantastic developments taking place in city, our skyline still looks like a relic from the the 1980s. Thankfully now that our height limits have been brought into the 20th century, hopefully a new tallest isn't far away!

Though in saying this, I think some people are being over critical towards our skyline. Sure it's far from amazing but there are still some grand angles, in particular King William Road. Personally I love going past Brougham Gardens and seeing the CBD skyline appear behind St Peters cathedral, then travelling down passing the emerging Adelaide Oval stadium and riverbank precinct with the city skyline in the background. After all these years living in Adelaide, it still gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Another good one is again King William Street but from the southern parklands. Port Road (near the Gaol) is also emerging from being an ugly angle to a very impressive one. Right now it reminds you of how much Adelaide is seriously changing at the moment and will look fantastic by end of this decade.

But there are some major shockers and show how much the city skyline has not changed in decades. The ugliest side is the west, eg Adelaide Airport, West Terrace, James Congdon Drive etc.

So knock it down?

That would solve all the arguments.

Westpac House isn't a bad looking building IMO, and from certain angles it actually looks pretty darn good. Plus if we didn't have this building, our skyline would be more comparable with Hobart, Darwin or Townsville. The stumpy side of Westpac is the worst angle.

[rev]

"I want this building to be instantly recognisable around the world and feature on postcards and memorabilia promoting Sydney - that's how you attract international tourists, create jobs and put Sydney on the map," Mr Packer said.

Like I've been saying..image is important! And a city's main image is it's skyline.
This quote is from James Packer on the new Sydney casino.

[monotonehell]

"I want this building to be instantly recognisable around the world and feature on postcards and memorabilia promoting Sydney - that's how you attract international tourists, create jobs and put Sydney on the map," Mr Packer said.

Like I've been saying..image is important! And a city's main image is it's skyline.
This quote is from James Packer on the new Sydney casino.

Okay, but hang on a minute. Is Packer saying that Sydney is not on the map?

[claybro]

"I want this building to be instantly recognisable around the world and feature on postcards and memorabilia promoting Sydney - that's how you attract international tourists, create jobs and put Sydney on the map," Mr Packer said.

Like I've been saying..image is important! And a city's main image is it's skyline.
This quote is from James Packer on the new Sydney casino.

Okay, but hang on a minute. Is Packer saying that Sydney is not on the map?

Unfortunately, Sydney's reputation as a "world city" has been rapidly falling off in recent years, and nothing of international note has been built in Sydney probably since Sydney Tower. Even locations such as Darling Harbour are now decades old and looking tired. Sydney has been in decline since the Olympics except for its booming immigrant population. Melbourne is currently outshining Sydney in the recent building stakes let alone OS destinations. Weather we like it or not, a skyline is vital to identify a city in the absence of geographical features and this has been Adelaide's problem. No harbour, no great river, no feature mountains, and with a skyline, where the tallest building is over 20 years old and not very tall at that.