Southern Expressway Stage 3

[Aidan]

What exactly is your objection here? Do you think it would adversely affect the quality of the wine. The quantity of wine produced? Are you worried about the boundaries of the region? Or access to wineries?

Aidan, you confuse me here, and not for the first time. You seem to be questioning why someone would object to a freeway through a key wine region, and yet you yourself question a freeway through industrialised areas of the western suburbs on the grounds of it disrupting communities, local access and pollution?

Although I do have those concerns, they're not my main objections to the building of a freeway next to South Road. My main objections are construction time (we could grade separate the junctions of South Road fairly quickly, whereas installing a freeway would take decades), cost (the extra money could be better spent elsewhere) and adding to car dependency (as it would make driving a car quicker than taking a train for a lot of people, plus it will almost certainly result in less money available for public transport improvements).

I regard this possible Southern Expressway extension as a long term project - a much lower priority than duplicating and grade separating Victor Harbor Road. Less urgent than extending the Northern Expressway to Outer Harbour (and yes I do mean direct - although the Northern Connector is also something on the long list of infrastructure I'd rate as more urgent than this). By the time it's built (if it ever is) cost will be less of an obstacle and vehicles will be far less polluting. And as it doesn't go anywhere near residential areas, disrupting communities will not be a problem.

McLaren Vale is indeed a wine producing region, but that doesn't mean there need to be as many grapes grown as possible (we've already seen a glut) nor even that the area of land devoted to growing them is the limiting factor. The limited availability of water is likely to be a bigger obstacle, and is the main reason why almonds are no longer grown there.

[[Shuz]]

What exactly is your objection here? Do you think it would adversely affect the quality of the wine. The quantity of wine produced? Are you worried about the boundaries of the region? Or access to wineries?

...than extending the Northern Expressway to Outer Harbour (and yes I do mean direct - although the Northern Connector is also something on the long list of infrastructure I'd rate as more urgent than this). By the time it's built (if it ever is) cost will be less of an obstacle and vehicles will be far less polluting...

Could you please clarify/explain. The Northern Connector is essentially an extension of the Northern Expressway.

[Aidan]

...than extending the Northern Expressway to Outer Harbour (and yes I do mean direct - although the Northern Connector is also something on the long list of infrastructure I'd rate as more urgent than this). By the time it's built (if it ever is) cost will be less of an obstacle and vehicles will be far less polluting...

Could you please clarify/explain. The Northern Connector is essentially an extension of the Northern Expressway.

But not direct to Outer Harbour.

So to clarify, I meant westwards to Outer Harbour. The Northern Connector is southwards to the PREXY and South Road.

Do you not think a bridge over (or tunnel under) Port River, saving trucks many kilometres, should be a higher priority than a bridge over the Onkaparinga Gorge?

[[Shuz]]

You mean like doing a 'West Gate' and building a bridge across the Outer Harbour channel and Barker Inlet from Pelican Point to St Kilda and then join up to the NEXY from there?

If so - I fully support this idea, and definetly believe it should be of higher priority than the Connector.

[claybro]

You mean like doing a 'West Gate' and building a bridge across the Outer Harbour channel and Barker Inlet from Pelican Point to St Kilda and then join up to the NEXY from there?

If so - I fully support this idea, and definetly believe it should be of higher priority than the Connector.

Shuz, a connection direct from the NEXY to OH cannot be a higher priority than the Northern Connector, because without the Northern Connector, the bridge would be next to useless for freight coming from the south. It is unlikely such an expensive undertaking would occur just to satisfy freight from the North direct to Outer Harbour. Without the connector it would be quicker for trucks from the South/South east to use South Road/Superway, Port River Expressway and Victoria road. With the advent of the connector, it will then be possible to link freight from the south of this point to a new OH bridge and would probably then be viable. I still believe however a duplication of the Victor Harbor road with associated uninterrupted junctions connecting to the Southern Expressway would be a higher priority, although probably based more on the existing routes.

[rhino]

Aesthetics aside, would this hypothetical new highway link to Outer Harbor need to bridge Barker Inlet with a Westgate-style structure? How tall are the boats (masts?) that use Barker Inlet? Would a low Florida Keys style bridge suffice, with a high span over a smaller gap to let tall boats through?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/tm/dest_ ... 68x312.jpg

Claybro, even once this hypothetical new highway link is built, it would still probably be quicker fro freight from the south to access Outer Harbor via the Port River Expressway and Victoria Road. It is a long way up to St Kilda, to then turn SW and head back to Outer Harbor.

[Aidan]

You mean like doing a 'West Gate' and building a bridge across the Outer Harbour channel and Barker Inlet from Pelican Point to St Kilda and then join up to the NEXY from there?

If so - I fully support this idea, and definetly believe it should be of higher priority than the Connector.

Shuz, a connection direct from the NEXY to OH cannot be a higher priority than the Northern Connector, because without the Northern Connector, the bridge would be next to useless for freight coming from the south.

That's not a reason not to do it, it's merely a disadvantage. But much of our manufacturing is in the outer northern suburbs, and because it would be a much quicker route, users would be willing to pay high tolls - whereas from the south, even with the Connector it will only be slightly faster, so the toll would have to be set much lower for it to be of much use.

[HeapsGood]

I think this is a fantastic idea, but other things will take priority so it's probably 25-35 years away.