Adelaide Airport rail link

[Omicron]

Hey there folks won't you lend an ear, I have a business proposal that you're a wantin' to hear!
*plays music*

The ring came off my pudding can!

[monotonehell]

I have a new mantra: Cost and/or culturally justify or perish

That's a reasonable mantra.

[Ho Really]

Fellas forget monorails and trams running down streets*. The vision here is for a dedicated fast light rail service between the city and the airport. There won't be stops in between except maybe at Mile End railway station or the Keswick Interstate Rail Terminal depending on the route taken. If Keswick is included (which may be the best option since it will cater for more users) the service will be for those using the Airport and the interstate trains (and possibly some regional ones as well...who knows?).

This is not a pie-in-the-sky idea, it's a project that should be considered for the next 5 to 10 years. If Adelaide wants a larger population, traffic through Adelaide Airport will increase substantially, and that is not just local population but also tourists. I am hoping that our rail system now is upgraded and made more efficient and that housing densities are raised in the inner metro area, especially around the main suburban hubs serviced by rail (and possibly future tram services).

If Keswick is considered I would like to see suburban trains and interstate trains use the same station (I've said this before). That would mean remodelling the station to something iconic (on the lines of Southern Cross Station on Spencer Street, but better). The idea would also include access to Trans Adelaide buses on an upper level between Richmond Road and Edwards Park (old netball courts) on ANZAC Highway. This would turn Keswick into a bus-rail interchange. Of course the whole area around Keswick (including the barracks) would need to be redeveloped and revitalised, more people should work and live there.

Cheers

* Trams on Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive would be too slow (especially during peak hour). They are also not ideal for carrying luggage.

[Wayno]

<snip>
Trams on Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive would be too slow (especially during peak hour). They are also not ideal for carrying luggage.

exactly! especially the luggage concern...

[bm7500]

Sorry, but i remain unconvinced. Would need to see a financial cost/benefit analysis i suppose...

When I was in Europe, almost everyone went to the Interstate Train Terminal (in the case of Frankfurt) or the Airport train station towards the city centre (Stuttgart). The trains had luggage racks where they could store their bags during the 25 minute trip from the Main Station to the Airport station.

From: http://germany-travel.suite101.com/arti ... rt_airport

Stuttgart Airport is easiest reach from downtown by S-Bahn commuter train. S-Bahn S2 and S-Bahn S3 make the journey from the Main Station (Hauptbahnhof) to the airport (Flughafen) in around 25 minutes. These trains operate from around 5 am to just after midnight with trains running from once every 10 minutes to at least every 30 minutes.

Plans are well developed to make train travel to Stuttgart Airport more efficient. A new tunnel will reduce travel time from the airport to Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof (Main Station) to just 8 minutes. Long-distance, including Inter-City-Express (ICE), trains will eventually stop at a new station at Stuttgart Airport. However, realizing these plans is still some years away.

Stuttgart Airport is still only the 6th largest in Germany, making it comparable to Adelaide.

I flew into Stuttgart airport 3 weeks ago and i wish we knew that we could catch the S-Bahn from the airport. Instead we were taken on a high speed mad ride in a BMW taxi to our hotel. I had to pull my fingernails out of the dash when we arrived

On my trip we also went through Changi (Singapore), Heathrow (London), Munich, Orly (Paris), Charles De Gaulle (Paris), Chipol (Amsterdam), Tegel (Berlin), Hamburg & Narita (Tokyo) airports. All of these airports were serviced by either train or light rail services. Some of them even had driverless carriages that transported you to nearby terminals.

Whilst i was over there i travelled on the S-Bahn, U-Bahn, Regional Trains but my fave was the ICE trains, 250Km/h, yeah!

[monotonehell]

I flew into Stuttgart airport 3 weeks ago and i wish we knew that we could catch the S-Bahn from the airport. Instead we were taken on a high speed mad ride in a BMW taxi to our hotel. I had to pull my fingernails out of the dash when we arrived

On my trip we also went through Changi (Singapore), Heathrow (London), Munich, Orly (Paris), Charles De Gaulle (Paris), Chipol (Amsterdam), Tegel (Berlin), Hamburg & Narita (Tokyo) airports. All of these airports were serviced by either train or light rail services. Some of them even had driverless carriages that transported you to nearby terminals.

Whilst i was over there i travelled on the S-Bahn, U-Bahn, Regional Trains but my fave was the ICE trains, 250Km/h, yeah!

I've also travelled a bit and seen the different kinds of inter- and intra-terminal PT. So I'm with you in your enthusiasm for something that works well and services the airport.

The current Jetbuses are okay, as a stop gap until we get something clean, efficient, quick and appropriate. The economics that force a service to be shared by local commuters is unfortunate (for the Airport to CBD run, it's appropriate for other destinations from the airport). Transadelaide's current policy of trying to pack as many commuters as possible onto services makes the whole luggage issue a sticking point.

Fellas forget monorails and trams running down streets... Trams on Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive would be too slow (especially during peak hour). They are also not ideal for carrying luggage.

Now you've given a reason why trams down the roads are not appropriate, and I agree, those corridors are far too narrow to send trams down, the Jetbuses are often held up in traffic as it its. But, you've not stated why we should forget a monorail. Monorails are elevated above the street and would be a non-stop service from CBD to the Airport. I'd say that cost would be a inhibiting factor, any other reasons why we should forget it?

[Ho Really]

Fellas forget monorails and trams running down streets... Trams on Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive would be too slow (especially during peak hour). They are also not ideal for carrying luggage.

Now you've given a reason why trams down the roads are not appropriate, and I agree, those corridors are far too narrow to send trams down, the Jetbuses are often held up in traffic as it its. But, you've not stated why we should forget a monorail. Monorails are elevated above the street and would be a non-stop service from CBD to the Airport. I'd say that cost would be a inhibiting factor, any other reasons why we should forget it?

It's not a light rail system that can be integrated or expanded into what we already have or will have (overhead electrification, tram lines, standard gauge). They would also invade privacy if implemented in the corridor I suggested.

Cheers

[monotonehell]

Fellas forget monorails and trams running down streets... Trams on Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive would be too slow (especially during peak hour). They are also not ideal for carrying luggage.

Now you've given a reason why trams down the roads are not appropriate, and I agree, those corridors are far too narrow to send trams down, the Jetbuses are often held up in traffic as it its. But, you've not stated why we should forget a monorail. Monorails are elevated above the street and would be a non-stop service from CBD to the Airport. I'd say that cost would be a inhibiting factor, any other reasons why we should forget it?

It’s not a light rail system that can be integrated or expanded into what we already have or will have (overhead electrification, tram lines, standard gauge). They would also invade privacy if implemented in the corridor I suggested.

Cheers

The corridor you suggested (over the drain?) is directly behind a lot of people's backyards and would lead to justified NIMBYism. I'm also troubled at the idea of building on top of a drain. Several sections are very narrow. I don't think it's a viable right of way. That's why I started looking for an alternative route and the old corridor plus the quieter part of Richmond Road jumped out at me. AHH!

If you don't like a monorail (should I do the musical number again?) then as I said it can be a tram. I can see the advantage of being able to run routes directly from potential tram destinations to the airport, but do you think that's likely?

Another potential route is turning West from the Glenelg line on Greenhill Road and straight down Richmond Road to the airport. It might be a little messy around the Keswick bridge area. But would be able to interface with the southern rail lines there.

[Omicron]

The very best of luck attempting to secure part of the old Glenelg rail corridor for conversion into a tramline/monorail.

[James Renfrey]

A glaring need, easily and cheaply fixed, is to erect a substantial bus stop shelter and seating outside the terminal.

The airport has been in operation for some time now, and it is just not good enough to have arriving passengers and their luggage exposed to the weather while waiting for buses, which give quite a good service from Glenelg through the CBD and out to the northern suburbs via the O-Bahn with many pickup and set down points en route. This service is better and much cheaper than Melbourne's Sky Bus shuttles.

It might surprise many to know that the Keswick Rail Passenger Terminal since its upgrade is very much more comfortable and user friendly (once you get there) than Spencer Street's fancy new terminal, and the new Central Bus Terminal is likewise a more attractive place than its Melbourne counterpart which still has portable site buildings acting as ticket offices with toilets and other facilities a good distance away in the rail terminal.

Incidentally, Henley Beach and Burbridge Roads both carried double tram tracks for very many years, the trams along the latter turning into Marion Road and terminating at Richmond Road.

[monotonehell]

Incidentally, Henley Beach and Burbridge Roads both carried double tram tracks for very many years, the trams along the latter turning into Marion Road and terminating at Richmond Road.

Jawohl! As did Rundle Street (Kent Town*) and many other streets before we switched to buses. You can still see the old tram berm running from Grenfell Street across the parklands to Rundle Street (KT).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Adel ... _1950s.png

I think it's time Kent Town got their own street names, I'm sick of having to specify it all the time

[Cruise]

Hey there folks won't you lend an ear, I have a business proposal that you're a wantin' to hear!
*plays music*


Instead of a smelly tram
(yuck who wants that?)
how about a nice shiny monorail track?

It works in Anaheim and Vegas.
Walt Disney gave it to us!

The suspended rail would go along,
An old rail route that is long gone...


*music stops*
But if your budget wont stretch to a monorail.

I s.u.p.p.o.s.e. we could make it a tram instead,
(that's why the right of way is illustrated)


The route's not completely new, but the drain is in everybody's back yard, where as this route goes past mostly industry.

[Ho Really]

The corridor you suggested (over the drain?) is directly behind a lot of people's backyards and would lead to justified NIMBYism.

Well, that can't be avoided anywhere in Adelaide can it? I have already suggested some solutions. Higher soundproof fences and beautification (tree and shrubbery) on the boundaries.

I'm also troubled at the idea of building on top of a drain. Several sections are very narrow.

There's no problem here. Many creeks and drains all over Adelaide have been covered. Land can always be acquired if there are narrow sections, but as far as I know there aren't. The link to the airport would have two tracks, but if that was to be impractical a single track would do to Mile End or Keswick. From there two tracks could be used.

I don't think it's a viable right of way. That's why I started looking for an alternative route and the old corridor plus the quieter part of Richmond Road jumped out at me. AHH!

Richmond Road is not much different than Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive. Richmond Road does get less traffic as you get closer to the Airport but you are looking at heavier commercial vehicles and you have no guarantee there won't be increases in traffic when more industry opens on the fringe of the Airport.

If you don't like a monorail (should I do the musical number again?) then as I said it can be a tram. I can see the advantage of being able to run routes directly from potential tram destinations to the airport, but do you think that's likely?

The monorail is out of the question. It won't integrate. It would be costly to build all the way into the city. It would be OK only if it did a short section between the Airport and Mile End/Keswick, but it can't be high overhead in the residential areas. The problem is when passengers get to those stations they'd have to change to suburban rail, taxis or buses. The tram option is a last resort, it has a couple of drawbacks, but not completely out of the equation. You could have an express tram to the Airport with better luggage space. Unfortunately such a service would be hampered by the slower suburban trams that do all the stops. That's why a dedicated service is better.

Another potential route is turning West from the Glenelg line on Greenhill Road and straight down Richmond Road to the airport. It might be a little messy around the Keswick bridge area. But would be able to interface with the southern rail lines there.

Interfacing with Keswick is fine, however I'm not too keen on the last portion of track on Airport land passing close to the runway. I know it will run outside of the (security) service road, but will it be OK safety-wise?

Cheers

[monotonehell]

The corridor you suggested (over the drain?) is directly behind a lot of people's backyards and would lead to justified NIMBYism.

Well, that can’t be avoided anywhere in Adelaide can it? I have already suggested some solutions. Higher soundproof fences and beautification (tree and shrubbery) on the boundaries.

It can be avoided by taking a route through more industrial areas or similar. The drain is literally in people's residential back yards. Can't get much more NIMBY that that. There's two very tight sections (I'll post more in detail later) where there might be room for a single track and sound walls, but that would mean a very plain almost subway like trip for commuters. Very boring scenery wise (if that matters).

Richmond Road is not much different than Henley Beach Road or Sir Donald Bradman Drive. Richmond Road does get less traffic as you get closer to the Airport but you are looking at heavier commercial vehicles and you have no guarantee there won’t be increases in traffic when more industry opens on the fringe of the Airport.

See the research on traffic below.

The monorail is out of the question. It won’t integrate. It would be costly to build all the way into the city. It would be OK only if it did a short section between the Airport and Mile End/Keswick, but it can’t be high overhead in the residential areas. The problem is when passengers get to those stations they’d have to change to suburban rail, taxis or buses. The tram option is a last resort, it has a couple of drawbacks, but not completely out of the equation. You could have an express tram to the Airport with better luggage space. Unfortunately such a service would be hampered by the slower suburban trams that do all the stops. That’s why a dedicated service is better.

I'm confused here, which kind of service are you advocating?

Interfacing with Keswick is fine, however I’m not too keen on the last portion of track on Airport land passing close to the runway. I know it will run outside of the (security) service road, but will it be OK safety-wise?

Should be fine, Tapley's Hill Road is a similar distance inside the glide path on the NW-SE approach. Also the drain route would enter the apron at A similar point.

[monotonehell]

Let's look at this in more detail
This is just a start, I suggest we examine all the options, and possibly introduce other options if any can be thought of. First let's examine route aside from the decision of what transport method (Light Rail, Heavy Rail, Mono Rail, Towel Rail.... whatever). I don't intend this to become an adversarial debate, let's try to examine the challenges and advantages of each proposal and work through each with an open mind.

I can keep editing this post as we get more information or ideas.

Traffic conditions
First I had a look at the street surfaces involved and their traffic...

The five options that I've seen so far are overlayed, with the total potential traffic printed next to T1. The sections where a track would need to share space with road are indicated with a red dashed line. Conversely the sections where the track has the opportunity to run down a median or off road have their respective traffic volumes crossed with a red line. These crossed out sections have not been included in the totals. Nor have I included any volumes inside the parklands.

Henley Beach Road
Route
A potential track along this route could make use of the median down the middle of Airport Road, but then would compete with traffic along Henley Beach Road (HBR), the Bakewell Underpass and and either along Glover Ave into the CBD; or parallel to the Heavy Rail line's right of way to Adelaide station. (There is the potential for it to run along some of the parklands along Glover instead of sharing road)

Challenges
Bakewell Underpass might need to be adapted to accommodate tracks?
Traffic volumes on HBR are large and the road is limited to a 2 lanes most of the way.
Would need to share road space with motor traffic.
more?

Advantages
more?

Sir Donald Bradman Drive
Route
A direct route competing with traffic along Sir Donald Bradman Drive (DBD) either into the CBD or along the Heavy Rail Line's right of way to Adelaide Station.

Challenges
Traffic volumes on DBD are large and the road is limited to a 2 lanes most of the way, with regularly congested intersections at Marion Road and Bagot Ave (possibly also South Road?)
more?

Advantages
more?

The Richmond Drain
Route
Ideal route not completely identified - generally making use of the drain's path through Richmond as a potential right of way. Possibly meeting with Keswick Rail Terminal.

Challenges
Two sections of the drain are narrow with established residential building either side.
The first narrow section lies between the Airport's apron and Marion Road...


The next part is wider, with an access road, however the interface with Marion Road changes alignment. As does the interface with Brooker Ave...


The final residential section lies along a very narrow stretch between Brooker Ave and Milner Road, again with residential buildings either side...


The last part of the route across the area near the ACC's London Road depot needs to be identified...


Would require building over the drain and the consideration/acquisition of local residents' properties.

more?

Advantages
Link between Airport, Keswick Rail Terminal and CBD would increase patronage and provide value to those connecting directly to cross country rail services.
Route does not traverse the length of any roads and therefore is not at the mercy of traffic conditions.
more?

Old Glenelg right of way / Richmond Road
Route
Skirting the Airport apron (skirting apron ) along the quieter mostly industrial part of Richmond Road, following the old right of way that runs parallel to Deacon Ave, mostly off the road or along the medians of the roads, to Bakewell Underpass and either along Glover to the CBD or along the Heavy Rail's right of way to Adelaide Rail Station.

Challenges
Shares 2Km of Richmond Road with traffic.
Around six intersections (three major) along the old right of way route need to be reconfigured to allow the passing services.
more?

Advantages
Interacts with substantially less traffic that the other road routes.
Parts of the route are aesthetically pleasing (especially the recently landscaped areas along the old right of way)
more?

Greenhill Road / Richmond Road
Route
Following the same route as the Old Glenelg right of way / Richmond Road plan but continues along Richmond road to Keswick Terminal and parallel to Greenhill road along the edge of the Southern parklands connecting with the Glenelg Tramline and into the CBD.

Challenges
Shares roadway with traffic.
Need to determine a route to interface with Keswick Terminal


more?

Advantages
Link between Airport, Keswick Rail Terminal and CBD would increase patronage and provide value to those connecting directly to cross country rail services.
Utilises existing Glenelg Tram way down King William Street into CBD.
more?





(This post still under construction - please feel free to make contributions)