Adelaide Airport rail link

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Ho Really
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#61 Post by Ho Really » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:45 pm

rhino wrote:I was sceptical when you first posted it, but, having looked at a map and thought about it for a couple of days, I like it. I would make it a dedicated service, with only one stop, on a flyover above KRPT/Keswick Station on the way into the city. The stop at Keswick should be a Mawson Lakes type modern, integrated covered interchange with escalators or lifts down to each of the stations. From there I would be linking it into the west end tram loop along Grote Street.
Music to my ears rhino. I think this or the next government should look at a proposal seriously. It would be the next step for the Adelaide Airport to be recognised everywhere. A major hotel should also be in that plan down at the airport.

Cheers

P.S. I would prefer (as you said) dedicated. Linking to the tram loop is a 50-50 proposition.
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#62 Post by AtD » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:11 pm

Just out of curiosity, how successful have the Brisbane and Sydney airport links been? I remember reading somewhere the PPP that built the Sydney link collapsed and has since been taken over by a major bank. You have to pay a hefty fee just for getting off at those stations, on top of your normal fare.

I'm sure someone like AG knows better. :D

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#63 Post by AG » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:02 pm

AtD wrote:Just out of curiosity, how successful have the Brisbane and Sydney airport links been? I remember reading somewhere the PPP that built the Sydney link collapsed and has since been taken over by a major bank. You have to pay a hefty fee just for getting off at those stations, on top of your normal fare.

I'm sure someone like AG knows better. :D
The Sydney and Brisbane Airport rail links have come up with quite different performances since they were opened to traffic in 2000 and 2001 respectively. Even with lower passenger numbers at Brisbane Airport, the rail link to it has been more successful than the Sydney Airport link. The Brisbane Airport Line was funded by a small number of businesses including Macquarie Bank and ABN AMRO under a BOOT scheme. The cost of one way travel from the Brisbane CBD to Brisbane Airport is $13, for a distance of about 15km, and the service permanently runs limited express to Brisbane Airport (stops only at Eagle Junction north of the main city stations and Bowen Hills). It's quite competitive compared to other forms of transport leading into the airport now, as the roads leading in and out of the airport have been suffering from congestion in recent times, hence the planning and commencement of the new Gateway Motorway upgrade and new Airport Link leading from inner northern Brisbane. The train line also has quite quick travel times to the Gold Coast as most trains from Brisbane Airport run right through to the Gold Coast as express services. It operated at a loss for a few years after opening, partly due to lower than expected passenger numbers resulting from 911, but has been operating with a profit since 2005.

The Sydney Airport rail link is operated differently to the Brisbane Airport link. Kingsford Smith Airport is a lot closer to the Sydney CBD than the Brisbane Airport is to the Brisbane CBD (less than 10km). A trip from Central to the Domestic Terminal costs about $13-14 IIRC, but the trip is quite slow as all airport train services are always all station services, and passengers to the airport compete for space with normal suburban commuters continuing through to the East Hills line. The four train stations on the Airport Link (Green Square, Mascot, Domestic Terminal and International Terminal) have an extra charge on top of them called a GateFare, a charge simply for passing through the turnstiles at the train stations. It's not very competitive, partly due to the high price for such a slow service, and also heavy competition from the bus and taxi services serving Kingsford Smith Airport. Also the M5 East Motorway and Southern Cross Drive makes travel times by car significantly quicker than by train. Westpac now owns the Airport Link.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#64 Post by Wilfy 2007 » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:58 pm

Ho Really wrote:
rhino wrote:I was sceptical when you first posted it, but, having looked at a map and thought about it for a couple of days, I like it. I would make it a dedicated service, with only one stop, on a flyover above KRPT/Keswick Station on the way into the city. The stop at Keswick should be a Mawson Lakes type modern, integrated covered interchange with escalators or lifts down to each of the stations. From there I would be linking it into the west end tram loop along Grote Street.
Music to my ears rhino. I think this or the next government should look at a proposal seriously. It would be the next step for the Adelaide Airport to be recognised everywhere. A major hotel should also be in that plan down at the airport.

Cheers

P.S. I would prefer (as you said) dedicated. Linking to the tram loop is a 50-50 proposition.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Drain goes along Ralph Street in West Richmond, Craig Street in Richmond, Albert Street in Hilton and Scotland Road mile end south.

Which route would it take from Mile End South, would it join up to West Terrace, or would it go to the Keswick terminal with as is suggested by Rhino a Mawson Lakes style terminal, giving the Keswick Terminal its long awaited upgrade then thru the parkland and up Grote street to join in at Victoria Square.

How would it join the Adelaide International Airport? Under the runway maybe.
Guys I love the ideas you have come up with so far, you reckon it could be pulled off.
Let us know if you have any more ideas.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#65 Post by muzzamo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:00 pm

I find the airport link to be quicker than by car, particularly in peak hour, but all the hotels that i stay at in Sydney are very close to Wynyard :-)

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#66 Post by Ho Really » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:19 am

Wilfy 2007 wrote:HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Drain goes along Ralph Street in West Richmond, Craig Street in Richmond, Albert Street in Hilton and Scotland Road mile end south.

Which route would it take from Mile End South, would it join up to West Terrace, or would it go to the Keswick terminal with as is suggested by Rhino a Mawson Lakes style terminal, giving the Keswick Terminal its long awaited upgrade then thru the parkland and up Grote street to join in at Victoria Square.

How would it join the Adelaide International Airport? Under the runway maybe.
Guys I love the ideas you have come up with so far, you reckon it could be pulled off.
Let us know if you have any more ideas.
It would be nice if it connected with the Keswick Interstate Terminal, however that's not an easy proposition. There's no clear path in that direction. A corridor would have to be acquired among the industrial buildings. The drain continues south but the alignment is awkward. The best option is to head north along the South Road connector (Congdon Drive) up the westside of the Santos Stadium and then to the Mile End station. Another option is to turn right along the Bunnings and ETSA Park carparks on the southside of Sir Donald Bradman Drive and then join the rail corridor. There's a possibility the line could go south to Keswick, but I think that is doubling back. There are other options but they require undergrounding. And there's plenty of those options if one wanted to take them (in various directions).

As for the Airport side, there won't be any undergrounding under the runway, there's no need. The track(s) would be above ground and would snake around the edge of Export Park and end up either at the old International Terminal or outside the new T1 Arrival/Departure, in a terminus above the carpark.

Cheers
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#67 Post by adam73837 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:43 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Wilfy 2007 wrote:HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Drain goes along Ralph Street in West Richmond, Craig Street in Richmond, Albert Street in Hilton and Scotland Road mile end south.

Which route would it take from Mile End South, would it join up to West Terrace, or would it go to the Keswick terminal with as is suggested by Rhino a Mawson Lakes style terminal, giving the Keswick Terminal its long awaited upgrade then thru the parkland and up Grote street to join in at Victoria Square.

How would it join the Adelaide International Airport? Under the runway maybe.
Guys I love the ideas you have come up with so far, you reckon it could be pulled off.
Let us know if you have any more ideas.
It would be nice if it connected with the Keswick Interstate Terminal, however that's not an easy proposition. There's no clear path in that direction. A corridor would have to be acquired among the industrial buildings. The drain continues south but the alignment is awkward. The best option is to head north along the South Road connector (Congdon Drive) up the westside of the Santos Stadium and then to the Mile End station. Another option is to turn right along the Bunnings and ETSA Park carparks on the southside of Sir Donald Bradman Drive and then join the rail corridor. There's a possibility the line could go south to Keswick, but I think that is doubling back. There are other options but they require undergrounding. And there's plenty of those options if one wanted to take them (in various directions).

As for the Airport side, there won't be any undergrounding under the runway, there's no need. The track(s) would be above ground and would snake around the edge of Export Park and end up either at the old International Terminal or outside the new T1 Arrival/Departure, in a terminus above the carpark.

Cheers
Brilliant plan! I especially like the part about the Terminus next to T1. If it were to have a skyway connecting it to the big departure hall between the front doors and the security checkpoints, it would be a brilliant service for people coming to the airport. As a suggestion, what if there was one station at the Departures Hall and one station at the Arrivals Hall? (See diagram below)
Airport_Tramline.jpg
Airport_Tramline.jpg (18.17 KiB) Viewed 2526 times
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#68 Post by Ho Really » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:01 am

adam73837 wrote:Brilliant plan! I especially like the part about the Terminus next to T1. If it were to have a skyway connecting it to the big departure hall between the front doors and the security checkpoints, it would be a brilliant service for people coming to the airport. As a suggestion, what if there was one station at the Departures Hall and one station at the Arrivals Hall? (See diagram below)
Airport_Tramline.jpg
Yes, the light rail terminus will be in between T1 and the carpark. The terminus will be one level only at Departures. My idea will also include a multi-storey covered carpark instead of the ground level one we currently have. The proposed hotel will also be on part of the ground level carpark. Skyways will connect T1, light rail terminus, carpark and Hotel.

Cheers
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#69 Post by monotonehell » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:06 pm

Hey there folks won't you lend an ear, I have a business proposal that you're a wantin' to hear!
*plays music*
Image

Instead of a smelly tram
(yuck who wants that?)
how about a nice shiny monorail track?

It works in Anaheim and Vegas.
Walt Disney gave it to us!

The suspended rail would go along,
An old rail route that is long gone...
Image

*music stops*
But if your budget wont stretch to a monorail.

I s.u.p.p.o.s.e. we could make it a tram instead,
(that's why the right of way is illustrated)


The route's not completely new, but the drain is in everybody's back yard, where as this route goes past mostly industry.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#70 Post by Wayno » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:25 pm

sorry to be a party pooper - but who would patron the airport tram? surely local adelaide people would get little benefit from such infrastructure (apart from those who live along the line and work in the city).

I really can't imagine tourists and interstate business travellers diligently using the tram. Personally, i can't think of anything more horrid after a long flight than lugging all my bags on public transport, only to find i'm not being dropped exactly where i want to be and having to walk further at the other end! The city is sooo close and a taxi only costs a few bucks.

I like the idea of a tramline down deacon avenue though - but don't turn onto Richmond Rd. Keep going straight!
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#71 Post by monotonehell » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:33 pm

Wayno wrote:sorry to be a party pooper - but who would patron the airport tram? surely local adelaide people would get little benefit from such infrastructure (apart from those who live along the line and work in the city).

I really can't imagine tourists and interstate business travellers diligently using the tram. Personally, i can't think of anything more horrid after a long flight than lugging all my bags on public transport, only to find i'm not being dropped exactly where i want to be and having to walk further at the other end! The city is sooo close and a taxi only costs a few bucks.
Yes I had similar thoughts. To make it economically viable it must be shared with regular commuters. BUT seeing the back packers and etc on the Jetbuses, air travellers do use it, and being crammed into a ridgid jetbus with a load of sweaty local commuters is horrid (for both us and them). Which made me think that a dedicated service would be nice. Nice but expensive.

But I want a monorail! *has tanty*
Wayno wrote:I like the idea of a tramline down deacon avenue though - but don't turn onto Richmond Rd. Keep going straight!
That would be totally redundant as you'd end up about 50metres from the existing Glenelg Tram :lol:
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#72 Post by Norman » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:51 pm

Wayno wrote:sorry to be a party pooper - but who would patron the airport tram? surely local adelaide people would get little benefit from such infrastructure (apart from those who live along the line and work in the city).

I really can't imagine tourists and interstate business travellers diligently using the tram. Personally, i can't think of anything more horrid after a long flight than lugging all my bags on public transport, only to find i'm not being dropped exactly where i want to be and having to walk further at the other end! The city is sooo close and a taxi only costs a few bucks.

I like the idea of a tramline down deacon avenue though - but don't turn onto Richmond Rd. Keep going straight!
Wayno, an airport link would serve enough people if it's done properly. For example, it could also service other areas, such as Henley Beach Road. This would still make the line worthwhile.

And there are some businesspeople or backpackers that don't want the expense of a Taxi ($20+) when they can use a tram, which costs $4.10. This is especially the case for frequent flyers in Australia. You're not going to be tired after a 1 hour flight from Melbourne after staying just the 1 or 2 nights.

These are the type of people that would use something like an Airport Link.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#73 Post by Wayno » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:00 pm

Norman wrote:
Wayno wrote:sorry to be a party pooper - but who would patron the airport tram? surely local adelaide people would get little benefit from such infrastructure (apart from those who live along the line and work in the city).

I really can't imagine tourists and interstate business travellers diligently using the tram. Personally, i can't think of anything more horrid after a long flight than lugging all my bags on public transport, only to find i'm not being dropped exactly where i want to be and having to walk further at the other end! The city is sooo close and a taxi only costs a few bucks.

I like the idea of a tramline down deacon avenue though - but don't turn onto Richmond Rd. Keep going straight!
Wayno, an airport link would serve enough people if it's done properly. For example, it could also service other areas, such as Henley Beach Road. This would still make the line worthwhile.

And there are some businesspeople or backpackers that don't want the expense of a Taxi ($20+) when they can use a tram, which costs $4.10. This is especially the case for frequent flyers in Australia. You're not going to be tired after a 1 hour flight from Melbourne after staying just the 1 or 2 nights.

These are the type of people that would use something like an Airport Link.
Sorry, but i remain unconvinced. Would need to see a financial cost/benefit analysis i suppose...
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#74 Post by Norman » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:20 pm

Wayno wrote:Sorry, but i remain unconvinced. Would need to see a financial cost/benefit analysis i suppose...
When I was in Europe, almost everyone went to the Interstate Train Terminal (in the case of Frankfurt) or the Airport train station towards the city centre (Stuttgart). The trains had luggage racks where they could store their bags during the 25 minute trip from the Main Station to the Airport station.

From: http://germany-travel.suite101.com/arti ... rt_airport
Stuttgart Airport is easiest reach from downtown by S-Bahn commuter train. S-Bahn S2 and S-Bahn S3 make the journey from the Main Station (Hauptbahnhof) to the airport (Flughafen) in around 25 minutes. These trains operate from around 5 am to just after midnight with trains running from once every 10 minutes to at least every 30 minutes.

Plans are well developed to make train travel to Stuttgart Airport more efficient. A new tunnel will reduce travel time from the airport to Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof (Main Station) to just 8 minutes. Long-distance, including Inter-City-Express (ICE), trains will eventually stop at a new station at Stuttgart Airport. However, realizing these plans is still some years away.
Stuttgart Airport is still only the 6th largest in Germany, making it comparable to Adelaide.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#75 Post by Wayno » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:54 pm

Stuttgart is a different country with different culture (and given the size of germany probably has quite a centralised population, but i stand to be corrected on this last count). I've spent chunks of time in Europe and people don't think twice about jumping on PT over there. Here it will take a looooong time to get half way close to that attitude.

I realise this is a "Vision & Suggestion" thread, and i don't want to inhibit the brainstorming as it provides true value, but the modus-operandum for many S-A members when questioned about the viability of their ideas is to say things like; "well other cities half-way around the world do it", or "of course it makes sense", or my favourite "don't question me - i know i'm right" :)...Not quite a strong enough argument in my opinion.

I have a new mantra: Cost and/or culturally justify or perish :)
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