Adelaide Airport rail link

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Omicron
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#91 Post by Omicron » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:33 am

That's a very well researched post you have there, Mr. Hell. From a practical perspective, if the intent of the link is to ensure travel to and from the airport with minimal interruption (in other words, the opposite function to that of the tram's course down Jetty Rd, for example), then either the drain option or the Richmond Road option fit this intent best.

With that said, I think that the tram running down either Sir Don Drive or Henley Beach Rd would be quite aesthetically pleasing, but as you rightly point out, the limitations of space for rail-based public transport, buses, cars and trucks all on roads that function as main thoroughfares into the CBD would, I imagine, cause quite significant congestion especially given the assumed high frequency of airport transfers. Jetty Rd. shows how quite narrow streets carrying relatively high volumes of traffic can handle trams down their centre (and I imagine there are many examples of this in Melbourne, too), but the reciprocal of that is increased travelling time over shorter distances. Ideally speaking, I'd like Sir Don Drive or Henley Beach Rd. to be wider than they are, and have the tram running down the centre like King William St., but that isn't feasible.

We then have to ask ourselves the point of making a public transport service available that offers approximately the same travelling time as a JetBus, with the same issues of congestion on busy CBD approach roads. It doesn't really make sense to spend money on a new service that won't offer a distinct travel-time or comfort advantage over existing services, if the intent is an airport/city link (as opposed to a service for the suburbs of Lockleys, Hilton, Cowandilla etc. in their entirety). Therefore, the drain and Richmond Rd. options come into play more strongly.

I suspect there would be difficulties with the drain option - there are certainly examples of successful construction over drains, but I seem to recall quite a ruckus over the apparent lack of preparedness of the drain and stormwater system across the western suburbs in the event of a significant flood. Would it be possible for what appears to be quite a narrow channel to handle both upgraded drainage systems, as well as some form of rail-based transport system? I agree, too, that this option passes perilously close to the backyards of residents in many places.

In the context of the Richmond Rd. option, it has some of the advantages of the drain option (utilising open land rather than existing roadspace), and travels along areas already popularised by businesses, which in turn minimises the impact on residential areas. This route also passes by the Mawson TAFE, I believe, which could justify a stop there, but does that then defeat the purpose of our speedy airport/city link by diverting far enough away from a direct route that it saves no more time than just heading straight down a busy Henley Beach Rd?

As mentioned previously, of course, if the focus shifts towards usage by the suburbs between the airport and the CBD, then the routes along already busy thoroughfares become slightly more desirable to take advantages of areas with a thriving population of businesses and residences alike. Similarly, if high volumes of traffic currently use Sir Don Drive to get into town, might it be easier to convince people to use a light-rail option instead if it heads down this road of which a majority are familiar as a route into town, rather than through open-space areas located further away from where people are used to interacting with some form of personal or public transportation?

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#92 Post by Shuz » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:09 am

There is two other options, not yet explored, that may I suggest?

In the event should a Port Adelaide tram corridor eventuate, or as a starting step to...
From the City West stop, extend the tramline along North Terrace, to run adjacent Port Road and then turn left at either...

1. The Torrens linear park as a tram corridor (as is done with the O-Bahn) and turn south at either Autumn Avenue or Holbrooks Road, to travel along a short distance of HBR to adjoin Airport Road and enter into T1.

2. Phillips Street, into Ashwin Parade (adjacent Brickworks Markets) which runs into Cranbrook Avenue, and then turn south down Holbrooks Road, west again on HBR and readjoin into the Airport Road median, to enter into T1.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#93 Post by monotonehell » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:24 am

Thanks Omi, there's a few points in there to consider and which I'll add into the post when I get some time. Especially the consideration of a non-stop service or a shared local service. Personally I'd like a non-stop dedicated, but the economics at this point in time seem to be against that.

Shuz! ARGH more routes!? :lol: I'll check those ideas out and add them to the post later. Unless your directions end up in Siberia or something. What was that about taking the left turn at Albuquerque? ;)


For new players, the post we're discussing is : http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... =75#p32698
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#94 Post by Ho Really » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:13 pm

Thanks for the nice graphic, monotonehell! Now please add my other options that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread:

1. Up the South Road connector to James Congdon Road to join suburban heavy rail.
2. Around the Bunnings car park (south of Sir Donald Bradman Drive) to the rail lines going north under the Hilton Bridges.

Another variation of the No. 2 option (not sure if I actually explained it well in a past post) was coming around from the north going south to the Keswick Interstate Terminal.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#95 Post by monotonehell » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:15 pm

Will do Ho Really (or do you prefer "Ho") ;)

I'll have a look at Omi and your routes and see if I can work them out. Google Maps is refusing to serve me right now and Microsoft and Yahoo! are woefully out of date, I'll try again later.
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#96 Post by Wilfy 2007 » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:54 pm

monotonehell wrote:Will do Ho Really (or do you prefer "Ho") ;)

I'll have a look at Omi and your routes and see if I can work them out. Google Maps is refusing to serve me right now and Microsoft and Yahoo! are woefully out of date, I'll try again later.
monotonehell,
Are you familiar with Davenport Terrace in Hilton and Richmond?
And Jenkins Street Cowandilla/Richmond.
I have a vague recollection that these two streets are quite wide in relation to normal streets.
Davenport Terrace would be closer to the Keswick terminal, but I cannot remember what is on the land between South Road and Railway terrace.
If possible, keswick terminal to Davenport terrace, davenport terrace to Jenkins street, Jenkins street on to Marion Road, Marion road into the drain section to the airport.

Would this be a more direct route.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#97 Post by cleverick » Wed May 07, 2008 3:33 pm

I have spent a long time thinking about this and am currently writing both a blog (http://www.cleverail.blogspot.com) and an economics essay on the subject. As I see it, the route should look like this:
Adelaide, Mile End, Keswick, ETSA Park, Richmond Oval, Cowandilla Primary, Marion Rd, Export Park, Harbour Town.
This would be a commuter train built by compulsory acquisition of the houses on the south bank of the drain reserve, and various convenient connectors where it goes under ground. There would then be a spur line into the proposed hotel/terminal complex, which would run an express service from the airport itself into the city.
To beautify the route, the drain reserve would be returned to creek, and a linear-park style creek system would provide amenity and park as default compensation to those who don't want a train in their backyard. This would provide habitat for (ultimately) fish, small mammals, birds and plants. Subject to flood data, it could be developed into a wetlands which would slow flow into the Gulf and cleanse water before it reaches the ocean.

Ultimately, this supports my plan for an Outer-Harbour to Sellicks Beach rail. The Airport could become another hub, with tourist expresses departing regularly for Glenelg and the Port, Adelaide's other major tourist destinations. These routes would also be commuter lines- and the Port link would connect with the Grange line, thus graudally building up a nexus of suburban rail.

As you will realise if you look at my blog, this is sort of my thing.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#98 Post by Wayno » Wed May 07, 2008 3:49 pm

cleverick wrote:I have spent a long time thinking about this and am currently writing both a blog (http://www.cleverail.blogspot.com) and an economics essay on the subject. As I see it, the route should look like this:
Adelaide, Mile End, Keswick, ETSA Park, Richmond Oval, Cowandilla Primary, Marion Rd, Export Park, Harbour Town.
This would be a commuter train built by compulsory acquisition of the houses on the south bank of the drain reserve, and various convenient connectors where it goes under ground. There would then be a spur line into the proposed hotel/terminal complex, which would run an express service from the airport itself into the city.
To beautify the route, the drain reserve would be returned to creek, and a linear-park style creek system would provide amenity and park as default compensation to those who don't want a train in their backyard. This would provide habitat for (ultimately) fish, small mammals, birds and plants. Subject to flood data, it could be developed into a wetlands which would slow flow into the Gulf and cleanse water before it reaches the ocean.

Ultimately, this supports my plan for an Outer-Harbour to Sellicks Beach rail. The Airport could become another hub, with tourist expresses departing regularly for Glenelg and the Port, Adelaide's other major tourist destinations. These routes would also be commuter lines- and the Port link would connect with the Grange line, thus graudally building up a nexus of suburban rail.

As you will realise if you look at my blog, this is sort of my thing.
Cleverick, any chance of you producing a map showing the route pls? It would certainly help us "visual thinkers" :-)

oh, and great first post - welcome!
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#99 Post by monotonehell » Wed May 07, 2008 7:31 pm

Wayno wrote:Cleverick, any chance of you producing a map showing the route pls? It would certainly help us "visual thinkers" :-)
oh, and great first post - welcome!
I also would like to see a map please - I don't quite follow what you mean. If you look back a few pages I've put a lot of the proposals on to maps. Except the ones I can't follow.
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#100 Post by Norman » Wed May 07, 2008 8:58 pm

While I do like new ideas, linking up the Gawler line to the Noarlunga line is key to maximizing efficiency of our rail network.

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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#101 Post by adam73837 » Wed May 07, 2008 9:26 pm

Well said Norman!
BTW brilliant post cleverick!
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Re: Adelaide Airport rail link

#102 Post by cleverick » Wed May 07, 2008 11:36 pm

Thank you, thank you for your support.
Unfortuately I'm not so good on my Mac yet, and I don't know how to get screen shots, or what programme to edit them in (I suspect I still need to buy a software package, but I'm loathe, as a poor student, to do so.) For your convenience, however, I describe the route more accurately:
Adelaide Station (extant)
Mile End (extant)
Keswick (extant)
ETSA Park (I haven't been there, but on GoogleEarth it appears there is a space through which it could cross and provide a commuter stop for netballers, sport lovers and workers in the (by now well-discussed) industry in the area.)
Richmond Oval (To get to the north side, as proposed, this would require some funny routing or a lot of demolished buildings north of Scotland Rd, but I think that's acceptable given the scale of what we're planning here. The station would replace part of the car park or occupy the space of a couple of homes on the south east corner of Albert and Milner Rd)
Cowandilla Pmy (Continuing south of the current drain reserve, Brooker Rd underpass/block/level crossing (in that order of my preference) and the station would be approximately on a north-south axis with the end of Fenner Ave so that little kiddies don't have to walk far to school and people don't have to walk far to the library and other community services near there.)
Marion Rd (North East side of Craig/Marion Rds intesection. Marion Rd underpass/train flyway a must. In that order of preference. A flyway combined with a creek will have too steep a slope, I feel.)
[?]Morley St (Depending on suburban use/cost analysis, you could build an extra station here, too. I hadn't thought of that. In any case, because of the distance between stations, the possibility must not be discounted, and even if the station is not built, land should be acquired for its future placement.
Export Park (From Morley St, due west to the base of Clifford and swing north. Without taking current use into account, the station would then be at Comley St. This would be fairly convenient for people seeing off friends, the people who work in Export Park, and perhaps with appropriate permissions and pathways, local residents.)
[Spur Line] [Terminal/Hotel] (This would run south west from Comley straight into the hotel's lobby/terminal foyer. An attactive, comfortable, well-stocked-with-flyers train would await tourists and depart express to city with regularity and certainty. If a suburban train broke down blocking the city-bound track, I would give the airport express priority in the west-bound track and force commuters to wait. Just a thought)
[?] [Business Park] (Meanwhile, on the main line, the train would continue, potentially along James Schofield Drive. It would continue west to Tapleys Hill Road where there is a new business park being built. A station on the northern or western edges of this would serve both that locality and the local residents. Another one I hadn't thought of.)
Harbour Town (For the time being, this is the terminus of my plans. However, I have a scheme for building a suburban rail network in Adelaide, and this line would be extended to West Beach and then north to Outer Harbour via Grange and south to Glenelg. This I want to extend, always along the coast, all the way to Sellicks Beach. The airport could also then run express services to these three tourist drawcards: the Bay, the Port and the City. Not only convenient for those who have just arrived and want to expore Adelaide, but a simple connector for the majority of tourists who stay in the City- just two expresses.)

Secondly, even though I'm logged in, I can't see the delete button so that I can save you all the horror of having to read my post twice. Someone to help?

I posted that first post during a lecture, but now I have had time to read all your posts, I would like to put in my two cents:
1, NIMBYism is a lie. Unlike the South Road expansion/ANZAC Highway underpass debacle into which the government got itself, public support would be high. Read the letters to the editor in the Tiser. Day after day, article after article calls for more frequent, better, faster, more public transport. Except for the houses actually being acquired and about half of those whose privacy may be invaded for 5 years while trees are established, no one will complain. On the other hand, the applause from everyone else will drown them out.
2, As detailed above, there is no reason, with clever timing and overtaking lanes, that a suburban commuter route and airport express can't run concurrently. If it only leaves hourly, those in a screaming rush can walk to Export Park and hop on the commuter train there.
3, I am concerned generally with the propensity on this site for people to advocate building things on open space. This plan would actually increase the total open space, allow for better flood prevention, improve wildlife habitat, water cleanliness, and amenity to the local people (a lot of whom own dogs which need walking, as you will discover if you walk down Hughes St on a beautiful summer's eve).
4, Similar to Rome's airport express, Adelaide's Tindo bus or the KI ferry, the express train could be specially adapted for tourists with a (staffed) guide desk, maps, information and anything else someone from Germany or Melbourne or the Sudan might need to know about Adelaide.
5, Why should the train run to curfew? I have caught the train departing Adelaide to Noarlunga Centre at 23:58, and my uncle in Goodwood is sometimes awoken by freight trains in the dead of night. This is a fact of life for people in big cities. I'm normally quite happy to accomodate the whimsy of people in trying to achieve something, but in this case I can only say: deal with it!
6, So that no one can say I'm not thorough, I have just counted around 120 houses, at $450,000 plus compensation each which need to be acquired. Don't think I don't know the cost of this project. I just happen to think it's worth it.

Read my blog, http://www.cleverail.blogspot.com for more information.

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