Beer Garden

Anything goes here.. :) Now with Beer Garden for our smoking patrons.
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ChillyPhilly
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Re: Beer Garden

#3121 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:07 pm

Bold prediction: in three weeks' time, SA will begin to see the end of the virus.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3122 Post by Nort » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:54 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:37 pm
So do people want to take guesses how many developments will be cancelled? My feeling is all this will likely have long term ramifications, although those aren't yet clear.
Any hotel not yet started and/financed probably isn't going ahead in the near future at least imo.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3123 Post by Nort » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:56 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:07 pm
Bold prediction: in three weeks' time, SA will begin to see the end of the virus.
How are you defining that?

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Re: Beer Garden

#3124 Post by Norman » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:25 pm

I'll be very interested to see future studies on how high density living environments have impacted the spread of the corona virus. It could make a big impact on how new houses and developments are designed in the future.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3125 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:42 pm

Nort wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:56 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:07 pm
Bold prediction: in three weeks' time, SA will begin to see the end of the virus.
How are you defining that?
New cases will be in single digits at most.

I just feel that we've got it not so bad here in SA. As long as we keep borders closed, keep recovery internalised and everyone does the right thing, this prediction can happen. SA could at least be the first state to return to some degree of normality.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3126 Post by SBD » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:23 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:42 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:56 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:07 pm
Bold prediction: in three weeks' time, SA will begin to see the end of the virus.
How are you defining that?
New cases will be in single digits at most.

I just feel that we've got it not so bad here in SA. As long as we keep borders closed, keep recovery internalised and everyone does the right thing, this prediction can happen. SA could at least be the first state to return to some degree of normality.
You could be right. The pessimistic view could be that too many of us will head out to the country for the long weekend and spread it far and wide. We will recover quicker if we don't try to do it too quickly.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3127 Post by rev » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:24 pm

Norman wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:25 pm
I'll be very interested to see future studies on how high density living environments have impacted the spread of the corona virus. It could make a big impact on how new houses and developments are designed in the future.
There's going to be far more important questions answered then that.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3128 Post by rev » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:11 am

Hallelujah, lets hope they follow through with it and it's not just words. For now it seems the western world has been woken up to the threat that China presents to our way of life and our values.
A complete reset, an end to it all with China. Who in their right minds would be so dependent let alone trading with an enemy? Insanity.

And they're damn right Australians wont forget this. There's already a big movement starting for a boycott of anything made in China. Buy anything made anywhere except made in China as much as possible.
No more. @$#@ the ccp.

I think an important step as well will be cleaning Australia out of all their spies and their fifth column.
For sure their student numbers will drop significantly. A very good thing.
Dual citizenships I think will be targetted as well, especially those found to be in compromising positions. Cancellation of citizenship & residency status for many is coming.
A side effect of all that will be the property market will settle. We wont have them coming over throwing huge overs at properties and pricing locals out anymore. So from a socioeconomic point of view that's a very good thing for Australia and our people.

Hopefully another thing to come out of this is the seizure of everything Chinese companies backed by the communist regime have invested in, bought or leased.
The barring of Chinese companies operating in Australia, like those two companies full of ccp loyalist fifth columnists who in January raided our medical supplies. 2 billion masks were sent back to China from western countries. That's simply outrageous. While our nurses and doctors struggle to find enough, and France and other European countries are asking doctors to reuse equipment if they can because there's critical shortages thanks to communist China.

This virus has exposed them for what they are. A true enemy in sheep's clothing.
Extremely reassuring that we have so many politicians who have opened their eyes and are speaking out now.
Australian MPs call for scrutiny of China amid coronavirus pandemic
Ellen Whinnett, News Corp Australia Network
April 3, 2020 8:30pm
Subscriber only

Exclusive: Australian Parliamentarians have launched an extraordinary attack on the Chinese Communist Party, warning of economic consequences and saying it would not be allowed to escape responsibility for the coronavirus.

Several MPs warned there would be a resetting of the relationship between Australia and its biggest trading partner, while one said the CCP was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people by covering up details of the early coronavirus outbreak.

The attack by Liberal and Labor MPs and Senators is one of the strongest by a group of parliamentarians anywhere in the world in response to the COVID-19 outbreak, and will deeply concern the Chinese Embassy in Canberra and leaders in Beijing.

The comments reflect concerns held by senior members of the Morrison government and will send the already fractious relationship between Australia and China to a new low.

Two of the MPs, Liberal Andrew Hastie and Labor’s Anthony Byrne, said there would have to be a discussion about a new relationship between China and Australia.

The men are chair and deputy chair of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Intelligence and Security and have close ties to Australia’s intelligence community.

They are also known as China hawks.

“The Australian people aren’t mugs. They know how COVID-19 started and how the CCP lied about it,’’ Mr Hastie, from Western Australia, told News Corp.

“They can send all the medical supplies in the world but we aren’t easily bought off. We need to have a national conversation about never letting ourselves be so vulnerable again.’’

Mr Byrne, a Victorian, said there had to be a “fundamental realignment in our approach and how we relate to China.’’

“This crisis has exposed enormous fault lines in the global supply chain and illustrated why we need, in certain strategic areas, the capacity to manufacture essential items onshore,’’ he said.

“This conversation is already happening in supermarkets, florist shops and construction sites across the country.’’

NSW Liberal Dave Sharma said any nation that sought a leadership role, as China did, must be held to higher standards.

“Any nation that releases in an uncontrolled fashion nuclear material for instance, or chemical weapons, or allows those to escape from its control would rightly be subject to criticism in the councils of the world,’’ he said.

“There will need to be a pretty forensic look at where coronavirus emerged from, how it escaped, how it left China, did China put in place the right steps and were they responsible in how they not only informed the world but dealt with the rest of the world on this issue.’’

Mr Sharma, a former diplomat, said Australia needed to ensure its “sources of prosperity’’ were diversified.

“What this crisis has shown particularly on the education and tourism side, is that we are dangerously reliant upon a single market, namely China, particularly for foreign students but also for tourism.’’

He said the wider economy, and particularly the tourism and the university sectors, would find a way to diversify.

“This isn’t about being anti-China, it’s just making sure we have got risks evenly distributed. It’s prudent national management,’’ he said.

“A lot of countries after this crisis will be looking at their supply chain vulnerabilities and seeing whether they’ve got critical capabilities onshore to meet their national needs if the world trading system is interrupted in this way again.

“I think you’ll see a lot of countries reflect upon some of the kind of elements of globalisation that have probably reached a high water mark over the last year or two and some of that pendulum will swing back towards people worrying a bit more about interruption and reliability and things like that.

“I think the pendulum is swinging back towards the nation state. Nation states have been the main vehicles for managing this crisis.’’

China was furious when Australia enacted foreign interference laws, including a register of foreign lobbying activities, and locked Chinese telco Huawei out of Australia’s broadband and 5G network upgrades. (Geeee I wonder why)

A crackdown by the Foreign Investment Review Board announced this week which will see all foreign bids scrutinised in order to protect distressed Australian companies from being snapped up by overseas interests has also been interpreted as a move to stop China increasing its assets in Australia.

Victorian Liberal Tim Wilson attacked China’s propaganda efforts in the wake of the virus outbreak.

“The Chinese Communist Party’s deliberate strategy to suppress awareness of the virus led to this pandemic, it will not be forgotten and has shredded their credibility across the globe,’’ he said.

“No-one is fooled by the CCP’s attempt to pump misinformation to escape their responsibility for the transmissions of COVID-19 and the deaths of thousands.

“As countries stabilise the health of their populations and economics there will justifiably be a focus on the CCP’s culpability and the consequences of their actions that has inflicted pain on the world.’’

Another member of the so-called Wolverines – a group of MPs concerned about China’s creeping influence in Australia – Liberal Senator for Victoria James Paterson, said at an appropriate time “Australia needs to comprehensively reassess our relationship with China.’’

“In the meantime, the Chinese Communist Party should not kid themselves that Australians are falling for their campaign of disinformation. We know where the virus came from and we won’t forget it.’’

Victorian Labor MP Julian Hill said people should “rightly be angry at the initial cover-up by the CCP and its failure to give the world more time to prepare, comparable to the Soviet Union and Chernobyl.’’

He also raised concerns about the erratic response by the US to the virus outbreak.

“It’s important and disturbing to me to reflect on the utter absence of US leadership in a global crisis … arguably the first major emergency for 100 years when the US has completely failed in its traditional global leadership,’’ Mr Hill said.

He said this could have profound implications, and worried him deeply as someone who valued US leadership and the Australian-American alliance.

South Australian Liberal Senator Alex Antic said: “Australians are now rightfully asking why the Chinese Communist Party should not foot the bill for the COVID-19.

“I think that’s a question which Australia and its allies should be posing once the health situation has settled,’’ he told News Corp.

Queensland LNP Senator Amanda Stoker said there were serious questions around the “adequacy and honesty’’ of the CCP’s early response to the virus outbreak.

“The time for doing so will come as soon as the health and economic situation is stabilised,’’ she said.

“China’s claim to be a responsible world leader cannot be accepted when these matters hang under a cloud.’’

Victorian Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching, who has previously expressed concern about Chinese influence, said China’s actions on the global stage had, for a long period, been transactional.

“There is a growing acknowledgment in the Australian Parliament, across all parties, that the current status quo when engaging with Beijing may need to reflect a values system with which Australians are comfortable,’’ she said.

“In addition, a serious discussion will need to be had on economic and security capabilities.

“To go to the coronavirus pandemic, the robbing of Peter to pay Paul is simply not acceptable. “Australians will not accept Beijing putting the call-out to owners of companies around the world to send critical medical supplies back to the mainland, to then position themselves as philanthropists through an attempt at ‘mea culpa’ diplomacy.’’
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/coronavi ... 53b21dda22

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Re: Beer Garden

#3129 Post by Nort » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:05 am

rev wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:11 am
Hallelujah, lets hope they follow through with it and it's not just words. For now it seems the western world has been woken up to the threat that China presents to our way of life and our values.
A complete reset, an end to it all with China. Who in their right minds would be so dependent let alone trading with an enemy? Insanity.

And they're damn right Australians wont forget this. There's already a big movement starting for a boycott of anything made in China. Buy anything made anywhere except made in China as much as possible.
No more. @$#@ the ccp.

I think an important step as well will be cleaning Australia out of all their spies and their fifth column.
For sure their student numbers will drop significantly. A very good thing.
Dual citizenships I think will be targetted as well, especially those found to be in compromising positions. Cancellation of citizenship & residency status for many is coming.
A side effect of all that will be the property market will settle. We wont have them coming over throwing huge overs at properties and pricing locals out anymore. So from a socioeconomic point of view that's a very good thing for Australia and our people.

Hopefully another thing to come out of this is the seizure of everything Chinese companies backed by the communist regime have invested in, bought or leased.
The barring of Chinese companies operating in Australia, like those two companies full of ccp loyalist fifth columnists who in January raided our medical supplies. 2 billion masks were sent back to China from western countries. That's simply outrageous. While our nurses and doctors struggle to find enough, and France and other European countries are asking doctors to reuse equipment if they can because there's critical shortages thanks to communist China.

This virus has exposed them for what they are. A true enemy in sheep's clothing.
Extremely reassuring that we have so many politicians who have opened their eyes and are speaking out now.
Australian MPs call for scrutiny of China amid coronavirus pandemic
Ellen Whinnett, News Corp Australia Network
April 3, 2020 8:30pm
Subscriber only

Exclusive: Australian Parliamentarians have launched an extraordinary attack on the Chinese Communist Party, warning of economic consequences and saying it would not be allowed to escape responsibility for the coronavirus.

Several MPs warned there would be a resetting of the relationship between Australia and its biggest trading partner, while one said the CCP was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people by covering up details of the early coronavirus outbreak.

The attack by Liberal and Labor MPs and Senators is one of the strongest by a group of parliamentarians anywhere in the world in response to the COVID-19 outbreak, and will deeply concern the Chinese Embassy in Canberra and leaders in Beijing.

The comments reflect concerns held by senior members of the Morrison government and will send the already fractious relationship between Australia and China to a new low.

Two of the MPs, Liberal Andrew Hastie and Labor’s Anthony Byrne, said there would have to be a discussion about a new relationship between China and Australia.

The men are chair and deputy chair of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Intelligence and Security and have close ties to Australia’s intelligence community.

They are also known as China hawks.

“The Australian people aren’t mugs. They know how COVID-19 started and how the CCP lied about it,’’ Mr Hastie, from Western Australia, told News Corp.

“They can send all the medical supplies in the world but we aren’t easily bought off. We need to have a national conversation about never letting ourselves be so vulnerable again.’’

Mr Byrne, a Victorian, said there had to be a “fundamental realignment in our approach and how we relate to China.’’

“This crisis has exposed enormous fault lines in the global supply chain and illustrated why we need, in certain strategic areas, the capacity to manufacture essential items onshore,’’ he said.

“This conversation is already happening in supermarkets, florist shops and construction sites across the country.’’

NSW Liberal Dave Sharma said any nation that sought a leadership role, as China did, must be held to higher standards.

“Any nation that releases in an uncontrolled fashion nuclear material for instance, or chemical weapons, or allows those to escape from its control would rightly be subject to criticism in the councils of the world,’’ he said.

“There will need to be a pretty forensic look at where coronavirus emerged from, how it escaped, how it left China, did China put in place the right steps and were they responsible in how they not only informed the world but dealt with the rest of the world on this issue.’’

Mr Sharma, a former diplomat, said Australia needed to ensure its “sources of prosperity’’ were diversified.

“What this crisis has shown particularly on the education and tourism side, is that we are dangerously reliant upon a single market, namely China, particularly for foreign students but also for tourism.’’

He said the wider economy, and particularly the tourism and the university sectors, would find a way to diversify.

“This isn’t about being anti-China, it’s just making sure we have got risks evenly distributed. It’s prudent national management,’’ he said.

“A lot of countries after this crisis will be looking at their supply chain vulnerabilities and seeing whether they’ve got critical capabilities onshore to meet their national needs if the world trading system is interrupted in this way again.

“I think you’ll see a lot of countries reflect upon some of the kind of elements of globalisation that have probably reached a high water mark over the last year or two and some of that pendulum will swing back towards people worrying a bit more about interruption and reliability and things like that.

“I think the pendulum is swinging back towards the nation state. Nation states have been the main vehicles for managing this crisis.’’

China was furious when Australia enacted foreign interference laws, including a register of foreign lobbying activities, and locked Chinese telco Huawei out of Australia’s broadband and 5G network upgrades. (Geeee I wonder why)

A crackdown by the Foreign Investment Review Board announced this week which will see all foreign bids scrutinised in order to protect distressed Australian companies from being snapped up by overseas interests has also been interpreted as a move to stop China increasing its assets in Australia.

Victorian Liberal Tim Wilson attacked China’s propaganda efforts in the wake of the virus outbreak.

“The Chinese Communist Party’s deliberate strategy to suppress awareness of the virus led to this pandemic, it will not be forgotten and has shredded their credibility across the globe,’’ he said.

“No-one is fooled by the CCP’s attempt to pump misinformation to escape their responsibility for the transmissions of COVID-19 and the deaths of thousands.

“As countries stabilise the health of their populations and economics there will justifiably be a focus on the CCP’s culpability and the consequences of their actions that has inflicted pain on the world.’’

Another member of the so-called Wolverines – a group of MPs concerned about China’s creeping influence in Australia – Liberal Senator for Victoria James Paterson, said at an appropriate time “Australia needs to comprehensively reassess our relationship with China.’’

“In the meantime, the Chinese Communist Party should not kid themselves that Australians are falling for their campaign of disinformation. We know where the virus came from and we won’t forget it.’’

Victorian Labor MP Julian Hill said people should “rightly be angry at the initial cover-up by the CCP and its failure to give the world more time to prepare, comparable to the Soviet Union and Chernobyl.’’

He also raised concerns about the erratic response by the US to the virus outbreak.

“It’s important and disturbing to me to reflect on the utter absence of US leadership in a global crisis … arguably the first major emergency for 100 years when the US has completely failed in its traditional global leadership,’’ Mr Hill said.

He said this could have profound implications, and worried him deeply as someone who valued US leadership and the Australian-American alliance.

South Australian Liberal Senator Alex Antic said: “Australians are now rightfully asking why the Chinese Communist Party should not foot the bill for the COVID-19.

“I think that’s a question which Australia and its allies should be posing once the health situation has settled,’’ he told News Corp.

Queensland LNP Senator Amanda Stoker said there were serious questions around the “adequacy and honesty’’ of the CCP’s early response to the virus outbreak.

“The time for doing so will come as soon as the health and economic situation is stabilised,’’ she said.

“China’s claim to be a responsible world leader cannot be accepted when these matters hang under a cloud.’’

Victorian Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching, who has previously expressed concern about Chinese influence, said China’s actions on the global stage had, for a long period, been transactional.

“There is a growing acknowledgment in the Australian Parliament, across all parties, that the current status quo when engaging with Beijing may need to reflect a values system with which Australians are comfortable,’’ she said.

“In addition, a serious discussion will need to be had on economic and security capabilities.

“To go to the coronavirus pandemic, the robbing of Peter to pay Paul is simply not acceptable. “Australians will not accept Beijing putting the call-out to owners of companies around the world to send critical medical supplies back to the mainland, to then position themselves as philanthropists through an attempt at ‘mea culpa’ diplomacy.’’
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/coronavi ... 53b21dda22
No.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3130 Post by gnrc_louis » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:39 am

The CCP trying to influence Australian Politics has been an ongoing issue for years. Unless the Australian economy becomes less reliant on exporting raw materials to China, taking in higher education students from China, and consumers demand for cheap goods made in China decreases, I'm not sure how much the status quo will shift.

Furthermore, politicians might be saying these things now, but not so long ago the PM was calling criticism of Gladys Liu's highly questionable connections "an attack on all Chinese." That's pretty much a line direct from the playbook of the CCP, who promote that notion when a member of the Chinese community overseas is called out for their CCP links. Don't be surprised if these same politicians calling for tougher action on China now, aren't going to questionable CCP linked "business association" dinners in a year's time.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3131 Post by SBD » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:29 am

Chinese students studying here then returning to China could be just as much Australian influence on future China as it is Chinese influence on Australia.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3132 Post by gnrc_louis » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:36 am

SBD wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:29 am
Chinese students studying here then returning to China could be just as much Australian influence on future China as it is Chinese influence on Australia.
Doesn't seem to be the experience unfortunately in recent years. The CCP do a very good job of monitoring Chinese students in Australia and stifling any attempts by them to publicly question the legitimacy of the Party.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3133 Post by rev » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:37 am

SBD wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:29 am
Chinese students studying here then returning to China could be just as much Australian influence on future China as it is Chinese influence on Australia.
Doesn't work that way. Which ones, the ones sent as spies on the ccp payroll, or the ones too fearful to say anything because their families back home will be persecuted and so will they upon return?

Do Australians actually realize the chinese embassies and consulates are manned by spies posing as diplomats and such?
Do Australians realize that anything to do with the chinese communities in Australia (and indeed around the world) sees these embassy spies come out and recording/monitoring/spying on the chinese communities?

Australians are waking up from their naive views of communist china.

They silenced their own doctors and journalists who tried to raise the alarm about this virus in November and early December.
Imagine if they were a responsible regime, we wouldn't have this global crisis right now.

But really its our own damn fault.
These idiots did nothing to prevent another sars outbreak, allowed those disgusting wet markets to flourish again.
Two decades later here we are with another sars outbreak, only this time its much worse and threatens global stability.
China should have been cut off after they allowed the same scenario that led to sars.

No, china and its fifth column spies need to be, and more importantly will be held accountable for this. Whether the Australian government wants to or not, the bigger fish are going to take action.

They lost the trade war, they'll lose on this as well.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3134 Post by Nort » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:30 am

CCP is awful, a good rule for life is it's safe to call out anyone who fights to deny people's rights.

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Re: Beer Garden

#3135 Post by how good is he » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:14 am

I read an article that the coronavirus has cost (and China should be sued) for at least $6.5 Trillion for the damage it has done to the worlds G7 economies. Not sure if this is an estimate or the actual cost so far (with Australia’s Govt bailout at $130 billion so far). Btw, anyone know what China is “worth”? https://amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/chi ... 54h5b.html

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