Beer Garden

[rev]

Something needs to seriously happen about that fucking preacher that rocks up in the mall.

Just witnessed the arsehole insert himself into a busking performance by kids to spew his bile. Security had to play the 'hear both sides of the story' game, but apparently he's been attracting complaints left right and centre today. It's about time they stop playing nice with the prick and ban him permanently from even entering the mall.

Back during Fringe he was out in the mall spouting rubbish about same sex couples "not being able to bring up children properly" - I sent an email to every single ACC Councillor asking if anything could be done to prevent those working and shopping on the Mall having to listen repeatedly to such nonsense but only ever received a reply from one (Sue Clearihan) who said she was going to look into the previous ruling about what they could and couldn't do in the mall, but that was the last I heard.

Can't believe the ACC, the Rundle Mall Authority et al are seemingly quite happy to allow these nutjobs to spout their backwards hate speech willy nilly - how fucking embarrassing to think that interstate and international visitors to the Fringe are presented with that mob as the 'face of Adelaide'.

I watch him most days from my office window shouting his nonsense whilst his 'interesting' looking helpers leave leaflets in phone booths, on parked bikes etc. I just wait until they've moved on then pop down to collect them and chuck them in the bin.

Two men or two women can't raise a child the same as a hetero couple can.
It's just common sense. You have a mother, and a father, both play different roles as related to their genders. There are only two genders, despite the latest fads going around. You know the latest one is eco-sexuals? I'll let you look that one up.

However, running around public places yelling your opinions at people is wrong.
Running around preaching to people who don't want to hear what you've got to say, interrupting kids busking performances(and probably traumatizing them to some small extent at least putting them off busking again), is just wrong.
There's a time and place for that stuff, and a public mall getting in peoples faces and disturbing them in general is not the place.

You rushing down as soon as they are gone to remove their leaflets is also just as wrong as them harassing people in public places with their preaching.

You disagree with them, so you 1) try to have them silenced, and 2) go out of your way to prevent whatever beliefs they have from being shared with others.

That's the acts of a fascist.
What you are doing is just as bad as those feminazi douches who go around violently ripping down the No Campaigns posters.
Who do you people think you are to stop others having an opinion? Then labelling them the fascists because they don't conform to your beliefs..
The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't setting such a dangerous precedent for our society.

But then again when we have sporting organizations and corporations picking sides, maybe it's too late for our society.
Even political leaders have chosen sides. They are elected by the people, not all the people share the opinion that same sex marriage should be legal. But we have our wonderful premier with a facebook profile picture supporting it. Suspect he's going to lose more then a few votes at the next election as a result.

Imagine if international celebs started telling us to vote No.
Just like Ellen(a lesbian with vested interests), Macklemore, and other foreign douchebags have started telling us how to vote and what to do.
But that wont happen, because the international leftist mafia antifa terrorist douchebags would destroy their careers.
We should be free to live our lives how we want, say/do what we want, but only if it conforms to the Cominterns neo-fascist ideology for destroying the fabric of western countries.

[Ben]

We should be free to live our lives how we want, say/do what we want

I can only assume you are for same sex marriage then or is that different because it doesn't align with your personal beliefs?

[Llessur2002]

You have a mother, and a father, both play different roles as related to their genders.

In what way just out of interest? People vary wildly in temperament, interests, skills, compassion, personality etc regardless of their gender - if a child has two loving parents then I genuinely don't see what they would miss out on if those parents were same-sex as opposed to opposite sex.

For every gender stereotype you can give me that suggests the 'man will be strong and teach the kid to throw a footy and be tough, whilst the woman will be compassionate and caring in ways a man can't etc' I'm sure I will know several people of that sex who don't conform to that stereotype.

We have a same sex couple in my close family - they are doing an absolutely amazing job of raising two very happy, well-rounded little boys. I can't think of anything they are missing out on because they have two mums instead of a mum and a dad. I know of opposite-sex couples who are doing a worse job of raising their children.

I genuinely can't see how gender matters in relation to bringing up a child - outside of the fast-becoming-redundant 1950s Christian ideology of family life.

And I believe I have every right to remove the leaflets left lying around the CBD in phone booths, on ATMs and on people's bikes because:

a) it's littering, plain and simple.
b) they are spreading misinformation (would you for example have a problem with me removing anti-vaxer leaflets?)
c) judging by the fairly sad looking bunch holding the banners (some of whom I suspect are not the sharpest tools in the box based on conversations I have overheard), it appears this is a group which preys on/grooms vulnerable members of society

I have no particular issues with the religious groups which promote themselves in the Mall quietly and non-aggressively.

[rev]

We should be free to live our lives how we want, say/do what we want

I can only assume you are for same sex marriage then or is that different because it doesn't align with your personal beliefs?

Really Ben? I thought you were better then this, using snippets to suit your agenda.

[Ben]

No, you just proved your point perfectly. Everyone should have freedom of speech and to do what they want with their own lives - unless you disagree with it, as in the case of same sex marriage.

Your argument has been shot to pieces.

[rev]

You have a mother, and a father, both play different roles as related to their genders.

In what way just out of interest? People vary wildly in temperament, interests, skills, compassion, personality etc regardless of their gender - if a child has two loving parents then I genuinely don't see what they would miss out on if those parents were same-sex as opposed to opposite sex.

For every gender stereotype you can give me that suggests the 'man will be strong and teach the kid to throw a footy and be tough, whilst the woman will be compassionate and caring in ways a man can't etc' I'm sure I will know several people of that sex who don't conform to that stereotype.

We have a same sex couple in my close family - they are doing an absolutely amazing job of raising two very happy, well-rounded little boys. I can't think of anything they are missing out on because they have two mums instead of a mum and a dad. I know of opposite-sex couples who are doing a worse job of raising their children.

I genuinely can't see how gender matters in relation to bringing up a child - outside of the fast-becoming-redundant 1950s Christian ideology of family life.

And I believe I have every right to remove the leaflets left lying around the CBD in phone booths, on ATMs and on people's bikes because:

a) it's littering, plain and simple.
b) they are spreading misinformation (would you for example have a problem with me removing anti-vaxer leaflets?)
c) judging by the fairly sad looking bunch holding the banners (some of whom I suspect are not the sharpest tools in the box based on conversations I have overheard), it appears this is a group which preys on/grooms vulnerable members of society

I have no particular issues with the religious groups which promote themselves in the Mall quietly and non-aggressively.

Unlike militant left wingers, I believe in free speech, and peoples right to express them selves. Regardless of if they are wrong, or I agree or disagree with what they are saying.
What you are doing, would be like me now going to the sites host, or the county authorities where the site is hosted, and getting it shut down because I disagree with you.
I disagree with you, now it's my choice whether I chose to sit here and argue with you and prove you wrong, or ignore you.
You have the same choice with regards to those people.
I've seen plenty of vote yes posters around the place. Do I go removing them because the yare spreading misinformation to vulnerable people? No.
But maybe those of us who aren't part of the militant left wing should start using the same tactics the militant left wing use. The silent majority will always out number the crazies on either side.

If you can't think of what those two little boys are missing out on by not having a father figure raising them, then there's not point continuing this discussion. There's plenty they are missing out on by not having a father.
Not because there's nothing I can say, there's plenty.
But this will be a pointless exercise, as you obviously have very strong beliefs on a child not needing a mother and father in their lives to raise them.
And at the end of the day, what you believe, has no relevance to my life. You see we can all chose to walk away, and let people believe what they want to believe. It doesn't hurt us to do so. It makes no difference to our lives what someone else believes in.

That's the difference between the other side, the silent majority, and the militant left wing who go mental and get violent when someone challenges them or doesn't agree with them.
Unfortunately one day eventually the other sides out there will have had enough of the verbal and physical abuse, and things will get very nasty quickly. I hope that the more sane people within the left wing groups actually gain control before its too late.
But when you have groups like GetUp, funded by foreign interests, pushing foreign agendas in our country, infiltrating the left wing, it's probably already too late.

And for the record, I'm all for same sex couples having civil unions recognized by the state. Who really cares?
It's a civil union, does it affect me? no. It will only affect me if it's pushed onto every religious organization and they are all forced to change their religious practices to suit the mentally unstable state. So much for separation of church and state. Typical hypocritical left wing.

[Llessur2002]

If you can't think of what those two little boys are missing out on by not having a father figure raising them, then there's not point continuing this discussion. There's plenty they are missing out on by not having a father.
Not because there's nothing I can say, there's plenty.

I'd like you to actually list a few valid examples.

If you can.

[rev]

No, you just proved your point perfectly. Everyone should have freedom of speech and to do what they want with their own lives - unless you disagree with it, as in the case of same sex marriage.

Your argument has been shot to pieces.

My argument has been shot to pieces? You first have to know what the argument was to be able to shoot it to pieces.

I'm not against same sex marriage. I very much don't care if same sex couples are allowed to have civil unions recognized by the state. I've said this in the past.
Nice of you to jump to conclusions like a good indoctrinated leftist foot soldier.

[rev]

If you can't think of what those two little boys are missing out on by not having a father figure raising them, then there's not point continuing this discussion. There's plenty they are missing out on by not having a father.
Not because there's nothing I can say, there's plenty.

I'd like you to actually list a few valid examples.

If you can.

Why? What's the point?
Whose going to decide what's valid and what's not? You? Some other leftist on the forum?

After the below the belt tactics already used in this debate by you guys, no thanks.
I've got less painful ways to torture my self, like trying to understand why the misses is angry. Yes, I'd rather put my self through that then talk to indoctrinated left wingers.

Have a nice lunch and afternoon.

[Llessur2002]

Why? What's the point?
Whose going to decide what's valid and what's not? You? Some other leftist on the forum?

After the below the belt tactics already used in this debate by you guys, no thanks.
I've got less painful ways to torture my self, like trying to understand why the misses is angry. Yes, I'd rather put my self through that then talk to indoctrinated left wingers.

Have a nice lunch and afternoon.

Translation: I can't actually think of any so I'm going to duck out now and hope that no-one notices.

[monotonehell]

Rev, free speech is all well and good, but when an opinion can't be swayed by evidence there's a problem.

Most what you've said is not supported by facts. All of your talking points have been refuted, over and over, and yet people keep repeating them.

And seriously - you've pulled out every RWNJ pejorative phrase in the book: "Antifa" "Left wing fascist" etc etc. There''s extremes on both ends of the political spectrum, you seem to be living in a right wing echo chamber. How about listening to reasoned voices instead of shock jocks and the irrational?

This whole public "debate" is doing a lot of harm; as predicted.

[rev]

Why? What's the point?
Whose going to decide what's valid and what's not? You? Some other leftist on the forum?

After the below the belt tactics already used in this debate by you guys, no thanks.
I've got less painful ways to torture my self, like trying to understand why the misses is angry. Yes, I'd rather put my self through that then talk to indoctrinated left wingers.

Have a nice lunch and afternoon.

Translation: I can't actually think of any so I'm going to duck out now and hope that no-one notices.

Translation: I said my piece already, I've got better things to do then argue with indoctrinated militant left wingers who are only looking to have an argument and not a discussion.
Don't pretend either of you wants a discussion, you simply want an argument where you can shout your beliefs are correct and others are wrong. Ben jumped the gun and blew it for you.
This is the better behaved me, where Mono doesn't have to worry if I'm going to make someone cry.

I take back the have a nice lunch and afternoon.
Have a shitty lunch with a maggot filled salad(I assume you don't eat steak, that would be hurting nature, which is in line with the contradictory indoctrinated leftist stupidity you spill) and a crappy afternoon stuck in peak hour traffic.

[rev]

Rev, free speech is all well and good, but when an opinion can't be swayed by evidence there's a problem.

Most what you've said is not supported by facts. All of your talking points have been refuted, over and over, and yet people keep repeating them.

And seriously - you've pulled out every RWNJ pejorative phrase in the book: "Antifa" "Left wing fascist" etc etc. There''s extremes on both ends of the political spectrum, you seem to be living in a right wing echo chamber. How about listening to reasoned voices instead of shock jocks and the irrational?

This whole public "debate" is doing a lot of harm; as predicted.

I hate the far right wing as much as I hate the far left wing.
The far right wing though isn't in the main stream like the far left wing pretending to be mainstream normal.

I have right wing views as much as I do left wing views.
I'm a righty-lefty hybrid who doesn't have any voice in parliament. So stop trying to silence me tyrant!

[Llessur2002]

I don't think that the general public, such as myself, who...

a) Don't believe in any particular non-physiological differences between men and women, other than those which have come about through centuries of oppression of women in various forms - both obvious and casual
b) Believe that any two human beings of the appropriate age who love each other should share exactly the same rights to join together in any type of legal marriage which exists
c) Do not support the rights of people to shout views and distribute paraphernalia in public places that directly discriminates against, erodes the rights of and spreads misinformation about equal members of our society

...can really be classed as 'militant left wingers' or members of the 'far left'.

I would personally describe the above opinions as fairly mainstream and centrist. As I hope/predict will be be proven by the outcome of the SSM postal survey.

[[Shuz]]

I wonder how many people have pulled up the deckhairs and popcorn to read this hypocritical debate.