#U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

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Brando
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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#61 Post by Brando » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:00 am

Howie wrote:
Brando wrote:I am shocking with internet and companies etc. I am currently on Telstra 12gb cable for $69.95 a month with no land line connection. Anyone out there can please tell me who are the better servers out there these days..?
Hey Brando.. lucky you, at least you can get cable. Unfortunately if you want to stay on cable there's not many other options besides Telstra and Optus. If you want to go ADSL2 however, i'd be looking at a local crowd like Internode... i'm on Adam Internet myself, but will be changing back to Internode shortly.
Thanks Howie, i'll prob look at Telsra 25gb for $89.95 a month on cable or look elsewhere... and internode will be one i'll look at or Adam..... I might even go prepaid for a while as i do believe competion amongst BB will heat up soon....

ADSL doesn't bother me if i can get a landline connection plus calls for the same cost....but as i said earlier i think much more competition is still yet to be announced....:)

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#62 Post by monotonehell » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:12 am

PG is right, where ever this NBN is head quartered will just be a block of admins. Because of the distributed and virtual nature of a network, where the main office is of little consequence. It will be where ever the rent is lowest (Adelaide?) or where ever the bosses think is best (Sydney or Melbourne, next to their favourite restaurant... possibly even Canberra if the governmental influence is largest).

Most of the operational stuff will be spread out and mobile. More likely contracted to multiple small operators on the ground (like Telstra's line work is). Infrastructure will be built on contract, serviced by contractors and administered remotely.

There's no flow on effects or direct benefits for businesses to locate near a head office. The benefits are being delivered to your front door where ever you are (if you're lucky enough to be in the coverage areas). Suppliers of cable and so for construction on will need logistics that cover the entire continent. So they need to be near a logistical central distribution point. But do note that a logistical distribution point is not necessarily the same as a geographical central point and this is only a concern during construction.

The NBN is such a widely distributed beast that no single region will benefit from the set up or administration of it.
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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#63 Post by Wayno » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:32 am

Brando wrote:I am shocking with internet and companies etc. I am currently on Telstra 12gb cable for $69.95 a month with no land line connection. Anyone out there can please tell me who are the better servers out there these days..?

I have tried my own investigations, but i'm curious to hear from you guys as to the best providers these days.

Any help via here or PM would be muchly appreciated...

Thanks guys.
hey brando, are you still on a contract for your 12gb plan? i had the same deal (12gb for $69.95) but my contract ended a while ago. Only yesterday I asked telstra what could they do to give me more for less! they agreed to 25gb for ~$67 (a 25% discount off the normal fee of $89.95 for the 25gb plan). No contract either - sweet!

we're off topic a bit...
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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#64 Post by Howie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:38 am

Mono.. i'm not so sure about that. Wouldn't it make sense to put the DC where the headquarters is? And don't we already have clusters already in tech (bio and defence) here that are working well? Why not have an internet incubator hub in the CBD, so upstarts (like sens-adl for example) can learn from the NBN guys themselves how to create content for the NBN and get it on easily.

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#65 Post by Wayno » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:02 am

i think the HQ location is trivial (full of computer challenged bean counters and biz strategists). The real benefit will be spread around the country - indeed the point of this exercise is to stimulate country-wide business via the speedy nature of the NBN!

That being said, the HQ location *might* spawn *some* nearby hi-tech industries (but mainly so these startups can say to potential venture-capitalist that "we're located next to the NBN HQ - so we must be a good low-risk investment").

IMHO, the location of the DC itself is also of minor importance. Surely it's just a chilly room chocka full of racks containing low-maintenance cisco equipment - hardly requiring skilled Network Engineers, more likely requiring Network Admins and monkeys adept at earthing themselves before swapping out blades...
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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#66 Post by Howie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:13 am

That being said, the HQ location *might* spawn *some* nearby hi-tech industries (but mainly so these startups can say to potential venture-capitalist that "we're located next to the NBN HQ - so we must be a good low-risk investment").
That in itself not worth the government scraping together a proposal for the HQ?
Wayno wrote:monkeys adept at earthing themselves before swapping out blades...
:lol: :lol:

You know what gets to me the most? Technicians who wear black suits and a tie (*cough*IBM*cough*, **cough**CISCO**cough*, i j/ks).

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#67 Post by Wayno » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:19 am

Howie wrote:You know what gets to me the most? Technicians who wear black suits and a tie
you do realise these suits zip up at the back - quicker to get out of in case of fire...
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#68 Post by Howie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:37 am

Wayno wrote:
Howie wrote:You know what gets to me the most? Technicians who wear black suits and a tie
you do realise these suits zip up at the back - quicker to get out of in case of fire...
lol you better be pulling my leg.

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#69 Post by monotonehell » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:32 pm

Howie wrote:Mono.. i'm not so sure about that. Wouldn't it make sense to put the DC where the headquarters is? And don't we already have clusters already in tech (bio and defence) here that are working well? Why not have an internet incubator hub in the CBD, so upstarts (like sens-adl for example) can learn from the NBN guys themselves how to create content for the NBN and get it on easily.
Clusters of tech companies (or any companies for that matter) usually gather where being in close proximity gives advantage. Either due to them doing business with each other, for example a car parts manufacturer located near a car factory, Or to share services.

An NBN HQ really doesn't offer much at its doorstep. It's an admin block and possibly a DC. The only reason to be located near it is if you are supplying something it needs... which after construction isn't much other than power. The whole point of the Internet is that it's virtual, so content makers do not need to be near anything other than their Ethernet connection. If you're in business, the pull of your actual business activities would be greater than the pull of being near the DC with regards to location.

Think of the NBN like the road system. Not may transport businesses would consider locating next to the DTEI's main office or any of their depots. Even those who supply the DTEI with maintenance equipment (earth moving etc) wouldn't think to locate next door to it.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#70 Post by Howie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:59 pm

I think most people here are underestimating how big the DC will need to be. The organisation I work with has only has < 5,000-10,000 computers to support, yet has a DC taking up the entire two levels on a North Terrace, and most of the fibre backhaul along the strip. DC that will connect 21 million Australians.. hmm.. whatever that DC looks like i'd like to be a part of it.

It'd be redundancy ontop of redundancy ontop of redundancy, would need a constantly supply of diesel, would have a serious cabling effort, need lead acid batteries trucked in weekly..... surely there must be some advantage setting up next to the NBN? A single hop to the hub, near zero latency? There's just so many things we haven't though of yet too, who knows what else is around the corner.

Given there is an opportunity to house the HQ and the DC in Adelaide, why wouldn't we take it?

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#71 Post by Wayno » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:16 pm

does it make sense to host the DC as close as possible to the under-ocean cable to the US?
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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#72 Post by Howie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:48 pm

Wayno wrote:does it make sense to host the DC as close as possible to the under-ocean cable to the US?
Probably, so long as it's not in Darwin somewhere. 8)

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#73 Post by Brando » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:35 pm

Wayno wrote:
Brando wrote:I am shocking with internet and companies etc. I am currently on Telstra 12gb cable for $69.95 a month with no land line connection. Anyone out there can please tell me who are the better servers out there these days..?

I have tried my own investigations, but i'm curious to hear from you guys as to the best providers these days.

Any help via here or PM would be muchly appreciated...

Thanks guys.
hey brando, are you still on a contract for your 12gb plan? i had the same deal (12gb for $69.95) but my contract ended a while ago. Only yesterday I asked telstra what could they do to give me more for less! they agreed to 25gb for ~$67 (a 25% discount off the normal fee of $89.95 for the 25gb plan). No contract either - sweet!

we're off topic a bit...
Thanks mate. I'm out of contract in sept this year. I'm happy to stay with Telstra, but i too need the 25gb. When i'm up i'll push for the same deal mate. You have paved the way for me..

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#74 Post by Howie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:52 am

Article this morning.. appears to be a three horse race now. By the way, should we move this to transport/infrastructure forum?
Cities battle for NBN central

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/sto ... 06,00.html

Mitchell Bingemann | July 28, 2009

THE government may have just appointed an executive chairman to lead its ambitious plan to build and operate a $43 billion national broadband network but it is not clear which city the NBN company will call home.

NSW, Victoria and Queensland have all sought to claim the NBN headquarters, but so far only the two southern states have shown the conviction to make real bids.

Hosting the NBN headquarters promises a big lift to employment, funding and kudos for the successful city and state.

There are concerns that the final location of the NBN headquarters could be decided politically -- with some government sources saying Brisbane will be favoured as the home of Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan.

Others say Victoria's connection with Communications Minister Stephen Conroy will give it the edge.

The decision will lie, however, with the company's board which, after months of government deliberation, was given its first executive chairman at the weekend with the appointment of former Alcatel US boss Mike Quigley.

Regardless of where the NBN headquarters ends up, the same prize is on the line for each of the bidders: the creation of up to 500 direct jobs, thousands more in related private sector investment and hundreds of millions of dollars in payroll tax revenue.

Mr Quigley said it was too early to say how many of the 25,000 to 35,000 staff needed for the project would be situated at the NBN Co's head office.

That will depend partly on how much network is vended into the project by Telstra and others, as such transactions would come with staff attached.

"I have only been in the job three days so it's far too early to make those decisions," he said.

Last week NSW Premier Nathan Rees launched Sydney's bid for the NBN headquarters, forming a taskforce headed by Sydney Chamber of Commerce executive director Patricia Forsythe and NSW Chief Scientist Mary O'Kane.

Their first action was to list Redfern's Australia Technology Park, Barangaroo on the harbour, and North Ryde's Global Business Centre as possible locations for the head office.

Mr Rees said the state was well positioned to host the NBN due to the number of telecom companies based there, Sydney's role as a financial hub and the presence of the national innovation centre, National ICT Australia.

The NSW government has also said it would fast-track the construction of the NBN.

Mr Rees said Sydney's nine data centres and the fact that it accounted for 43 per cent of national expenditure on telecommunications research and development made it the ideal location for the NBN headquarters.

"It's time to confirm Sydney as the logical choice for the national broadband project," Mr Rees said last week.

"Sydney's track record of delivering big projects is a clear advantage over other cities. We delivered the Olympics, not the Commonwealth Games."

Data centres and Olympic Games preparations may not be enough to persuade the NBN board to set up shop in NSW, especially with the case that Victoria has put up.

Already the Victorian government has pumped $2 million into the recently opened $50m Institute for a Broadband-Enabled Society, located at Melbourne University, and a further $5m to develop and trial next-generation technology.

The institute is being positioned as a testbed for technology based on optical fibre networks and will be used to develop and test products and services designed to run on next-generation internet infrastructure, such as the NBN.

"This funding builds on the recent announcement of the $50m Institute for the Broadband Enabled Society, which will start the development of new fibre broadband applications," Victorian Premier John Brumby said last week.

"This is another reason why Victoria is the natural home for the NBN corporation, along with Victoria's impressive reputation in innovation and broadband technology."

Mr Brumby has cited his state's high concentration of skilled telecoms and IT workers to bolster its bid to be the NBN's home.

While NSW and Victoria have claimed infrastructure superiority and backed their bids with cash injections, Queensland has not been so dynamic.

So far the only argument for a Queensland-based NBN headquarters has come from Premier Anna Bligh's office, in the form of a claim that Victoria had Telstra and NSW had Optus, so Brisbane should get the NBN.

"Queensland is currently finalising its bid for the headquarters of the NBN. Due to Queensland being the state with the most decentralised population, Brisbane remains the best location for the effective rollout of the NBN across all of Australia," a spokesman from Ms Bligh's office said.

The man responsible for Queensland's bid, ICT Minister Robert Schwarten, said its position as Australia's fastest-growing state would strengthen its case to headquarter the NBN company.

Its bid would be made public in due course, he said.

"We regard it as a discourtesy to the Prime Minister to publicly air our submission prior to it being considered by the selection process the federal government has put in place to determine the location of the new headquarters," Mr Schwarten said.

One of Australia's foremost experts in broadband technology, Rod Tucker, said the Queensland government's decentralisation argument actually highlighted a weakness.

"I won't comment on Queensland's bid but I will say that an NBN company that is going to hire a large number of technical people will find it a much easier task if they do it where the workers currently are," Professor Tucker said.

"The cost of establishing a company where you then have to import skills and workers and their families from out of state is a big problem."

The probability of a two-horse race between Sydney and Melbourne was reiterated by a former high-ranking telecoms executive who spoke to The Australian.

"Whether it's Sydney or Melbourne it shouldn't really matter because both have the infrastructure and skilled personnel to make it work, but it's a stretch to see it in Queensland and it will be a very hard case for them to make," the former executive said.

Professor Tucker said the network headquarters needed to be in a city with a high concentration of skilled engineers and scientists. Melbourne and Sydney were the obvious choices.

"When it comes to the headquarters there will be a big design effort, so there is a need for skilled personnel in the planning and operation of the network", he said. "Silicon Valley in the US is successful because so many skilled people live in that area and are attracted to the companies housed there.

"So clearly it will be attractive to put the NBN headquarters in a place like Sydney or Melbourne, where there is a strong concentration of skilled people."

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Re: #U/C: $43billion FTTH NBN

#75 Post by Edgar » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:48 pm

Howie wrote:Article this morning.. appears to be a three horse race now. By the way, should we move this to transport/infrastructure forum?

Hosting the NBN headquarters promises a big lift to employment, funding and kudos for the successful city and state.

Regardless of where the NBN headquarters ends up, the same prize is on the line for each of the bidders: the creation of up to 500 direct jobs, thousands more in related private sector investment and hundreds of millions of dollars in payroll tax revenue.

Mr Quigley said it was too early to say how many of the 25,000 to 35,000 staff needed for the project would be situated at the NBN Co's head office.
Clearly, the advantages of having the NBN in Adelaide is clear, to create more local jobs. This will also attract our expatriates living interstate to return home.
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