Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#46 Post by Will » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:08 pm

ricecrackers wrote:
Edgar wrote: I am trying very hard to not move interstate because I still have hope that our state is going to turn its fate around, and here hoping that if it does, then at least if I stay on, we will be in a better position what that time comes around.

It's true that our political system needs a major overhaul, we are currently going through over-governance by the minorities.
life is too short mate. stay if you like the place, but by all means move or live somewhere else for a while if you want something more, because two things are for certain: 1. you wont live forever and 2. Adelaide will never change
What a shit attitude. :toilet:

How will it ever change with such an attitude?

As I have said before, the things holding back our city are those people who don't want it to change and those such as yourself, who don't think it can change.

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#47 Post by Edgar » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:45 pm

ricecrackers wrote: its got nothing to do with the minorities dictating governance. all states are faced with these issues. there are many factors which come into play, but mostly it comes down to Adelaide not being in a great location. its been pushing shit uphill ever since the first settlers arrived. the younger generation will do as they've done for the past 50 years. if they have any ambition they'll leave, if they're not risk takers they'll stay.
conservatism is the not cause of Adelaide's weak economy, its merely a symptom.

thats not to say it isnt a nice place to live, just dont expect it to ever change or be as prosperous as the other states else you'll be waiting your whole life.
We all know how minorities have a lot of says in everywhere, but it's how the government handle the situation. What I see in Adelaide is, yes the minorities have a lot to say on the vision of Adelaide's future, but opinions are opinions and should stay that way, this is where the government has to step in and provide detailed plan with business cases to convince the people. Not back off as soon as someone criticise them.

And to comment about our location is the worst thing to come out from one's mouth. I think we have one of the best location in the country, we get beautiful sheltered beaches which do not pose immediate threat of a Tsunami, unlike all of the other west and east coasts. And the hills, so close to Adelaide yet due to the lack of activity it feels so far away. You have no idea how blessed we are with our location.

Someone mentioned some years ago (all the veterans of SA you know who you are) that Adelaide is very identical to LA. The coasts and the hills are within the metropolitan area, so why should Adelaide be any different to it?

I am an overseas migrant myself, I arrived only within the last 5 years. I can choose to live in any cities I want. I was not born and raised here, so anywhere I go is a risk to me even in Adelaide. But I choose to stay because I like Adelaide with its enormous potential, it's just such a shame a lot of people including the government do not want to change and progress to up the standard of the city.

Another shame is how the big corporate companies are packing up their local divisions and move it elsewhere. Commonwealth Bank, BHP, and many more, just to name a few.

This is a sign of poor government in charge. But you know what the saddest thing is? Neither the current Labor and the Liberals are capable of delivering a change.
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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#48 Post by Will » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:06 am

Edgar wrote:
ricecrackers wrote: its got nothing to do with the minorities dictating governance. all states are faced with these issues. there are many factors which come into play, but mostly it comes down to Adelaide not being in a great location. its been pushing shit uphill ever since the first settlers arrived. the younger generation will do as they've done for the past 50 years. if they have any ambition they'll leave, if they're not risk takers they'll stay.
conservatism is the not cause of Adelaide's weak economy, its merely a symptom.

thats not to say it isnt a nice place to live, just dont expect it to ever change or be as prosperous as the other states else you'll be waiting your whole life.
We all know how minorities have a lot of says in everywhere, but it's how the government handle the situation. What I see in Adelaide is, yes the minorities have a lot to say on the vision of Adelaide's future, but opinions are opinions and should stay that way, this is where the government has to step in and provide detailed plan with business cases to convince the people. Not back off as soon as someone criticise them.

And to comment about our location is the worst thing to come out from one's mouth. I think we have one of the best location in the country, we get beautiful sheltered beaches which do not pose immediate threat of a Tsunami, unlike all of the other west and east coasts. And the hills, so close to Adelaide yet due to the lack of activity it feels so far away. You have no idea how blessed we are with our location.

Someone mentioned some years ago (all the veterans of SA you know who you are) that Adelaide is very identical to LA. The coasts and the hills are within the metropolitan area, so why should Adelaide be any different to it?

I am an overseas migrant myself, I arrived only within the last 5 years. I can choose to live in any cities I want. I was not born and raised here, so anywhere I go is a risk to me even in Adelaide. But I choose to stay because I like Adelaide with its enormous potential, it's just such a shame a lot of people including the government do not want to change and progress to up the standard of the city.

Another shame is how the big corporate companies are packing up their local divisions and move it elsewhere. Commonwealth Bank, BHP, and many more, just to name a few.

This is a sign of poor government in charge. But you know what the saddest thing is? Neither the current Labor and the Liberals are capable of delivering a change.
It has been demonstrated by numerous experiments that the human mind tends to remember negative news over positive news. This is theorised as a defence mechanism to help protect us from danger.

Hence, with this in mind, I understand your arguement. However, I feel it is wrong to a degree. For example, I do not think nostalgic minorities have the same influence as they did in the past. For example, I assume you are aware of the state government's legislative changes which stripped the ACC of having the final say for developments above $10 million as well as the state government's use of 'major project' legislation to override local NIMBYs. Indeed, the only loss has been the Victoria Park grandstand. However, with the way our brains are wired, we forget about the Newport Quays development, the St Clair development, the tram extensions, the Adelaide Oval development, the desal plant, the train extension to Seaford, the Makris development at the Le Cornu site and so on; situations where significant NIMBY threats were overcome, and instead focus on the sole example where the NIMBYs won.

Likewise, the reality is that white collar employment in Adelaide is increasing, with many companies increasing their workforces, including BHP (which moved their Australian base metals HQ from Brisbane to Adelaide). However, with the way our brains are wired, we tend to only remember the negative such as the job losses at Comm Bank and those at BHP 2 years ago. And regarding such job losses, they are not exclusive to Adelaide, but rather to the entire western world. They are not an indictment on our state government or on Adelaide, but rather on the greed of such companies who move these jobs to countries such as India, where wage costs are lower.

I agree, that there is more to be done, such as forcing more council amalgamations as well as providing greater support for start up companies, but I am confident in the future of this state. Particualrly when I read reports such as that which states that just Olympic Dam could rival the entire Pilbara region in WA in terms of production!

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#49 Post by ricecrackers » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:03 am

Will wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:
Edgar wrote: I am trying very hard to not move interstate because I still have hope that our state is going to turn its fate around, and here hoping that if it does, then at least if I stay on, we will be in a better position what that time comes around.

It's true that our political system needs a major overhaul, we are currently going through over-governance by the minorities.
life is too short mate. stay if you like the place, but by all means move or live somewhere else for a while if you want something more, because two things are for certain: 1. you wont live forever and 2. Adelaide will never change
What a shit attitude. :toilet:

How will it ever change with such an attitude?

As I have said before, the things holding back our city are those people who don't want it to change and those such as yourself, who don't think it can change.
thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life :wallbash:
If 50 million believe in a fallacy, it is still a fallacy..." Professor S.W. Carey

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#50 Post by Aidan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:28 am

Will wrote:Hence, with this in mind, I understand your arguement. However, I feel it is wrong to a degree. For example, I do not think nostalgic minorities have the same influence as they did in the past. For example, I assume you are aware of the state government's legislative changes which stripped the ACC of having the final say for developments above $10 million as well as the state government's use of 'major project' legislation to override local NIMBYs. Indeed, the only loss has been the Victoria Park grandstand.
A significant loss.
However, with the way our brains are wired, we forget about the Newport Quays development,
...which seems to have stalled.
the St Clair development,
Wrecking a popular reserve.
the tram extensions,
...with too few trams on them. And they missed the opportunity to avoid having to replace the Port Adelaide viaduct.
the Adelaide Oval development,
Better, but there are signs of budget blowouts.
the desal plant,
Expensively providing far more capacity than will be needed any time soon.
the train extension to Seaford,
On a needlessly expensive route that won't serve the suburb of Seaford Meadows very well!
the Makris development at the Le Cornu site
I'll believe it when I see it.
and so on; situations where significant NIMBY threats were overcome, and instead focus on the sole example where the NIMBYs won.
And the government are implementing even worse policies than the NIMBYs ever did :wallbash:
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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#51 Post by crawf » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:05 am

The main problem with Adelaide isn’t the never-changing skyline nor the nimbys, it’s these silly comparisons to a city of 4 million and the mentality that the ‘grass is greener on the other side’. We will never be a Melbourne, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be a vibrant buzzing city.

The negativity towards Adelaide has sadly become part of our culture and upbringing, with most of the negativity coming direct from us locals. It’s little no wonder why we sometimes feel that Adelaide is going backwards, the resources boom wont happen and life would be so much better interstate. When our main newspaper is always full of negative rubbish, stupid comparisons to Melbourne aswell as the loud vocal NIMBYs that want Adelaide to remain a large country town stuck in the 1880s. Then there is the people that want Adelaide to fail, yet strangely some of those ‘people’ still live here... Throw in the jokes from interstate, terrible infrastructure and it’s simply not hard to work out why it has become part of our culture.
I have half a dozen of friends who have already moved interstate over the last year. Another half a dozen is currently in consideration. Apply that to the overall population and you can see how bad this is affecting our state. I am trying very hard to not move interstate because I still have hope that our state is going to turn its fate around, and here hoping that if it does, then at least if I stay on, we will be in a better position what that time comes around.
This city and state are already turning around for the better, it's just most people haven't realised it yet or don't want to believe it.

For the past couple of years there has been countless small changes throughout the city that have made a positive impact on Adelaide. Including the Anzac Hwy Underpass, Bakewell Underpass, Glenelg tramway Overpass, Port River Expressway, railway upgrades, street improvements, stack load of new major retailers hitting the city, CBD developments and the Adelaide City Council losing it's power to approve or reject major developments. Not to mention our festivals continue to get bigger each year and many other changes.

This year alone we have seen the completion of the Northern Expressway, Port Rd tramline extension, Entertainment Centre Expansion and the construction of the Adelaide Oval Redevelopment and the State Aquatic Centre.

Though the biggest change has been the tramline extension and new trams, it has not only open the door for rejuvenation of the southern CBD, West End and the inner north western suburbs. But it has improved connectivity between Glenelg, Adelaide CBD and Hindmarsh and due to it's massive success it has paved the way for tramline extensions to Port Adelaide, West Lakes etc.

However next year will be the start of major changes that will change Adelaide forever. After a century of discussing whether to electrify the train network, the overhead wires will finally start being erected next year (happy day for many!). Duplication of the horrid embarrassing Southern Expressway and SA's first railway extension in 33 years will start construction next year. Though the biggest construction site will be the massive South Road Superway which will be the largest single road project in SA's history and possibly Australia's longest road bridge.

Construction will also start on the $1.7bn new Royal Adelaide Hospital, which itself will be quite a construction site (hello cranes). Other things to look out next year will be the completion of the Desal Plant and the commencement of Bowden Village, Harris Scrafe Redevelopment, many CBD projects and possibly the long-awaited Lecornu Site. There is also growing speculation that the ACC and State Government will release plans for a major overhaul of the historic height restrictions.

Aaand maybe the resignation of Mike Rann, but that's just speculation :P

While over the next 5-7 years, that barren wasteland just north of North Terrace will finally become a major state tourist drawcard including a world class stadium and expansion of the Adelaide Casino and Convention Centre.
-
After complying that post I will simply not buy into this rubbish that Adelaide is doomed and what not. When only a couple of years ago we classed the Anzac Hwy Underpass and the $31m tramline extension as major infrastructure projects, not to mention we thought we were stuck with AAMI Stadium for another 20 years or more... Look at us now!

And that isn't including the mines and defence industries


I believe this time next decade Adelaide will be in a much better position
Last edited by crawf on Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#52 Post by crawf » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:31 am

ricecrackers wrote:thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life :wallbash:
Can't be that bad, because you're still living here.

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#53 Post by Benski81 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:49 pm

I agree 100% with Crawf, and garbage like this really pisses me off so please forgive me for saying: what a pointless, piece of shit article written by someone with the journalistic talent equivalent to a retarded child trying to poke itself in the eye with a spoon (to quote david thorne). Anyone with half a brain knows that to take history and use that as a comprehensive guide to future performance is a pointless exercise in redundancy.

Crumbling implies that somehow in the future Adelaide will be worse off than it is now, and how is that going to be possible when SA has the highest population growth rate it has had in 30 years?! Is it the highest in the country? No. Are people still lured interstate? Yes. Statements of the obvious still don't change the fact that economic conditions in Adelaide are far better than they were a decade ago and as a result population growth is "above normal".

Crawf is absolutely right in pointing out the massive expenditure on infrastructure that we have seem to have become accustomed to, but do we ever stop and reflect on the fact that these projects were not possible 10 years ago? Yet that they are now?

The airport is a classic example of this, 5 years or so ago that was to me a true reflection of the sad state of SA's economy. Yet now look at it, contributes well over a $Billion to our GDP and there are plans to significantly expand it including the carpark and eventual hotel. Hell we're even getting a new air traffic control tower. Yep crumbling.

Take the convention centre expansion, as it stands right now Adelaide accounts for around 1/3 of AUSTRALIA's conventions and conferences and this translates into around 15% of Adelaide's hotel occupancy. The Allegra and new Crowne Plaza also operate at conference capacity. With the convention centre expansion it is likely that this will increase and Adelaide's national share will grow larger. And funnily enough what do we see? A proposal for a 80m+ five star hotel targeted at high end occupants. And what is this? A reflection of the altering economic conditions in Adelaide. Would this be "accommodation of the quality international business leaders expect" Ian? Did you miss the memo because you were too busy playing in your bubble of ignorance to be bothered doing some actual research for your story time?

If we look at Perth, the growth in the city has almost exclusively been driving by mining which has been the catalyst for WA's boom. So Perth is the example of the growth in demand that this can provide and how that translates across all sectors of the economy. Looking at the ABS website shows that prior to the mining boom WA had a very similar GDP to SA and now 10 years later it is around double. A quick flick through the mining thread then shows that mining is now a significant contribution to SA's GDP and growing very quickly and can therefore be the catalyst for change provided we capitalise on this like we are in the energy industry. So again - how is this crumbling???

Then there's the growing education sector with both Uni SA expanding the west end and Adelaide uni just completing the engineering building and about to flatten Union Hall to build the Photonics centre and all this has translated into the IPad, Globe Apartments and Urbanest. All the result of a growing education sector. Not to mention the two state of the art cancer research centres currently under construction.

I'm not saying we should all hold hands singing around campfires at the massive economic powerhouse that is SA, there is a lot of work to be done, particularly from an efficiency perspective if SA is going to shake off it's negative image and drive significant real growth. But crumbling - hardly.

So what then should we learn from that article? That international corporate presence only comes with the demand? That it takes time to build an economy and to turn things around? Well NO FUCKING KIDDING, thank you for that apiphony of genius Ian. The world seems so much clearer now, I was confused before but thanks to your journalistic brilliance and overall massive intellect I now understand that in order to attract corporates we first have to lay the foundations conducive to their being here.

Please take no notice of the fact that there is currently an SA record for infrastruture spending as we try to bring about a social, cultural and economic change. Just continue as you were with your head lodged firmly up your arse publishing this pointless, baseless diatribe that contains less actual information than an episode of neighbours.

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#54 Post by ricecrackers » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:10 pm

crawf wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life :wallbash:
Can't be that bad, because you're still living here.
i never said it was bad, check my posts
i was just responding to another person who said they were waiting hoping for change
If 50 million believe in a fallacy, it is still a fallacy..." Professor S.W. Carey

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#55 Post by Isiskii » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:21 pm

Can we make a memo of all the things that are happening now, or yet to happen - and then revisit this thread in a year's time with what's changed?

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#56 Post by iTouch » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:08 pm

what a pointless, piece of shit article written by someone with the journalistic talent equivalent to a retarded child trying to poke itself in the eye with a spoon (to quote david thorne)
David Thorne is what I class a true South Australian. Sarcastic, irritating to the people (cities) around him yet not afraid to stand up for his home when it gets insulted. Even to the extent that he'll create an internet phenomena to grab international media attention.

You know whats cool? These days, whenever I go onto 4chan or whatnot and I say I'm from Adelaide and people actually know where it is. They associate it to the Kates Party Facebook viral event, they associate it to the Spider bill payment, they associate it to earthquakes, they associate it to the Scientology Anonymous protests, the mass rickroll in the city, flashmob, etc.

It's the local people's negative attitude toward the city that keeps Adelaide unknown, nothing else. These days, the negative attitude is changing. The people are starting to get vision and naysayers don't like it. Haters gonna hate.
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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#57 Post by monotonehell » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:12 pm

I agree with iTouch... no wait a minute, did you say you go on 4chan???

O M G G T F O

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#58 Post by Aidan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:56 pm

ricecrackers wrote:
Edgar wrote:Mate don't get me wrong, I like Adelaide, but I hate to see when Adelaide misses all the opportunities to be even better due to the minorities who dictates the overall governance system of the state.

And 2, why won't Adelaide change? Are you never going to want to change? Don't you want Adelaide to be a better place for the younger generation?
its got nothing to do with the minorities dictating governance. all states are faced with these issues. there are many factors which come into play, but mostly it comes down to Adelaide not being in a great location. its been pushing shit uphill ever since the first settlers arrived. the younger generation will do as they've done for the past 50 years. if they have any ambition they'll leave, if they're not risk takers they'll stay.
conservatism is the not cause of Adelaide's weak economy, its merely a symptom.

thats not to say it isnt a nice place to live, just dont expect it to ever change or be as prosperous as the other states else you'll be waiting your whole life.
So the big question becomes how do we make Adelaide a great location? And I can think of four answers:

More people within range of the CIty
Companies have their important offices where they have the best range of potential employees to choose from - and easily accessible to many customers and clients. We don't just need a greater population, we need better transport links so that they can get to the City as quickly as possible.

More attractions
We need to make Adelaide a City where the people who can afford to live anywhere in the world want to live. So livability is essential, but on its own it's not enough. We need things to do. And we need to be a serious sporting and cultural rival to Melbourne.

Better air connections
Apart from increasing our population, the obvious way to do this is to lift (or more realistically, relax) our curfew - but as that's already been discussed at length elsewhere on this board, I'll skip to the non obvious way of doing it: cabotage. Allowing foreign airlines making a stop at a regional airport on the way to or from Adelaide to carry domestic passengers on the route would benefit Adelaide and northern Australia. And as smaller aircraft generally have a shorter range than bigger ones, putting in an extra stop could mean the airline might not have to attract so many passengers for the route to become profitable.

Cabotage requires Federal government approval - but is there any good reason why we can't get the Federal government to work for us?

Less damaging taxes
Though the main impediments to business are what SA lacks, there are also some it imposes. Payroll tax is the obvious one, but Stamp Duty is even worse. They should be phased out in favour of increasing land tax, which isn't so much of a problem because higher land tax = lower land costs.


We do have a lot going for us - it's time to fix the things that aren't.
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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#59 Post by Will » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:49 pm

ricecrackers wrote:[

thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life :wallbash:


You are right in saying that our location has impacted upon our comparative lack of economic development. Indeed, Mlebourne would have never become what it is today if it were not for the gold rush of the 1800s.

However, our location should not prevent us from trying. There are other industries that we can thrive in, which are not related to water, arable land and minerals. The defence industry is one that comes to mind.

I like SA the way it is, however that does not mean I don't want it to improve.

Your attitude is like someone from Elizäbeth saying "I was born and grew up in a low socio-economic area, and so I may as well give up and not try"

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Re: Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

#60 Post by ricecrackers » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:20 pm

Will wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:[

thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life :wallbash:
Your attitude is like someone from Elizäbeth saying "I was born and grew up in a low socio-economic area, and so I may as well give up and not try"
you've got some issues mate. good luck with that.

I've always achieved, innovated and succeeded in my work life but I take a long view and bigger picture outlook on matters such as whats described in this thread.

you could spend your life doing this :wallbash: and maybe you might get a tree removed or a building or two approved but it wont change the bigger picture.
get out and about a bit and you'll realize there is much more to life than trying to change the spots on your home town.
If 50 million believe in a fallacy, it is still a fallacy..." Professor S.W. Carey

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