SA Economy

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SRW
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Re: SA Economy

#361 Post by SRW » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:01 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:28 pm
Now they think by opening the flood gates and bringing in 50,000 more foreigners from the third world it will fix things.
We have a skills-based and (rightly) non-discriminatory permanent migration system. Do you think we should be barring people based on where they were born (and 'third world' is such an outdated Cold War concept)? Anyway, the people who come are usually more educated and contribute more in wealth than locals.

But I'd probably agree that most claims of so-called 'skilled shortages' by big business is really just a reluctance to meet the cost of training locals.
mostly non-integradable foreigners.
I assume you mean integrable. Evidence? I think it's clear every wave of immigration this country has seen has made it a richer, better place.
Why do South Aussies leave for Melbourne and Sydney?
Jobs and economic opportunities.

So why wont they address the reasons why people leave....
True.

But I'm not really sure what can be done. Governments tend to suck at picking winners to invest in, and there's little cash left to invest anyway after business taxes are slashed in an effort to be more competitive. I would like to see the government go gung-ho on infrastructure and education so that our economy is as furnished for productivity and innovation as possible.
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Re: SA Economy

#362 Post by Nort » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 am

rev wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:28 pm
Theyve done nothing to address it. Now they think by opening the flood gates and bringing in 50,000 more foreigners from the third world it will fix things.

Instead of creating jobs, new industries to keep our people here, and to draw in people from interstate, our politicians think bringing in mostly non-integradable foreigners is the way to go.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: SA Economy

#363 Post by rev » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm

SRW wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:01 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:28 pm
Now they think by opening the flood gates and bringing in 50,000 more foreigners from the third world it will fix things.
We have a skills-based and (rightly) non-discriminatory permanent migration system. Do you think we should be barring people based on where they were born (and 'third world' is such an outdated Cold War concept)? Anyway, the people who come are usually more educated and contribute more in wealth than locals.
The majority of people coming here from these...under developed countries, are not wealthy, and have no higher education. They end up working low paying jobs in Australia. You can see it all around you. Unless you think working for Uber, Mcdonalds or as a cleaner or security guard is a sign of economic success and prosperity.

Why do we need to be importing people to fill skills shortages, when we have high unemployment in this country?
Why isn't more being done to train people in THIS country?

The reality is that we, the tax payers, are footing the bill for resettling these people in Australia. The government wont pay for your new family car, or pay for your non-common medical treatment such as IVF. But if you are a migrant from say Bangladesh, they will, and they are. These facts don't really fit in with the concept that the majority of these people are wealthy and contribute wealth.
But I'd probably agree that most claims of so-called 'skilled shortages' by big business is really just a reluctance to meet the cost of training locals.
Listening to the Business lobbies is like listening to the motoring bodies, they are all motivated by self interest and not necessarily what's the best outcome for the wider community.
mostly non-integradable foreigners.
I assume you mean integrable. Evidence? I think it's clear every wave of immigration this country has seen has made it a richer, better place. [/quote]

Well, what it's seen as (and why), and what the reality is, are two different things, and the reasons are a whole different debate.
What most see is a new Indian restaurant, or a Nepalese festival, great success.
What most don't realize is that we have no need for so many migrants (from anywhere).
We don't have enough jobs for people here now, why are we bringing in hundreds of thousands more? (nationally)
Why do South Aussies leave for Melbourne and Sydney?
Jobs and economic opportunities.

So why wont they address the reasons why people leave....
True. [/quote]

Exactly.
But I'm not really sure what can be done. Governments tend to suck at picking winners to invest in, and there's little cash left to invest anyway after business taxes are slashed in an effort to be more competitive. I would like to see the government go gung-ho on infrastructure and education so that our economy is as furnished for productivity and innovation as possible.
Well what shouldn't be done is what's being done now.
If there are not enough jobs and opportunities, why are we bringing more people in? Why are they planning on bringing more in?
Sure, it will create a bit of work for tradies, for home builders and some new infrastructure built as new suburbs go up perhaps. And then what?
You can build new houses for all the homeless people we have as well, but they need jobs.

I don't give a shit about Pandas, and care very little for most of the crap both major parties are busy announcing that they will fund if we vote for them. The economy needs greater attention, we need more jobs, industries. Our continent is far from full, we could fit a lot more people, but before we do, we need economic prosperity...JOBS JOBS JOBS.

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Re: SA Economy

#364 Post by SBD » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:39 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:28 pm
Our population has been an issue for a long time.

Theyve done nothing to address it. Now they think by opening the flood gates and bringing in 50,000 more foreigners from the third world it will fix things.

Instead of creating jobs, new industries to keep our people here, and to draw in people from interstate, our politicians think bringing in mostly non-integradable foreigners is the way to go.

Why do South Aussies leave for Melbourne and Sydney?
Jobs and economic opportunities.

So why wont they address the reasons why people leave....
I don't think it matters where they come from. 50,000 people eat a lot of food and need houses, doctors, hospitals, schools, furniture, transport, restaurants, theatre etc., along with the logistic systems to support all of those.

Ideally, we would like an economy that manufactures and exports more than it imports. On a global scale, this is not possible. If we want to continue to export more than we import, we need policy settings to facilitate it, without reducing the "quality of life" for the population - which means we can't compete on labour costs. What attracts "foreigners from the third world" to South Australia, and why doesn't it also attract people from the eastern states or even some of our locals who choose to leave? Most of my quick answers to the first question apply to the whole country, not specifically to SA.

The more challenging question is what can and should we be building and promoting as advantages of living in SA rather than somewhere else in Australia? Weather? (only in some parts), wine? (only in some parts), natural resources (we have some, but maybe not an excess of anything relative to somewhere else, other than Uranium)? Friendly people with a welcoming nature? WHat have I missed?

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Re: SA Economy

#365 Post by rhino » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

rev wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm
Why do we need to be importing people to fill skills shortages, when we have high unemployment in this country?
Why isn't more being done to train people in THIS country?

...JOBS JOBS JOBS.
While I totally agree with you about spending money on training people, there is another reality - a lot of Australians do not want the jobs that are available. They don't want to be Uber drivers, cleaners, all-night service station checkout guys, etc. Aussies seem to have a mindset of "I'm trained, that work is beneath me", whereas migrants see it differently. We still want those rolls filled, but we (I'm generalising and collectivising here) don't want to fill those rolls ourselves. I know guys who work three different jobs, so I know the jobs are there, but I know a lot of young people who just claim that there are no jobs, because they don't want to do that work, and they're sitting around waiting to be invited to be an electronic game designer.
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Re: SA Economy

#366 Post by Nort » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:54 am

rev wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm
The government wont pay for your new family car, or pay for your non-common medical treatment such as IVF. But if you are a migrant from say Bangladesh, they will, and they are.
*Citation Needed

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Re: SA Economy

#367 Post by rev » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:14 am

rhino wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
rev wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm
Why do we need to be importing people to fill skills shortages, when we have high unemployment in this country?
Why isn't more being done to train people in THIS country?

...JOBS JOBS JOBS.
While I totally agree with you about spending money on training people, there is another reality - a lot of Australians do not want the jobs that are available. They don't want to be Uber drivers, cleaners, all-night service station checkout guys, etc. Aussies seem to have a mindset of "I'm trained, that work is beneath me", whereas migrants see it differently. We still want those rolls filled, but we (I'm generalising and collectivising here) don't want to fill those rolls ourselves. I know guys who work three different jobs, so I know the jobs are there, but I know a lot of young people who just claim that there are no jobs, because they don't want to do that work, and they're sitting around waiting to be invited to be an electronic game designer.
Of course there's always going to be lazy people and people with their heads so far up their own asses that they think taking an unskilled job is akin to becoming a second rate citizen.
But i dont think either applies to the majority of unemployed or under employed. I think if governments made it easier to attain training and/while gaining specific/relevant employment, it would address most skills shortages.

Another reality is there's financial benefits in taking on foreigners in certain industries..making it harder if not impossible for locals. Part of helping them resettle here.

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Re: SA Economy

#368 Post by SBD » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:12 am

rev wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:14 am
rhino wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
rev wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm
Why do we need to be importing people to fill skills shortages, when we have high unemployment in this country?
Why isn't more being done to train people in THIS country?

...JOBS JOBS JOBS.
While I totally agree with you about spending money on training people, there is another reality - a lot of Australians do not want the jobs that are available. They don't want to be Uber drivers, cleaners, all-night service station checkout guys, etc. Aussies seem to have a mindset of "I'm trained, that work is beneath me", whereas migrants see it differently. We still want those rolls filled, but we (I'm generalising and collectivising here) don't want to fill those rolls ourselves. I know guys who work three different jobs, so I know the jobs are there, but I know a lot of young people who just claim that there are no jobs, because they don't want to do that work, and they're sitting around waiting to be invited to be an electronic game designer.
Of course there's always going to be lazy people and people with their heads so far up their own asses that they think taking an unskilled job is akin to becoming a second rate citizen.
But i dont think either applies to the majority of unemployed or under employed. I think if governments made it easier to attain training and/while gaining specific/relevant employment, it would address most skills shortages.

Another reality is there's financial benefits in taking on foreigners in certain industries..making it harder if not impossible for locals. Part of helping them resettle here.
Another unsourced claim. What are the benefits of hiring Indian taxi drivers, Vietnamese market gardeners, Chinese fingernail polishers, Japanese mobile phone repairers, Sudanese trolley collectors, English checkout operators or any other stereotyped foreigner job? These are stereotypes, but there is no restriction on hiring Australian born workers to these jobs either.

Most Australians expect to be served in restaurants by people of the same ethnic group as the food. That might be the exception, as it felt odd to go to a local Italian restaurant run by an Indian. The food was good, but the business didn’t attract enough customers to pay its rent, because the Italian restaurant in the next suburb is run by an Italian family. That might be an exception.

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Re: SA Economy

#369 Post by rev » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:04 am

As unsourced as your claims that the migration system is fair and balanced?
Or that migrants from third world countries contribute more wealth then locals?

Im talking from real world experience and interactions.
Im not going to detail what, who, how, for a variety of reasons..one I dont disclose others personal information nor my own..especially with the unstable stalkers that exist here, and somewhat due to confidentiality legalities.

And I did not suggest there was restrictions on hiring locals.

You can believe me or not. Or go figure it out your selves. Im not here for approval, Ive said my piece, we can end this on a neutral note, or otherwise continue...

I don't expect to be served by any particular ethnic group regardless of what type of establishment it is. Marcellinas for example isnt owned by Italians, despite appearances of the logo.

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Re: SA Economy

#370 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:21 pm

rev wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:14 am
rhino wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
rev wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:56 pm
Why do we need to be importing people to fill skills shortages, when we have high unemployment in this country?
Why isn't more being done to train people in THIS country?

...JOBS JOBS JOBS.
While I totally agree with you about spending money on training people, there is another reality - a lot of Australians do not want the jobs that are available. They don't want to be Uber drivers, cleaners, all-night service station checkout guys, etc. Aussies seem to have a mindset of "I'm trained, that work is beneath me", whereas migrants see it differently. We still want those rolls filled, but we (I'm generalising and collectivising here) don't want to fill those rolls ourselves. I know guys who work three different jobs, so I know the jobs are there, but I know a lot of young people who just claim that there are no jobs, because they don't want to do that work, and they're sitting around waiting to be invited to be an electronic game designer.
Of course there's always going to be lazy people and people with their heads so far up their own asses that they think taking an unskilled job is akin to becoming a second rate citizen.
But i dont think either applies to the majority of unemployed or under employed. I think if governments made it easier to attain training and/while gaining specific/relevant employment, it would address most skills shortages.

Another reality is there's financial benefits in taking on foreigners in certain industries..making it harder if not impossible for locals. Part of helping them resettle here.
The skills shortage myth only arises when there is high unemployment. When there is high unemployment, businesses can be choosier when deciding who to hire. When there is low unemployment, the skills shortage myth vanishes.

America has seen the full cycle of this. During the Great Recession, the skills shortage myth was published in major news outlets. In 2019, with low unemployment, there is no mention of the skills shortage myth in the American media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... f26bb2aeeb

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Re: SA Economy

#371 Post by rev » Tue May 14, 2019 3:20 pm

So they are going to allow companies to pay those 50,000 foreign workers they plan on bringing here, up to 10% less then they would locals.
They've released a list of "skills shortage" jobs. It was on AdelaideNow, cant find it now.

A new Mortal Kombat movie is going to be shot here in Adelaide at studios in Glenside. 580 jobs and 1,500 extras, supposedly all South Australians.

And vehicle manufacturing is back...in the form of electric vehicles..

The ACE Cargo.

Image
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 2683da0f6f

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Re: SA Economy

#372 Post by PD2/20 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:32 pm

rev wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:20 pm
So they are going to allow companies to pay those 50,000 foreign workers they plan on bringing here, up to 10% less then they would locals.
They've released a list of "skills shortage" jobs. It was on AdelaideNow, cant find it now.

...
Who are 'they"?
rev wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:20 pm
...

And vehicle manufacturing is back...in the form of electric vehicles..

The ACE Cargo.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 2683da0f6f
Article is paywalled.

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Re: SA Economy

#373 Post by rev » Tue May 14, 2019 5:47 pm

They is the government.

It's a stupid idea topping off an even stupider idea, by a stupid government whose big economic master stroke has been to either cut spending and services, propose a pie in the sky freight airport in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, or bringing in tens of thousands of foreign workers to fill skills shortages when we have some of the highest unemployment figures in the country topped off by allowing them to be paid less money then what locals would be paid for the same jobs/work.

Surely it breaches some sort of industrial relations laws?

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SA Economy

#374 Post by Jim » Tue May 14, 2019 6:57 pm

Good news on the electric car start up and the Mortal Kombat movie


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Re: SA Economy

#375 Post by how good is he » Wed May 15, 2019 10:22 pm

I don’t know if it’s being prudent or the state Govt hasn’t got the money but I think that this Govt is lacking a big project/plan or even a big announcement from Marshall. There are trickles of economic activity but nothing I consider really bold - a legacy project if you will. Labor gave us AO and rightly or wrongly the NRAH. Is there anything on the horizon (say worth in the billions) that Marshall may actually implement in his 4 year term (or even propose after that?). Before being elected he talked about a 24/7 airport at Murray Bridge, re-routing the freight lines around the hills etc, $20m to commence the Glenelg Jetty redevelopment.. but they seem to have been all gone quiet. What is that actual plan/date for finishing the North-South Expressway, a second stadium, the new W&C hospital etc ? It seems all very vague to me. So are things actually happening below the surface or are they just being forgotten about (maybe due to a lack of $$$/resources)?

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