[CAN] [Freedom Apartments] 3x | 30m | 8lvls | Apartments

All high-rise, low-rise and street developments in the Adelaide and North Adelaide areas.
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Will
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[CAN] Re: #PRO: 273-287 Grote Street | 36m | 3 x 8 Lvls | Student Ap

#31 Post by Will » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:23 am

AtD wrote:To confirm: 9, 11 and 8 stories respectively. Any idea on the height in metres?

And why is the council worried about access to sunlight for occupants? Surely anyone who cared simply wouldn't be a tenant in the building. The rest of the concerns seem reasonable.
Building 1(the one facing Grote Street) is 8 levels and 30m tall

Building 2 (the middle building) is 10 levels and 36.4m tall

Building 3 (the rear building) is 8 levels and 28.57m tall

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: 273-287 Grote Street | 36m | 3 x 8 Lvls | Student Ap

#32 Post by peas_and_corn » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:08 pm

What about the car parks? I thought that Freedom would like their customers to be able to park their cars (as well as SAE behind it :P)

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: 273-287 Grote Street | 36m | 3 x 8 Lvls | Student Ap

#33 Post by Omicron » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:34 pm

AtD wrote:
Omicron wrote:Oh, no. We may as well just hang a sign out the front that reads 'Couldn't Afford Anything Better' or 'Here Because I'm Trying To Escape My Seven Boyfriends'. Public housing has ruined forever the notion of replicating the same residential building several times over, and that's exactly what this appears to be.
This would be a first of its kind in Adelaide, correct? There's dozens apon dozens of such developments copy-pasta in the eastern states, and I don't think they're got such a social stigma. They're just another form of housing. A lot of reasonably paid public servants live in such developments.
That's only because I don't live there to cast my (biased, untrained, subjective) disdain upon their dreadful hovels.

:wink:

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#34 Post by Howie » Mon May 04, 2009 9:30 pm

Council slams plans for student accommodation complex
Article from: The Advertiser
DANIEL WILLS

Image

May 04, 2009 09:30pm

Freedom apartments

AN ADELAIDE City Council panel has unanimously condemned plans for a student accommodation complex on Grote St

It featured 462 apartments and retail and office space.

Members of Development Assessment Panel last night labelled the proposal "absolute rubbish" and suggested it could become the site of "future slums" before voting not to support it.

The plans will now be examined by the State Government's Development Assessment Commission, which has the ultimate power of approval.

Panel members were scathing in their rejection of plans for the Freedom Apartments complex, proposed for a site currently occupied by a Freedom furniture department store, which would overlook West Tce and the adjacent parklands.

Independent member David Grieve branded the proposal "absolute rubbish" and an inappropriate development for one of the city's major thoroughfares.

"There's 680 beds in buildings one and two, and two lifts - it's just absolute rubbish. There's going to be pandemonium," he said.

"The landscaping is a joke, all these little trees are underneath the building, I don't know how they're going to grow."

Councillor Sandy Wilkinson said the plans were substandard and the buildings could become the site of "future slums" if not tenanted by international students.

"Should the bottom fall out of the student accommodation market because China's building enough universities ... what of the building then?," he said.

"I think it needs to be demonstrated ... how it could, in a meaningful way, be re-jigged so it worked for conventional apartments and not future slums."

Documents submitted by Sino Aust Investments & Development outline plans for two eight-storey towers, connected at ground level by a reception area and offices, and a separate 10-storey building dedicated to one and two bedroom student apartments.

The plans also include a 300-seat restaurant and recreational facilities including laundries and a library.

It is understood Adelaide Airports Limited has concerns over building height and will also object to the proposal.

Australia Federation of International Students South Australian treasurer Raymee Chau said affordable inner-city student accommodation was scarce and new developments should be encouraged.
I reckon they made the right call here, what do you think?

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#35 Post by Wayno » Mon May 04, 2009 9:53 pm

"Should the bottom fall out of the student accommodation market because China's building enough universities ... what of the building then?," he said.

"I think it needs to be demonstrated ... how it could, in a meaningful way, be re-jigged so it worked for conventional apartments and not future slums."
fair comment...
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#36 Post by Brando » Mon May 04, 2009 10:04 pm

.....

It is understood Adelaide Airports Limited has concerns over building height and will also object to the proposal.

.....
They made the correct call with this development. AAL is what concerns me. I'm well aware of the height limits in place around the CBD, but gee it just goes to show that our upwards rise as a city is precarious..

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#37 Post by AtD » Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm

I disagree with the rejection.

1. It's not rejected, the Council no longer has that authority, so this looks more like headline grabbing than anything. The Advertiser has also sensationalised the story, true to fashion.

2. David Grieve's comment regarding the number of lifts:
- Is there a council requirement in this regard?
- What are the actual number of lifts and beds proposed in each building? His comment is vague on this.

3. David Grieve's comment regarding the position of trees.
- Hard to say without the plans, but surely that depends on the species of tree chosen. There's many a courtyard around the country that has little or no natural light but still maintains a healthy green garden.

4. David Grieve's comment regarding the appropriateness of this building "one of the city's major thoroughfares."
- This is neither a pedestrian dense nor a high profile area. The majority of traffic is by car/bus and would take little notice of this. The ground floor is to be retail, which generally provides for a good interaction between the building an the street. Again, it's difficult to comment without plans, but surely Freedom, as the tenant, would have the street frontage as a show room or similar.

5. Councillor Wilkinson's point regarding "Should the bottom fall out of the student accommodation market because China's building enough universities" is totally inappropriate. I disagree with Wayno.
- That's a commercial consideration, not a community consideration. It's not the Council's discretion as to what is an acceptable commercial venture for a private investment with no public money at risk. They wouldn't dream rejecting an office block on such considerations. Imagine if Rundle Place was rejected because Haris Scarfe have a history of continuously teetering on the edge of bankruptcy so are not a secure tenant? Neither Wave, Edge nor 400 KWS would have been allowed to be built.
- The ACC aren't in the business of macroeconomic analysis of the global economy.
- Education enrolments increase during times of economic uncertainty, it is an anti-cyclical industry.
- Not all students are from China! Has Council joined Federal Labor in a "Reds under the bed" anti-Chinese investment viewpoint?
- Adelaide's student accommodation market is one of the very few property markets in the country where investors haven't run for the hills in the wake of the GFC. Judging from the media, it is a very tight market and set to get far worse.
- The policy of approving a development only if it can be guaranteed that it can be occupied an indiscriminate number of years into the future will inevitably lead to cronic under supply and soaring rents, ruining Adelaide's biggest competitive advantage in the lucrative education export market.
- Why shoot the only goose that is still laying golden eggs?

6. I'd also like to question Councillor Wilkinson's point regarding "future slums"
- Doesn't the council have the power to order the landlord to clean up a building (paint, etc) should it become unsightly?
- The council has already approved low-cost accommodation in much more high-profile sites than this, such as Light Square, but these are mostly commercial precincts. Poor people? Not in my back yard!

I was much more reserved when the ACC were critical of the Curry Street Curve proposal, but this just reeks of NIMBYism of the highest order. The Council goes on about attracting life and population to the city, attracting people of all classes and especially attracting young people, then rejects anything that isn't a three bedroom luxury apartment with it's own car park. Education is one of Adelaide's and Australia's biggest exports, it's a social good, an anti-cyclical industry and brings much needed life and culture into the city. What is there to lose?

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#38 Post by jk1237 » Mon May 04, 2009 10:19 pm

:lol: I enjoyed your post Atd. I didnt think the outside render/facade looked great at all, however I agree with you. If this complex is for students, then there is no need for car parks for every student, there is no problem with having the buildings close to each other, and that corner currently is repulsive, and this development will be far better and add far more pedestrian life than what is there now. These developments should not be frowned at, caus we need more density and we need more inner city housing projects but I must admit they could have done a much better job with the render and architecture.
It was no surprises that the ACC rejected it. We all knew that

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#39 Post by Prince George » Mon May 04, 2009 11:06 pm

AtD wrote: 1. It's not rejected, the Council no longer has that authority, so this looks more like headline grabbing than anything. The Advertiser has also sensationalised the story, true to fashion.
(And five other good issues with the responses given in the article)
What is particularly funny about the article is the way that it shows the Advertiser's version of balanced journalism - wildly swinging from one extreme to the other between different stories. Councillors reject plans at the Le Cornu site and the tone of the article is that they are a bunch of fuddy duddies who are bound up in the interests of their pals that live around O'Connel street; councillors reject this with much the same rhetoric and the article bristles with the righteous indignation. I dare say that we learn more about the 'tiser editorial board's feeling on development matters than we do about the issues themselvs.

As an aside, China's universities produced 7 million graduates this year, up from about a million at the start of the decade. This is giving China its own headache - what the heck are they all going to do? And from what I hear from my Chinese co-workers, much of their expansion has been by simply expanding class sizes at existing universities without necessarily increasing staff levels, leaving some question marks over the value of these degrees. This student accomodation concern ("what if we build it and no-one comes?") can best be answered by investing in the universities themselves - maintaining and improving their reputations around the world.

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#40 Post by Radelaide » Tue May 05, 2009 12:11 am

Prince George wrote:This student accomodation concern ("what if we build it and no-one comes?") can best be answered by investing in the universities themselves - maintaining and improving their reputations around the world.
HEAR HEAR

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[CAN] Re: #REJ: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#41 Post by Pistol » Tue May 05, 2009 4:50 am

Hats off to Adam - excellent post.

You have my vote for Lord Mayor when you finally move back to Adelaide.
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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#42 Post by Wayno » Tue May 05, 2009 8:40 am

I believe this proposal (at least in its current form) is dead. The DAC won't approve at risk of appearing to support a 'future slum', esp in an election year. There's no guarantee the DAC approving this will result in a nett increase in votes for labor - so why risk it.

Note: i'm not stating my personal preference here - just how i believe the govt will act based on the media circus.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#43 Post by wilkiebarkid » Tue May 05, 2009 8:57 am

Does anyone know how many of the 23,000+ international students here last year were from Cnina? I didn't know that they made up the majority.

Also, if a development of that height in that location is a worry to Adelaide Airport Ltd can they please explain in detail their concerns, because if a plane came anywhere near the top of those buildings it would be landing on West Terrace or conveniently straight into the cemetary!

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#44 Post by omada » Tue May 05, 2009 8:57 am

I agree with the council on this, what a shocking sight the apartments would be driving in from the airport, looks like something built at Glenelg in the late seventies. I'm all for increased student accomodation et al, but please developers, show some respect!

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[CAN] Re: #PRO: Freedom Apartments (Grote) | 36m | 1 x 10 + 2 x 8 Lvl

#45 Post by AtD » Tue May 05, 2009 8:59 am

If this did become a slum it'd be a very bad sign for Adelaide. It is close to such a wide variety of education and employment opportunities and has effective public transport nearby. It shouldn't become a slum because the economic rational isn't there, the rents would be too high for a welfare bum. There's no isolation as there is in the far northern suburbs.

Of course, being next to a service station, late night fast food place and a ten lane arterial road, this building will not be the Taj Mahal. If the student demand doesn't eventuate, this building would probably be occupied by working class single people and DINKs. It's well placed for such a market.

As I posted earlier, developments such as this are routine in the other major cities. If a slum did eventuate here we'd need to do a lot of soul searching as to what's wrong with Adelaide's west end.

To be honest, I think if this building is built, it'll fade into the background thanks to its earth tones and unremarkable shape. Just like the new student building on Hindley Street has.

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