News & Discussion: Redevelopment of RAH Site

[jayjay]

Finally a senisble idea from our Minister for health!!!

Bring on the plans and render.

[Vee]

I have to agree with SRW, waz, crawf and all the others who think the hub proposed by John Hill is in the WRONG place. It is so obvious that the Festival Plaza, Riverside, Elder Park precinct has so much more to offer with it's proximity to public transport, the river, recreation, entertainment, amenity... This area is crying out for revitalization and has so much potential! They just don't seem to get it!

I'd like to see redevelopment of the parade ground/Festival Centre/Elder Park precinct area, Convention Centre extension and improved riverside (to be revealed?), an upgraded sports precinct, tram extension, removing the blighted police barracks and rash of railway yards car parks etc. from the parklands & upgrading the Torrens riverbanks, walking and cycling trails beyond the weir- the west side has so much to offer for a vibrant, exciting city. These spaces interconnect and extend an area crying out for rejuvenation.
I look forward to the mystery riverside plans?

[Omicron]

No no no, Mr. Hill. Plazas, if we must have them, should be built where people already are, not somewhere else in an attempt to draw people to them. A plaza is not a destination in itself - they are fundamentally unappealing places without constant activities and events to entice people in spite of what is effectively just a big open space. Further up the road, people are already taking trains, staying in hotels, seeing shows, attending conventions and gambling - in other words, there are already thousands of people making use of the Morphett St/North Tce/KWS/Torrens area every day, and it makes far more sense to adapt this space with its ready-made market than attempt to lure people somewhere they're not currently inclined to go.

I'd also say the very same thing about a plaza on the railyards; in fact, possibly even more so. It's too far away from existing highly-patronised areas to appeal to sufficient volumes of casual walk-up attendees that a large plaza requires.

[omada]

A agree with the sentiments echoed so far...Does the State Government know what they are doing? FFS!
Why don't they concentrate on areas that are ready to be redeveloped?? Vic Square anyone???? It's all short term spin these days from the Rann Government - and no long term, macro orientated vision. Shame, shame, shame!

[Hippodamus]

totally agree with Omada.. it is really dissapointing in fact

i also thought about the riverbank, in particular the ageing public space in between the Casino, parliament house and the festival theatre... this area has the greatest potential for a public open space upgrade because it doesn't have the traffic issues associated with vic square... this space should be the one they ought to be focussing on...

[Ho Really]

You know if that place on the corner of North Terrace and King William Street (where a lot of hot air originates) wasn't there, we could have our own Federation Square. We could also have that underground railway going down King William Street.

Cheers

[stumpjumper]

This scheme has the smell of expediency, not to mention taxpayer-subsidised booze in the parliamentary bar, about it.

The proposal might hit the mark, but it might bloody well not too.

Since when are expensive and fundamental urban planning decisions made with a process like...well, like whatever process preceded this one?

What is the status of this proposal? Is it a done deal, or is it out there for comment? If it is up for comment, comment by whom? Who is asking what questions and who will listen to the answers?

Or has the scheme just been cooked up in the last few days as a political response to a political problem - the strong resistance to the relocation of the RAH, accelerated by the news this week that the sneering Melburnians are proposing a remake of their city centre?

Where's the consultation, the consideration of traffic and transport impacts, the effect on the city as a whole? Where's the costing, the detail or even outline plans, the consideration of other sites?

Remember the deliberate decision to make the west end of the city the 'entertainment and arts precinct', and the huge investment there to that end? What's going on? With the west end and the casino/Festival Centre precinct, do we even need a new 'festive hub'? Would it work properly or at all if we built it, and what would it cost?

If this is how we are to develop our city, we might as well ditch the planning system, cost/benefit analyses, expert advice, councils and any consultation process and leave the future of our city to gurus like Hill, Rann, Foley, Conlon and co, a group with no expertise in planning, no demonstrated talent in that area and whose life experience is primarily political.

This idea may hit the spot, as I suggested, but it would be a fluke if it did. No first year student of urban planning or risk management anywhere in the world would recommend procuring community amenities by a 'process' like this.

Hitler might approve the method, because it's the one he used for his unbuilt proposals to remake Berlin, but not many others would back it for developing a capital city in a democratic society.


On a constructive note, I suggest further developing the Elder Park area. There is so much there already, and there are so many options there. Building over the water, connecting the oval to the city with a fantastic bridge, bringing Government House into it (assuming we won't have a governor for ever) perhaps via a tunnel, creatively using the Torrens Lake and its banks, etc etc. The location is as central as you can get in our city, the transport links and general access are excellent.

Why start again on a less favoured site with a proposal that is likely to be no more than an uncosted, untested, ill-considered brainwave to divert attention from an unpopular project?

[Prince George]

Hitler might approve the method, because it's the one he used for his unbuilt proposals to remake Berlin, but not many others would back it for developing a capital city in a democratic society.

And we have a demonstration of Godwin's Law, and quite quickly too .

Yes, this does look very much like one of those nebulous grand plans that rear their heads as elections draw closer, and then sink out of sight again during the official campaign so that "it was never a campaign promise". At the risk of simply echoing other people, there are better locations more amenable to being worked on soon. Indeed, the last that we heard anything from the ACC about Victoria Square, it was "we hope that the State Government will come through with their side of the funding".

[stumpjumper]

And an application of Stumpjumper's Law which states that at any mention of Hitler someone will bring up Godwin's Law.

You may not have caught my edit, Prince George, which qualified the mention of Herr Hitler.

It was his autocratic method of urban planning to which I was drawing a comparison, not the man's general reputation, and in this case I think the comparison is entirely valid.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Sire.

[ricecrackers]

A agree with the sentiments echoed so far...Does the State Government know what they are doing? FFS!
Why don't they concentrate on areas that are ready to be redeveloped?? Vic Square anyone???? It's all short term spin these days from the Rann Government - and no long term, macro orientated vision. Shame, shame, shame!

the State Govt know exactly what they're doing.

the whole idea is to garner pubic support (which has been flagging) for the relocation of the RAH to the West End with a feel good popularist scheme.

see and take it for what it is.

[david]

As an Adelaide City Councillor I supported the Government’s preferred option for the redevelopment of the Royal Adelaide Hospital and I accepted John Hill’s assurances that the existing site would be returned to Park Lands, probably an extension of Botanic Gardens with heritage buildings reactivated.

The ‘surprise’ proposal for the creation of a ‘green plaza to host festival events’ similar to Federation Square may have merit but it is disappointing that this concept and how it might fit in with other plans for the city have not, to my knowledge, been discussed with either the City Council or the Capital City Committee presided over by the Minister for Adelaide.

The current Council is working assiduously on plans to regenerate Victoria Square as the principal civic and ceremonial heart of the city. Council is also awaiting State Government sign-off on plans for Elder Park and the next stage of the North Terrace boulevard, both important and significant public spaces. The Festival Plaza is another space which, in my view, is long overdue for a major upgrade to encourage public use.

Adelaide needs an exciting and vibrant ceremonial and public event space, designed to world standards and I believe that the most appropriate and logical place for it is Victoria Square especially given that the next growth areas of the city - the mother of all TOD's - will be in the western sector and with a Grote Street light rail link to the Keswick railway and the airport.

David




David

[ricecrackers]

As an Adelaide City Councillor I supported the Government’s preferred option for the redevelopment of the Royal Adelaide Hospital and I accepted John Hill’s assurances that the existing site would be returned to Park Lands, probably an extension of Botanic Gardens with heritage buildings reactivated.

The ‘surprise’ proposal for the creation of a ‘green plaza to host festival events’ similar to Federation Square may have merit but it is disappointing that this concept and how it might fit in with other plans for the city have not, to my knowledge, been discussed with either the City Council or the Capital City Committee presided over by the Minister for Adelaide.

The current Council is working assiduously on plans to regenerate Victoria Square as the principal civic and ceremonial heart of the city. Council is also awaiting State Government sign-off on plans for Elder Park and the next stage of the North Terrace boulevard, both important and significant public spaces. The Festival Plaza is another space which, in my view, is long overdue for a major upgrade to encourage public use.

Adelaide needs an exciting and vibrant ceremonial and public event space, designed to world standards and I believe that the most appropriate and logical place for it is Victoria Square especially given that the next growth areas of the city - the mother of all TOD's - will be in the western sector and with a Grote Street light rail link to the Keswick railway and the airport.

David




David

i worked in the CBD for many years in many different locations and as i see it the main problem with Vic Square is that its an island surrounded by multiple lanes of traffic, and given those roads are all diagonal it means crossing 2 sets of traffic lights to safely access the 'square'.

whats more, apart from the Grote street/Wakefield street bisection, all the dropoffs are on the opposite side of the road to the square.

i think Light Square is far better as a public space, its simply in the wrong location.

Hindmarsh square is in the right location, but so carved up by through roads its virtually useless.

[ricecrackers]

......................

[stumpjumper]

There's a concept in urban landscape design called 'desire lines'. In a newly landscaped area, the construction of paths is left until people have 'voted with their feet' - ie left beaten tracks where they prefer to walk. You then build the paths along those tracks, thereby avoiding the embarrassment of having a nice paved path with a contradictory 'desire line' - a beaten track showing where people have left the official path, preferring a track of their own.

A similar situation can apply to larger scale urban design. In other words, build facilities where people already prefer to congregate. While not always the way to go, it's not a bad rule of thumb.

That's why redeveloping Victoria Square is somewhat questionable. It's not already a place where people gather in any numbers. You'd have to be fairly confident that 'they will come' if you invested much in this location.

As a matter of interest, a similar thing is responsible for the obvious but not often recognised distortion of Light's program fore the development of Adelaide.

Light expected that the wide boulevard of Grote and Wakefield Sts would be the city's main business street, together with intersecting King William Street, and North, South East and West Terraces would be the prime residential addresses. Narrow Rundle and Hindley Streets would be minor residential streets.

In practice, the cost of carrying water for the daily needs of businesses meant that those businesses crowded into Rundle and Hindley Streets, tight and designed for residential use, but where carting water from the Torrens was a lot cheaper, or quicker and easier for someone to get by going for a walk with a bucket.

So we have the legacy of that. Myers, David Jones etc crowded into Rundle St while Wakefield St is relatively deserted.

[stumpjumper]

duplicated in next post