[U/C] 11 Frome Street | 135m | 37 Levels | Crowne Plaza / Adelaidean | New tallest

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thecityguy
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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#16 Post by thecityguy » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:46 pm

ghs wrote:
Blimp wrote:The trouble is these venues replacement/relocation aren't guaranteed, if we dont fight for our small venues such as the rhino room then we'll end up with a sterile city.
End up with a sterile city ?

Adelaide already is sterile.
Adelaide certainly isn't sterile?

I'll cop the small country town stigma.

But definitely not sterile

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#17 Post by Blimp » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:55 pm

ghs wrote:
Blimp wrote:The trouble is these venues replacement/relocation aren't guaranteed, if we dont fight for our small venues such as the rhino room then we'll end up with a sterile city.
End up with a sterile city ?

Adelaide already is sterile.
Far from sterile, Adelaide's has a great vibe to it. Heaps of charm and plenty to explore during the day & at night - I suggest you try it sometime!

If you're after sterile give Perth a visit.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#18 Post by ghs » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:44 pm

I agree that Perth is the most sterile city in Australia.

But still in a city like Adelaide where everyone stays home at night
from Sunday through to Thursday you could argue that Adelaide is also sterile.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#19 Post by Norman » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:53 pm

ghs wrote:I agree that Perth is the most sterile city in Australia.

But still in a city like Adelaide where everyone stays home at night
from Sunday through to Thursday you could argue that Adelaide is also sterile.
Not according to all the buzzing restaurants I walk past nightly on Carrington Street, Halifax Street, Market to Oval Link, Rundle Street... do I go on?

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#20 Post by monotonehell » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:02 am

ghs wrote:But still in a city like Adelaide where everyone stays home at night
from Sunday through to Thursday you could argue that Adelaide is also sterile.
Dude, I live above Rundle Street. I can attest that people are not absent Sunday through to Thursday. There's stuff going on every night. Sometimes it's detrimental to my sleep. :?
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#21 Post by ghs » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:03 am

yes please go on

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#22 Post by Patrick_27 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:23 am

thecityguy wrote:Not saying the rhino room shouldn't stay. But can someone explain why it's so important? I thought it was just a small bar/live music venue? Easily moved or replaced?


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No offence but that is a very narrow minded view, which is unfortunately the view of most people who aren't associated with the arts in this city.

I can elaborate further for you... Sure, these venues can be moved but at the cost of the venue operators; which nine times out of ten, these operators don't have an annual turnover to finance such a move. HQ is a rare example of a venue that will easily move on from their current site (mostly due to their regular crowd numbers and their staging of international artists - lot's of $$), whereas Supermild is a fine example of a venue that has really struggled to get their doors back open after their move. Furthermore, even if Rhino Room were to move, you can't simply recreate that kind of a space... Sometimes you can, but a lot of the time it’s never the same (particularly in the way of atmosphere and acoustics); the Jade Monkey whilst they've done some cool things with that place, will never be like how it was on Twin Street... Now the old site is a carpark...

The government and council approve these buildings and there is absolutely zero consideration for these venues, there is no legislative protection and if there were there is no guarantee that they'd be protected when such developments go up. Similar has happened in Melbourne with Cherry Bar; they built a residential building next door and the construction alone was very disruptive to the access of the venue, once the building was complete, there were complaints every night about the noise which lead to legal threats/demand that the venue fork out $50,000-$100,000 soundproofing the building (money these establishments simply don't have lying around). Eventually the Victorian government stepped in and established an act that would both protect live music venues from being closed in favour of development and that would provide finance for projects such as soundproofing (where required).

What gets me is that the council are so opposed to pop-up venues during the Fringe, but they fail to protect those buildings that are actually useful alternatives. I don’t see establishments such as Sugar or Distil providing their space as a Fringe venue.

What I would like to see if any development on this site is to go ahead... Build on the site of the carpark; acquire the Teds camera shopfront on Rundle Street; use that site as a pedestrian access point to the building (a covered laneway); vehicle entry via Tavistock Lane; then keep the bottom 50% of the eastern wall of this building blank and maintain the Rhino Room building and Eckersley building, they can then sell the land wedged between the two for retail... If the pedestrian access via Rundle Street can't work, have the access via the land wedged between the Rhino Room and Eckersley's on Frome Street but still have enough blank wall on that eastern side of the building to keep any noise out of apartments. Alternatively you could buy one of the warehouses on Synagogue Place an have access from that side... The problem with all of these ideas, it's Adelaide, developers couldn't give a fuck about spending a little bit more on quality finishes, respecting surrounds, or respecting any heritage elements on the site... Whereas in Melbourne, they usually do.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#23 Post by thecityguy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:32 am

Patrick_27 wrote:
thecityguy wrote:Not saying the rhino room shouldn't stay. But can someone explain why it's so important? I thought it was just a small bar/live music venue? Easily moved or replaced?


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No offence but that is a very narrow minded view, which is unfortunately the view of most people who aren't associated with the arts in this city.

I can elaborate further for you... Sure, these venues can be moved but at the cost of the venue operators; which nine times out of ten, these operators don't have an annual turnover to finance such a move. HQ is a rare example of a venue that will easily move on from their current site (mostly due to their regular crowd numbers and their staging of international artists - lot's of $$), whereas Supermild is a fine example of a venue that has really struggled to get their doors back open after their move. Furthermore, even if Rhino Room were to move, you can't simply recreate that kind of a space... Sometimes you can, but a lot of the time it’s never the same (particularly in the way of atmosphere and acoustics); the Jade Monkey whilst they've done some cool things with that place, will never be like how it was on Twin Street... Now the old site is a carpark...

The government and council approve these buildings and there is absolutely zero consideration for these venues, there is no legislative protection and if there were there is no guarantee that they'd be protected when such developments go up. Similar has happened in Melbourne with Cherry Bar; they built a residential building next door and the construction alone was very disruptive to the access of the venue, once the building was complete, there were complaints every night about the noise which lead to legal threats/demand that the venue fork out $50,000-$100,000 soundproofing the building (money these establishments simply don't have lying around). Eventually the Victorian government stepped in and established an act that would both protect live music venues from being closed in favour of development and that would provide finance for projects such as soundproofing (where required).

What gets me is that the council are so opposed to pop-up venues during the Fringe, but they fail to protect those buildings that are actually useful alternatives. I don’t see establishments such as Sugar or Distil providing their space as a Fringe venue.

What I would like to see if any development on this site is to go ahead... Build on the site of the carpark; acquire the Teds camera shopfront on Rundle Street; use that site as a pedestrian access point to the building (a covered laneway); vehicle entry via Tavistock Lane; then keep the bottom 50% of the eastern wall of this building blank and maintain the Rhino Room building and Eckersley building, they can then sell the land wedged between the two for retail... If the pedestrian access via Rundle Street can't work, have the access via the land wedged between the Rhino Room and Eckersley's on Frome Street but still have enough blank wall on that eastern side of the building to keep any noise out of apartments. Alternatively you could buy one of the warehouses on Synagogue Place an have access from that side... The problem with all of these ideas, it's Adelaide, developers couldn't give a fuck about spending a little bit more on quality finishes, respecting surrounds, or respecting any heritage elements on the site... Whereas in Melbourne, they usually do.
Not narrow minded, just don't know much about the place, it's not my scene and hence I didn't understand its significance.

I agree with many Adelaide developers not willing to spend a little extra. I'm all for a solution which sees the rhino room stay but the development also go ahead

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#24 Post by Blimp » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:36 am

Well said Patrick, you've said what my lazy self couldnt be arsed typing :lol:

lets hope the developers take the rhino room and all its cultural importance into account and works to integrate it into this development in a quality manner, although I wont be holding my breath for this to happen.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#25 Post by Waewick » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:08 am

but did the who thing need to start with no offence.

people needd to toughen up! if you offend someone with your words so be it.

but, I would hope if the Rhino Room is impacted, they make the appropriate assistance to move them to a new facility similar to the Jade Monkey (well assistance that came a nearly too late)
Last edited by Waewick on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#26 Post by mshagg » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:23 am

I think the issue I have with the framing of these concerns (which are perfectly valid by the way) is the lack of demonstrable, confirmed cases where "apartment building went up and yuppies had the venue next door shut down". Frankly I think it's a bit of an old wives tale/urban myth.

People will cite the jade monkey as an example of the cost of development, but AFAIK the landlord cashed in the site and the jade, as tenant, was told to pack up. Should we put a gun to the landlord's head and force them to continue letting to a specific tenant because we view them as culturally significant?

It's not like the venues are allowed to pump noise out carte blanche anyway, all have existing conditions regarding permitted noise levels. If they choose not to observe those agreed limits, it's on them.

By all means let's support the rhino room... but let's also maintain cool heads about it.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#27 Post by Nathan » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:39 am

mshagg wrote:I think the issue I have with the framing of these concerns (which are perfectly valid by the way) is the lack of demonstrable, confirmed cases where "apartment building went up and yuppies had the venue next door shut down". Frankly I think it's a bit of an old wives tale/urban myth.
Just in that immediate area, the Exeter had to stop having gigs in the beer garden and move them into that small room at the front when the apartment buildings went up behind. The Austral also had to build that "bunker" at the back, at great expense, to appease the apartments on Bent St.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#28 Post by Norman » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:53 pm

Is the Rhino Room really that noisy anyway? I thought it was mainly a comedy house.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | Hotel and apartments

#29 Post by rev » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:30 pm

thecityguy wrote:Not saying the rhino room shouldn't stay. But can someone explain why it's so important? I thought it was just a small bar/live music venue? Easily moved or replaced?


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I don't particularly care as I think a small venue shouldn't stand in the way particularly if the site has been sold.
But the issues I can think of with relocating is the feel or vibe, the ambience of a venue.
Once that vine is lost they may as well close the doors.

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[U/C] Re: 11-27 Frome Street | ~120m & 70m | 35 & 20 Levels

#30 Post by Ben » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:14 pm

Can't wait to see the renders. Another 100m plus tower.
11 Frome Street, ADELAIDE SA 5000
Description: Demolish existing buildings and construct two (2) buildings -
Building 1 Mixed use - with lobby, tenancy and plant room on ground, 20 level residential with roof top terrace
Building 2 - mixed use carparking and residential with Level 11-20 serviced apartments - Level 22-34 private apartments.

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