[APP] Adelaide Oval Hotel

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[APP] [APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#211 Post by bits » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:36 am

The kiosks are tiny and support the use of the parklands, only those that want the parks as only grass would be against them.
The hospital is to better the people of the state, how is that not good use of parklands?
The casino gave the city a 24/7 venue with very effective security control. It is popular with tourists. It does fill a gap not filled by any other business and is special. Was any private company willing to build a casino not on parklands?

The Adelaide Oval Hotel is an ordinary basic hotel. Adelaide has endless examples of private business building on general land offering Adelaide that facility. There is not some shortage of ordinary hotels Adelaide is desperate to correct.
We don't need to offer premium land to make the business case work.
Are views to the wall of the oval? Nope they are to the parklands. So is its special purpose that it is attached to the oval or that it is in the parklands? No one books tickets to a major event and then can't work out how to book a hotel. No one refuses to book a major event because they need to transit from their hotel to the event.
The hotel adds almost nothing to the state and apparently requires special privileges to do it.

SMA is not for profit which only means the owners do not get a dividend of profits. SMA does make a profit, it just can't pay it as a dividend. The managers do get paid based on the profit SMA make. Those that proposed and want to see the hotel built will see an increase in their pay from SMA profits if it is built.
SMA need to fund the running and maintenance of the oval, they also pay in to local sport. SMA is its own company and can fund those activities via whatever, it doesn't have to make its money on parklands.

The park lands doesn't need to completely block private business, each proposal should be judged on what it offers. Does it add something Adelaide wants that it would not otherwise get.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#212 Post by JAKJ » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:03 pm

floplo wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:06 pm
JAKJ wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:28 pm

The private development creep on the parklands on the other hand must be stopped. We all know that this hotel is not actually taking green space, but what it is doing is allowing private interests to commercialise what is currently a public space (Yes we can also put forward the Casino, intercontinental, Walker tower etc in this category however the southern edge of North Terrace has long been developed and has been lost as parklands for more than a century). If we allow this commercial precedent to be set, how long before we have other groups wanting to create commercial non-public developments at say the Aquatic Centre? Or the Crow's proposed training centre? When will it stop?

To summarise, appropriate development on the parklands for public benefit (e.g. public hospital, Adelaide Oval, Zoo, other sporting facilities etc.) are okay, development for private profit making businesses not okay. It's really not that hard.
The problem is that there is enough precendent that the parklands are used for private profit making business (from the Casino, to the Hill of Grace restaurant to the Kiosks in Rymill Park and sport facilities, to the tree top walk, Lot14 spaces for startups, etc. And most, if not all of these have a larger footprint), yet the proposed Oval hotel is actually organized (and maybe even operated) by a non-profit organization with a public purpose. Also, aren't hotels under some form of public accommodation laws (not sure how the legal situation is in Australia), so they would be even more accessible than many of the sporting facilities in the parklands. In a public vs private debate, the proposed hotel is actually more on the public side than other things already happening in the parklands.

Oppose it on aesthetic and similar grounds all you want, but the public vs private one just seems very inconsistent (and to be honest, for the council I would even call it either petty or hypocritical)
As mentioned the development of the northern end of North Terrace is an established precedent for over 100 years, while technically originally parkland that ship has sailed. What we can do now is stop development creep outside that precinct. This hotel isn't the worst example of potential commercial development of the parklands but it will embolden other developers to try their hand and commercialising other previous public spaces that aren't technically "public greensapce" e.g. the Acquatic centre and the council green wast depot. There needs to be pushback against the development creep.

When comparing the hotel development to other commercial enterprises in the oval it is at a significantly different scale and duration to say a restaurant, bars or tourism ventures that would operate under relatively short term commercial contracts. The issue here is not private companies undertaking business in public facilities on parklands, that happens all the time with festivals, circuses, events etc. that enhance them as a space. The hotel represents something much more permanent which is not wholly aligned with the purpose of the AO as a public sporting facility.

Finally, if we were judging the hotel on purely aesthetic elements:
1) From the renders provided this will distort the proportions of the Eastern stand - real risk of looking like a tacked on mess
2) Knowing Adelaide developments built to a price, significant risk of the finishing and the facade being underwhelming vs current standard
3) Worst of all - renders indicate that the glass will be see-through leading to an incredibly messy visual effect of either seeing drawn curtains in various states or directly inside the rooms, not a great look.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#213 Post by rev » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm

It's not being built on parkland.
Get over it and stop whinging.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#214 Post by Nort » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:36 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm
It's not being built on parkland.
Get over it and stop whinging.
He's just saying no, someone told us that's ok.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#215 Post by rev » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:56 am

Nort wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:36 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm
It's not being built on parkland.
Get over it and stop whinging.
He's just saying no, someone told us that's ok.
You're quite a sad individual.

Enjoy arguing in circles.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#216 Post by HiTouch » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:06 pm

We've gone from
rev wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:56 am
Nort wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:36 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm
It's not being built on parkland.
Get over it and stop whinging.
He's just saying no, someone told us that's ok.
You're quite a sad individual.

Enjoy arguing in circles.
Wasn't that the majority of the original Adelaide Oval Redevelopment thread? I don't see this as any different in regards to the arguments. In fact, most of the arguments are the exact same themes. (e.g. Aesthetics, Location, Price and Process). Is there anything wrong with that discussion?
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:55 am
If the parklands are so important why dont they put it to a vote state wide? Or are they afraid the majority will back this hotel..

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#217 Post by Honey of a City » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:23 pm

Hill of Grace Restaurant is closing until late 2019 to undergo renovations as part of the hotel build.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#218 Post by Ser Noit of Loit » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:33 pm

I don't know what the latest is with this development, but I'm still against it b/c it'll be covering the architecturally appealing eastern stand. Yes Adelaide Oval isn't the same as the Eiffel Tower or St Pauls, but you've got to start somewhere and have pride in what we do have. Pity that the the Parklands preservation lot don't make for convincing defenders against the hotel due to their reputation.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#219 Post by wilkiebarkid » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Ser Noit of Loit wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:33 pm
I don't know what the latest is with this development, but I'm still against it b/c it'll be covering the architecturally appealing eastern stand. Yes Adelaide Oval isn't the same as the Eiffel Tower or St Pauls, but you've got to start somewhere and have pride in what we do have. Pity that the the Parklands preservation lot don't make for convincing defenders against the hotel due to their reputation.
I absolutely love the whole concept. Construction begins in May. Bring it on.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#220 Post by ynotsfables » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:31 pm

You'll probably find that the appealing eastern stand will probably be replace with a more appealing hotel, I say bring it on too is an Australian first.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#221 Post by Waewick » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 pm

You do have to laugh at this architectural merit stuff.


It's an ok sports stadium.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#222 Post by rev » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:37 am

Waewick wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 pm
You do have to laugh at this architectural merit stuff.


It's an ok sports stadium.
Barely.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#223 Post by Honey of a City » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am

Waewick wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 pm
You do have to laugh at this architectural merit stuff.


It's an ok sports stadium.
Or you could laugh at a very less than ordinary hotel hanging off the front of your ok sports stadium. Thing is, it’s not that funny.

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#224 Post by rhino » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:07 am

FWIW, I actually think it's an awesome looking sports stadium.
cheers,
Rhino

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[APP] Re: Adelaide Oval Hotel

#225 Post by Jaymz » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:17 am

I'm surprised by the comments above. AO is without doubt the best looking stadium in Australia, it's clam-shell design is
unique. The gaps between the stands that house the big screens is also different to the norm. Throw in the hill and old
scoreboard and it's almost perfect.

It's not your typical concrete bowl like the MCG and Perth, the GABBA barely rates as a major stadium any more plus it's
in a terrible location. For me the SCG is the only one that comes close.

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