News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[SBD]

No point upgrading the station if there's no service further to the east

Perhaps dual track to Gawler Central (formerly North Gawler) is necessary to provide the intended frequency of services out to Concordia/Kalbeeba/Sandy Creek?

Also, the "service" does not have to be trains - there is a point in upgrading the station even if it is as bus interchange and park-and-ride for Willaston and Hewett (not served by existing railway tracks anyway), Roseworthy, Gawler East and beyond. That's why I thought the building in the picture might be denser parking. The canopies on the car park the other side look like the ones at Coles, and the train looks a bit like a blue version of the 4000 class.

The services you speak of (transport hub) are already available at Gawler Station, where there is also ample parking. There is actually no need for Gawler Central to be a transport hub as such, as long as the bus routes go through the main street, and the train route has a station there.

Given the chronic traffic paralysis in the Gawler main street, there is a definite argument for limiting the need for people to drive from the north or east to Gawler Railway Station. Driving from Willaston and Hewitt to Gawler RS involves passing Gawler Central. Extending rail service to Lyndoch Road (Concordia) or Calton Road (Kalbeeba) with a large car park might result in induced demand, but would also reduce the people driving down Lyndoch and Calton Roads into the main street. The new Gawler East Link road will also address that, so more parking might be needed at Evanston or Tambelin stations.

[rhino]

Perhaps dual track to Gawler Central (formerly North Gawler) is necessary to provide the intended frequency of services out to Concordia/Kalbeeba/Sandy Creek?

Also, the "service" does not have to be trains - there is a point in upgrading the station even if it is as bus interchange and park-and-ride for Willaston and Hewett (not served by existing railway tracks anyway), Roseworthy, Gawler East and beyond. That's why I thought the building in the picture might be denser parking. The canopies on the car park the other side look like the ones at Coles, and the train looks a bit like a blue version of the 4000 class.

The services you speak of (transport hub) are already available at Gawler Station, where there is also ample parking. There is actually no need for Gawler Central to be a transport hub as such, as long as the bus routes go through the main street, and the train route has a station there.

Given the chronic traffic paralysis in the Gawler main street, there is a definite argument for limiting the need for people to drive from the north or east to Gawler Railway Station. Driving from Willaston and Hewitt to Gawler RS involves passing Gawler Central. Extending rail service to Lyndoch Road (Concordia) or Calton Road (Kalbeeba) with a large car park might result in induced demand, but would also reduce the people driving down Lyndoch and Calton Roads into the main street. The new Gawler East Link road will also address that, so more parking might be needed at Evanston or Tambelin stations.

I agree, a park and ride or second transport hub at Concordia or Kalbeeba would be beneficial - but for the reasons you have mentioned (clogging the main st, for example), I don't believe Gawler Central is the place for it.

[English Electric]

In ARS this morning:

A couple of other observations regarding these red repaints...

• Car 3122 was in service in the morning peak on Wed 2 May with this same colour scheme. Its companion (3121?) was still in the normal yellow, blue & red.
• Also on Wednesday another single, unpaired 3100 railcar was shunting around Dry Creek depot, also with the red-painted driving end. This had no car number transfers (or headlight) so I couldn't identify which it is, and was obviously in process of being repainted.
• A good few other DEMUs have been out in service or stabled in the North Yard, still with yellow ends, but with all of the blue & red and part of yellow paint stripped from the conventional driving-end livery scheme.

So it looks like this is the new look of Adelaide's 30-year-old diesel railcars.

[ChillyPhilly]

Good to see Sensational Adelaide members getting involved.

[mawsonguy]

I am concerned that almost all the discussion regarding metropolitan heavy rail centres on the issue of electrification. There is only limited discussion on how to implement express services over longer distances (e.g. Seaford and Gawler). There will always be a conflict between the need for high-speed express services (which stop at relatively few stations) and demands for all stop services which service the small intermediate stations. Ultimately, express capacity on the lines will be limited unless intermediate stations are demolished or passing loops are installed. Ideally they should start by installing some passing loops at the stations where it is relatively easy to do so due to lack of space constraints or the low cost of purchasing adjoining land (e.g. Nurlutta, Elizabeth South). I'd be intersted to hear:

• Which Stations on the Seaford line would be appropriate for passing loops
• What the cost would be for a passing loop on level ground
• The space requirements for a passing loop

[claybro]

I am concerned that almost all the discussion regarding metropolitan heavy rail centres on the issue of electrification. There is only limited discussion on how to implement express services over longer distances (e.g. Seaford and Gawler). There will always be a conflict between the need for high-speed express services (which stop at relatively few stations) and demands for all stop services which service the small intermediate stations. Ultimately, express capacity on the lines will be limited unless intermediate stations are demolished or passing loops are installed. Ideally they should start by installing some passing loops at the stations where it is relatively easy to do so due to lack of space constraints or the low cost of purchasing adjoining land (e.g. Nurlutta, Elizabeth South). I'd be intersted to hear:

• Which Stations on the Seaford line would be appropriate for passing loops
• What the cost would be for a passing loop on level ground
• The space requirements for a passing loop

Has been mentioned here before, but Edwardstown and Woodlands could be amalgamated to one station closer to Castle Plaza. Seaford trains could also express through Wayville, Clarence Park and Emerson with more frequent Tonsley trains all stops taking in those stations. Wayville could be added to the Seaford stops maybe at royal show times only. There shouldn't be a need for passing lines even at 10-15 minute frequencies for both lines. Really though, Maswon Guy is right, just throwing up some wires and some new electric trains is so far from where the upgrade should be at. Adelaide just cannot seem to get trains right. The fear is that Gawler and OH will be the same. Crappy operation and crappy stations with new wires and trains capable of 130km/h. Same with the trams. Crappy slow operation of newer faster equipment.

[OlympusAnt]

they have to grade separate the Raglan Ave crossing first, that's a massive bottleneck

[SBD]

I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.

[Goodsy]

I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.

If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length

[SBD]

I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.

If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length

I suspect that a significant extra cost of installing separate express and local tracks would be a need to grade separate a number of additional level crossings. Park Terrace in Salisbury is a given, but Kings Road and Commercial Road might also be needed with potentially twice as many trains at the times when the roads are busiest too. I'd add Womma Road and Curtis Road if the duplication went that far north (and close Anderson Walk per the plans of twenty years ago). There are five more level crossings in the inner suburbs that should be on the plans to bridge or close where they cross both the Gawler and standard gauge lines.

[Norman]

I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.

If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length

Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.

[Joelmark]

Can anyone actually confirm that we are going to receive the $220 milllion from the Feds for the completion of the Gawler line electrification, as in is it in the forward estimates, or is it just a future unaccounted for promise?

[Goodsy]

Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.

Oh yeah.. whoops.

in any case, the Northern Connector rail portion would give us a new spur almost all the way to Virginia.. Although it would be standard gauge

[SBD]

Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.

Oh yeah.. whoops.

in any case, the Northern Connector rail portion would give us a new spur almost all the way to Virginia.. Although it would be standard gauge

Would the existing standard gauge route be closed, or simply receive a lot less traffic?

Even if it were to be mostly closed, there would remain a spur from the new route to the intermodal facilities at Penfield for SCT and Treasury Wines/Trebuchet Logistics.

[aaronjameslange]

Would the Gawler line need to be closed for the electrification? All the rails and ballast etc were replaced a couple of years ago which means theoretically diesel trains could run under the new wires until the power gets turned on. Poles and gantries could be done interpeak, or nights / weekends. Hopefully not looking at months of bus substitutes. Would the entire dry creek depot be done at the same time. I would think that it would