News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Eurostar]

At least SA Labor Party whilst in government had vision to improve and extend our railway network. Knoll has shown no vision of what his government is going to do with the rail network besides privatisation. The only projects SA Liberals have commenced is ones proposed by the previous government.

Not quite true. GlobeLink is a vision with a rail component. How it stacks up economically is still being determined, but I have no problem with the idea that it should be tested for value rather than being built for purely ideological reasons.

And I bet they will shelf it

[SBD]

At least SA Labor Party whilst in government had vision to improve and extend our railway network. Knoll has shown no vision of what his government is going to do with the rail network besides privatisation. The only projects SA Liberals have commenced is ones proposed by the previous government.

Not quite true. GlobeLink is a vision with a rail component. How it stacks up economically is still being determined, but I have no problem with the idea that it should be tested for value rather than being built for purely ideological reasons.

And I bet they will shelf it

Maybe - but I suspect the rail component is likely to be the most viable part of GlobeLink at this time. Getting most of the freight trains off of the steep and winding Adelaide Hills line has to be beneficial.

The trouble is that the rail component (and the airport) are all-or-nothing big-ticket infrastructure that can't be practically broken into lower-priced incremental benefits. The Road component can be done in bits (Truro bypass, extend four lanes from Nuriootpa to past Truro, duplicate Swanport Bridge, SE Freeway to north of Monarto, Sedan bypass etc) which each have an immediate benefit.

[ChillyPhilly]

The airport component of GlobeLink is completely unnecessary.

[SBD]

The airport component of GlobeLink is completely unnecessary.

Yes, but the point in this forum is about new and upgraded rail infrastructure. I was already on the edge of the topic because Globelink rail will not be in the Metro area, and unlikely to carry passengers.

[Spotto]

Was travelling city-bound on the Gawler Line from Salisbury station this afternoon around 1:30. Train was already pretty full with BBL-goers when I got on and became progressively more full until we reached Mawson Lakes and the masses of BBL-goers on the platform piled in. All available space was filled. The number of carriages on that train... two... The free open gates at Adelade station were also swamped; the regular paid gate line was pretty clear to walk through after squeezing through the BBL queue at the free gate.

The bright side of this is once the line is electrified the minimum number of cars per train set will be three, have open gangways and the aisles will be wide enough for adequate standing room and comply with accessibility guidelines. When the diesel stock were renewed it would've been the perfect time to lop off the third seat in the 2+3 rows (the third seat is basically stuck to the side of the structure that supports the main two seats so cutting it off doesn't cause any structural issues).

[Eurostar]

Its a pity our train seats on the electric can't be turned around so you can face forward even the latest Waratahs in NSW have them.

Now that Gawler is expanding its a pity we don't have a third track which will allow trains to be express between Gawler and Adelaide.

[ginzahikari]

Was travelling city-bound on the Gawler Line from Salisbury station this afternoon around 1:30. Train was already pretty full with BBL-goers when I got on and became progressively more full until we reached Mawson Lakes and the masses of BBL-goers on the platform piled in. All available space was filled. The number of carriages on that train... two... The free open gates at Adelade station were also swamped; the regular paid gate line was pretty clear to walk through after squeezing through the BBL queue at the free gate.

The bright side of this is once the line is electrified the minimum number of cars per train set will be three, have open gangways and the aisles will be wide enough for adequate standing room and comply with accessibility guidelines. When the diesel stock were renewed it would've been the perfect time to lop off the third seat in the 2+3 rows (the third seat is basically stuck to the side of the structure that supports the main two seats so cutting it off doesn't cause any structural issues).

Excuse my ignorance, but are the platforms long enough to fit 6-car train sets?

[Norman]

Was travelling city-bound on the Gawler Line from Salisbury station this afternoon around 1:30. Train was already pretty full with BBL-goers when I got on and became progressively more full until we reached Mawson Lakes and the masses of BBL-goers on the platform piled in. All available space was filled. The number of carriages on that train... two... The free open gates at Adelade station were also swamped; the regular paid gate line was pretty clear to walk through after squeezing through the BBL queue at the free gate.

The bright side of this is once the line is electrified the minimum number of cars per train set will be three, have open gangways and the aisles will be wide enough for adequate standing room and comply with accessibility guidelines. When the diesel stock were renewed it would've been the perfect time to lop off the third seat in the 2+3 rows (the third seat is basically stuck to the side of the structure that supports the main two seats so cutting it off doesn't cause any structural issues).

Excuse my ignorance, but are the platforms long enough to fit 6-car train sets?

On the Seaford Line, there are a handful that do not, including Mile End and Marion.

On the Gawler Line, there are a few that are not long enough, for example Mawson Lakes can only fit 4 from memory.

[[Shuz]]

There's room to build a third track from Islington onwards. The chokepoint would be Salisbury.

[Spotto]

Its a pity our train seats on the electric can't be turned around so you can face forward even the latest Waratahs in NSW have them.

Why is this necessary? Don’t the reversible seats take up more space than fixed seats?

Now that Gawler is expanding its a pity we don't have a third track which will allow trains to be express between Gawler and Adelaide.

There’s certainly plenty of room beyond Islington, the corridor’s pretty wide.

On that note, Islington would’ve been a good spot for a bus interchange especially with all that formerly vacant land next to it. Won’t happen now.

[rhino]

Now that Gawler is expanding its a pity we don't have a third track which will allow trains to be express between Gawler and Adelaide.

Is an express train between end points a good idea? Will the trains be full? Wouldn't it make more sense to run express from the station where the train fills up (wherever that is), rather than from the end point?

[TorrensSA]

It's about people thinking they're more entitled to a service because they travel further. What we need is a higher frequency service so people use it, express services will cause longer wait times, especially services that express a lot of stations. A minimum 15 minute service is needed during the daytime on the Gawler line, why should someone at say Womma have a half hourly service so the person from Gawler can save 5mins, seems pretty unfair. The peak pattern is also pretty unfair, Gawler gets a fast express while other stations are at a 30min frequency. The timetable is outdated, Womma should be seeing a lot more services, it's close to the new estate of Eyre and is very easy access from the eastern Elizabeth suburbs. The Gawler line is 42 km long with 26 stations and takes an hour for an all stops train, which means it's quicker to get the train than drive. The fastest express takes 48mins and skips 18 stations, if we increase the frequency of all stations and say an average of 5 people per station thats 90 people who have been skipped. So somehow Johnny from Gawler is more important than the 90 people waiting for a train at the 18 skipped stations, so he can save 12mins. Higher frequency is needed before we need crazy express trains.

[rubberman]

It's about people thinking they're more entitled to a service because they travel further. What we need is a higher frequency service so people use it, express services will cause longer wait times, especially services that express a lot of stations. A minimum 15 minute service is needed during the daytime on the Gawler line, why should someone at say Womma have a half hourly service so the person from Gawler can save 5mins, seems pretty unfair. The peak pattern is also pretty unfair, Gawler gets a fast express while other stations are at a 30min frequency. The timetable is outdated, Womma should be seeing a lot more services, it's close to the new estate of Eyre and is very easy access from the eastern Elizabeth suburbs. The Gawler line is 42 km long with 26 stations and takes an hour for an all stops train, which means it's quicker to get the train than drive. The fastest express takes 48mins and skips 18 stations, if we increase the frequency of all stations and say an average of 5 people per station thats 90 people who have been skipped. So somehow Johnny from Gawler is more important than the 90 people waiting for a train at the 18 skipped stations, so he can save 12mins. Higher frequency is needed before we need crazy express trains.

The reason is simply because trains only work when they are able to get up to speed. Otherwise, trams/light rail can do the job better.

At this point, I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, I might add.

However, the first thing to do is ask what service we need. If that's stopping frequently at small stops with one or two people, then trams it is. Heavy rail is not meant for that, trams will always be able to out accelerate heavy rail over short distances, and are much cheaper to run and maintain. If, on the other hand, you have 5km between stations, or more, ie express runs, or big numbers of passengers at a station, then heavy rail beats trams and light rail, hands down.

So, the question is, what do we want? Lots of stops/stations, even with one or two passengers boarding? Thus, trams. Or few stops, high speeds many passengers boarding? Thus heavy rail.

Part of the issue is this: If you don't get travel times down to be competitive with cars, you simply aren't going to get people using public transport unless they have no choice. Heavy rail, stopping at many stations serves those with no choice, but won't get people out of cars. In that case, why not use trams? Those without choice are no worse off, and it's cheaper. Heavy rail, serving much fewer stations (ie express) has a chance of getting people out of cars if it is fast enough.

So, what do we want? To service lots of stops? Fine, let's have trams. To get people out of cars? Fine, let's have heavy rail running fast between radically fewer stations (and feeder buses etc).

[Brucetiki]

Was travelling city-bound on the Gawler Line from Salisbury station this afternoon around 1:30. Train was already pretty full with BBL-goers when I got on and became progressively more full until we reached Mawson Lakes and the masses of BBL-goers on the platform piled in. All available space was filled. The number of carriages on that train... two... The free open gates at Adelade station were also swamped; the regular paid gate line was pretty clear to walk through after squeezing through the BBL queue at the free gate.

The bright side of this is once the line is electrified the minimum number of cars per train set will be three, have open gangways and the aisles will be wide enough for adequate standing room and comply with accessibility guidelines. When the diesel stock were renewed it would've been the perfect time to lop off the third seat in the 2+3 rows (the third seat is basically stuck to the side of the structure that supports the main two seats so cutting it off doesn't cause any structural issues).

Same happened on NYE. Several outbound trains were 3 cars (and empty). These trains would've barely made it Gawler in time for the start of the BBL match, let alone the return trip to Adelaide.

Inbound trains were 2 cars, and people were being left behind at Mawson Lakes (granted, the bogans crowding around the door and not moving down the train weren't helping).

When DPTI advised that the Adelaide Oval express services would not be running yesterday, I opted to drive in instead. Sounds like I made the right choice.

[ChillyPhilly]

The Gawler Line can be made more efficient by culling several stations: Kudla, Nurlutta, Parafield Gardens and Greenfields can all be removed.