News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[AtD]

So superior that since Adelaide built it's O'Bahn nearly 30 years ago, not a single other city in the world has built one, and the only city that had one before Adelaide has or is dismantling theirs.

If I'm wrong here, please feel free to name the other cities in the world that are being serviced by an O-Bahn bus system.

There's 7 guided busway systems in the UK, all of them 10 years old or younger. There's an 8th under construction as we speak. However, I believe they're all along the side of roads, rather than on their own corridor. Adelaide's is the longest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus

[Tom]

Since the State Government owns the idea of the Obahn I hope those UK citys have paid there royaltys

No bus can be efficent as light rail, a steel wheel on a steel wheel has a 3rd of the friction that a ruber tyre has on a road surface. Light Rail can also as clean, its just what you run the powerplant off, we can always change coal.

[rogue]

Another fucking report and still investigating the feasability after 20 years. Just get on with it!!!

$500m to create electric railway

TORY SHEPHERD

April 10, 2007 02:15am

UPGRADING Adelaide's ageing diesel train system to an environmentally friendly electric network would cost almost $500 million, a report obtained by the Opposition has revealed.

Adelaide's trains, some almost 30 years old, still use diesel, while other states have upgraded to electric trains.

The Government is still investigating the feasibility of electrification.

The Halcrow Pacific report, which was given to the Government in 2005, showed a full upgrade – replacing the fleet – could cost $469.6 million. The report showed converting the fleet (rather than replacing it) could cost $235 million.

Opposition transport spokesman Martin Hamilton-Smith said the Government was "navel gazing", while the system was in need of a major refurbishment. "All the windows (of existing trains) have been trashed, the interiors and exteriors need a major reworking," he said.

"The whole system needs upgrading and every other state has gone electric.

"It's environmentally better, it is more reliable, it is less noisy, it is more modern."

Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said the existing railcars were "safe and serviceable" and that the Government had continued to invest in the train network.

"The Government is continuing to investigate the feasibility of electrification, as part of its long-term planning for transport," he said.

"The Rann Government is looking at the transport network comprehensively, instead of the slap-dash method of the previous government."

State Government documents obtained by The Advertiser this year showed the Government was considering a range of options to transform Adelaide's public transport system.

The report recommended converting to an electric system and said the cost would be recovered by savings in energy, maintenance, future vehicle purchase cost and additional fare revenue.

University SA Transport Policy and Planning Professor Derek Scrafton said it was "about time" the train fleet was overhauled.

He said while the system was adequate, without forward planning it would be in bad shape.

[Cruise]

We get black outs now, so with electric trains going theyell get more frequent and whan they do occur the trains will lose power!!!. Yes i know we are getting 2 new power stations but there not enviromently friendly they use gas/petroleum power for christ sake so instead of fumes coming from a bus or train exhaust it will come from the stack at a power station!!!. electric trains in the long run arnt better. So do you all think moving a problem is better than fixing it?. Do you all think the toyota prius is good for the enviroment? Find out how the batteries are made for this vehicle and you will find in a lifetime they are more destructive enviromently than a Hummer.

What i speak is true and as far as electric vehicles/trains go youve all been played for idiots.

[Norman]

Well, we could have the trains partly solar powered, and running off a secured grid.

[JAKJ]

We get black outs now, so with electric trains going theyell get more frequent and whan they do occur the trains will lose power!!!. Yes i know we are getting 2 new power stations but there not enviromently friendly they use gas/petroleum power for christ sake so instead of fumes coming from a bus or train exhaust it will come from the stack at a power station!!!. electric trains in the long run arnt better. So do you all think moving a problem is better than fixing it?. Do you all think the toyota prius is good for the enviroment? Find out how the batteries are made for this vehicle and you will find in a lifetime they are more destructive enviromently than a Hummer.

What i speak is true and as far as electric vehicles/trains go youve all been played for idiots.

Blackout?? What is this blackout you speak of?? I have never had one...

[Bulldozer]

We get black outs now, so with electric trains going theyell get more frequent and whan they do occur the trains will lose power!!!.

Rail lines, being critical infrastructure, are given priority over other things when "load shedding" and would have backup generators if the risk of blackout was still too great.

Yes i know we are getting 2 new power stations but there not enviromently friendly they use gas/petroleum power for christ sake so instead of fumes coming from a bus or train exhaust it will come from the stack at a power station!!!. electric trains in the long run arnt better. So do you all think moving a problem is better than fixing it?.

They're peaking plants so only run when needed and gas is a lot cleaner than coal. And yes, moving the pollution away from where people live is a good thing. A large power plant is also a lot more efficient than a bunch of small engines (so are electric motors) and when a better way of generating power (nuclear!) comes along it is easier to switch over to using it.

Do you all think the toyota prius is good for the enviroment? Find out how the batteries are made for this vehicle and you will find in a lifetime they are more destructive enviromently than a Hummer.

The batteries last the life of the car and are recyclable - especially since they're expensive and therefore valuable. That being said, I think we'd be better off driving small turbo diesel cars running on biodiesel and even better off again by catching the train!

What i speak is true and as far as electric vehicles/trains go youve all been played for idiots.

Nah, it's just a nice troll.

[Cruise]

As far as those batteries go read this its not all just beer and skittles with electric vehicles.
[quote]Current issue: March 7, 2007 Central Connecticut State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editorial & Commentary

March 7, 2007

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,â€

[Cruise]

Yes i know we are getting 2 new power stations but there not enviromently friendly they use gas/petroleum power for christ sake so instead of fumes coming from a bus or train exhaust it will come from the stack at a power station!!!. electric trains in the long run arnt better. So do you all think moving a problem is better than fixing it?.

They're peaking plants so only run when needed and gas is a lot cleaner than coal. And yes, moving the pollution away from where people live is a good thing. A large power plant is also a lot more efficient than a bunch of small engines (so are electric motors) and when a better way of generating power (nuclear!) comes along it is easier to switch over to using it.

Gas still isnt clean enough though and yes its not near peoples homes but there still polluting the earth. Its just that most people wont notice when its NIMBY

[Al]

[quote="Cruise Control"]As far as those batteries go read this its not all just beer and skittles with electric vehicles.
[quote]Current issue: March 7, 2007 Central Connecticut State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editorial & Commentary

March 7, 2007

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,â€

[AG]

I know this isn't strictly related to the suburban commuter rail network, but this is the freight line that runs along the eastern part of the Le Fevre Peninsula parallel to the Outer Harbor Line. This section of line is being duplicated and upgraded to allow for an increase in capacity of freight trains heading to and from the Port at Outer Harbor. Note the connection between this line and the new bridge under construction over the Port River. This is going to make the line between the connection to Glanville redundant, and freight movements on the existing Outer Harbor removed.

From Vicsig:

[shuza]

So you're saying frieght trains will be diverted along the Port River Bridge, rather than through Port Adelaide and Newport Quays?

[rhino]

That's the whole idea. The viaduct at Port Adelaide will still be used by Trans Adelaide's broad gauge commuter trains, but the standard gauge heavy freight trains will head from Dry Creek directly on to the freight line up the eastern side of LeFevre Peninsula.

As for Broad gauge freight (the Stonie, Roseworthy grainys) ... I'm guessing they'll still use the viaduct, inless the line over the new bridge is to be dual gauge?

[AG]

That's the whole idea. The viaduct at Port Adelaide will still be used by Trans Adelaide's broad gauge commuter trains, but the standard gauge heavy freight trains will head from Dry Creek directly on to the freight line up the eastern side of LeFevre Peninsula.

As for Broad gauge freight (the Stonie, Roseworthy grainys) ... I'm guessing they'll still use the viaduct, inless the line over the new bridge is to be dual gauge?

It is supposed to be dual gauge. So grainies from up north will use the new bridge as well.

[rhino]

Yes, I have since found out that the line will be dual gauge as far as the Penrice facility at Osborne, but, in their wisdom, they have decided not to continue the dual gauge as far as the new silo facility at Pelican Point, so only standard gauge grainys can reach it. Go figure