[U/C] Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

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Patrick_27
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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#826 Post by Patrick_27 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:06 am

Mr Smith wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:50 am
With bits of MATS basically built in some form or another, most of the rest should be built in some form or another as well.
A second motorway/freeway running north/north east should be built, as the northern suburbs will be where most of our new population growth will happen and it's too wide of an area. Finishing the PREXY eastward should happen then too. Continuing the South Eastern Freeway up Portrush and linking it with the NSM & second northern motorway. And of course doing the south eastern freeway connection to the NSM as proposed by the transport industry as well.
They should try and include trains within them as well if possible. Still a shame that the train component all be it freight trains didn't go ahead for the Northern Connector. A bit of thinking from government and we could have had a second northern passenger line as well which would have captured a lot of areas that are destined to become housing.
Could even turn the Obahn into a train line, tunnel the rest of it's passage through Hackney road, and continue the city side of the tunnel under Grenfell street to meet up with a tunnel running under King William street,
Agree 100%.
Your pipe dream seems to forget the reasons that MATS was ditched in the first place. The plan was going to divide and decimate suburban Adelaide, and still would if you were to implement too much of it, which your ideas would do just that. Hell, if fact, if any of what you mentioned was to be done today, it would probably be even worse than what they feared in the 60s. That said, you might be able to get away with extending PREXY east without it costing too much and causing too much of an issue.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#827 Post by Mr Smith » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:47 am

Patrick_27 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:06 am
Mr Smith wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:50 am
With bits of MATS basically built in some form or another, most of the rest should be built in some form or another as well.
A second motorway/freeway running north/north east should be built, as the northern suburbs will be where most of our new population growth will happen and it's too wide of an area. Finishing the PREXY eastward should happen then too. Continuing the South Eastern Freeway up Portrush and linking it with the NSM & second northern motorway. And of course doing the south eastern freeway connection to the NSM as proposed by the transport industry as well.
They should try and include trains within them as well if possible. Still a shame that the train component all be it freight trains didn't go ahead for the Northern Connector. A bit of thinking from government and we could have had a second northern passenger line as well which would have captured a lot of areas that are destined to become housing.
Could even turn the Obahn into a train line, tunnel the rest of it's passage through Hackney road, and continue the city side of the tunnel under Grenfell street to meet up with a tunnel running under King William street,
Agree 100%.
Hell, if fact, if any of what you mentioned was to be done today, it would probably be even worse than what they feared in the 60s.
How do you figure that mate? Back in the 60's expressways imbedded in trenches were not done. In your jaundiced world we would still be driving thru Croydon on the South Rd goat track where semi's could only use the centre lane on account of the stobie poles and there was no centre median. Surely even you can see the improvements T2T has provided.

Unfortunately Adelaide is no long the quaint museum you crave it to be. Not every suburb can be serviced by a tram. For the joint to run efficiently goods and services need to be able to move around quickly which they currently cannot do on a ever more gridlocked Portrush Rd.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#828 Post by rev » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:06 am
Mr Smith wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:50 am
With bits of MATS basically built in some form or another, most of the rest should be built in some form or another as well.
A second motorway/freeway running north/north east should be built, as the northern suburbs will be where most of our new population growth will happen and it's too wide of an area. Finishing the PREXY eastward should happen then too. Continuing the South Eastern Freeway up Portrush and linking it with the NSM & second northern motorway. And of course doing the south eastern freeway connection to the NSM as proposed by the transport industry as well.
They should try and include trains within them as well if possible. Still a shame that the train component all be it freight trains didn't go ahead for the Northern Connector. A bit of thinking from government and we could have had a second northern passenger line as well which would have captured a lot of areas that are destined to become housing.
Could even turn the Obahn into a train line, tunnel the rest of it's passage through Hackney road, and continue the city side of the tunnel under Grenfell street to meet up with a tunnel running under King William street,
Agree 100%.
Your pipe dream seems to forget the reasons that MATS was ditched in the first place. The plan was going to divide and decimate suburban Adelaide, and still would if you were to implement too much of it, which your ideas would do just that. Hell, if fact, if any of what you mentioned was to be done today, it would probably be even worse than what they feared in the 60s. That said, you might be able to get away with extending PREXY east without it costing too much and causing too much of an issue.
Except that they are slowly implementing bits of MATS in some form, and will continue to do so. Surely you can see that Patrick.

If you think a motorway through the eastern side of the metro area wont be built, or that a second north/north east motorway wont happen, just wait 25 or so years and youll be able to drive on them.
The major population growth in Adelaide will happen in the north. One motorway for such a huge area that already has a large population wont be able to cope. Nor is a single train line.

And there will be a motorway link between NSM and SE freeway sooner then you think.


If they do tunnels through the remaining NSM sections, there's a chance someone in government might have the foresight to get things going on that underground rail through the City sooner then later.

And whats pie in the sky about converting the obahn to rail that links up in a tunnel with above said already much talked about tunnel? Its a major improvement to PT, and would cope better with population increases. More people would use it then the obahn buses as youd have more stops/stations along the route.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#829 Post by mawsonguy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:43 pm

Below is the photo from the 29 July 2019 article in the advertiser. It appears to be about 2 months old and generated from commercial aerial photography .. so much for the "exclusive". Still a lot of work to do. I don't think they will be opening it ahead of schedule like the T2T.

Image

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#830 Post by SBD » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:01 pm

That depends on what “open” means and what “on schedule” means. The bridge at Waterloo corner is open, as is the bridge over the Port River Expressway and exit bridge to Salisbury Highway. T2T was open to traffic in the trench before the whole project was complete. Darlington already has some traffic in its trench and it is now announced as behind the Northern Connector.

The temporary ramp from Port Wakefield Road to Northern Expressway crosses the southbound NC, so presumably they will need to open northbound from at least Waterloo Coorner before southbound can be connected. Bolivar Road interchange presumably needs a staged opening too because of access to SA Water.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#831 Post by Spotto » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:03 pm

Not just in that aerial photo, but in official media releases and maps too, but where's the logic in calling them the Northern and Southern Interchanges? Yes, they're at the north and south ends of this project, but when it's complete the corridor will be continuous and those names will no longer have any meaning. They'd've been better off calling them Virginia Interchange and Wingfield Interchange for easier wayfinding once this project is connected to the corridor.

I can imagine traffic reports on the radio: "Traffic is delayed at Southern Interchange on the North-South Motorway, which is actually located in the northern half of the motorway at the Port River Expressway in the northern suburbs." :lol:

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#832 Post by SBD » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:14 pm

Spotto wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:03 pm
Not just in that aerial photo, but in official media releases and maps too, but where's the logic in calling them the Northern and Southern Interchanges? Yes, they're at the north and south ends of this project, but when it's complete the corridor will be continuous and those names will no longer have any meaning. They'd've been better off calling them Virginia Interchange and Wingfield Interchange for easier wayfinding once this project is connected to the corridor.

I can imagine traffic reports on the radio: "Traffic is delayed at Southern Interchange on the North-South Motorway, which is actually located in the northern half of the motorway at the Port River Expressway in the northern suburbs." :lol:
I expect they will mostly be known by the intersecting roads. They might also continue the Northern Expressway naming theme of significant military battles involving Australian forces.

I’ve already heard reports of traffic delays for queueing at the Northern end of the North-South Motorway and not sure if that is at the end of T2T or the end of the South Road Superway.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#833 Post by Patrick_27 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:16 pm

What's the deal going to be with the naming for all of this? Is each of the individual stretches of the north-south corridor that are already named going to keep their name? I know that Darlington will simply become an extension of the Southern Expressway, but up north you have the Northern Expressway, the Northern Connector, North-South Motorway, and T2T (has that stretch even been named anything?) I know it's not really important, but begs the question surely...

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#834 Post by alexczarn » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:39 am

SBD wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:14 pm
Spotto wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:03 pm
Not just in that aerial photo, but in official media releases and maps too, but where's the logic in calling them the Northern and Southern Interchanges? Yes, they're at the north and south ends of this project, but when it's complete the corridor will be continuous and those names will no longer have any meaning. They'd've been better off calling them Virginia Interchange and Wingfield Interchange for easier wayfinding once this project is connected to the corridor.

I can imagine traffic reports on the radio: "Traffic is delayed at Southern Interchange on the North-South Motorway, which is actually located in the northern half of the motorway at the Port River Expressway in the northern suburbs." :lol:
I expect they will mostly be known by the intersecting roads. They might also continue the Northern Expressway naming theme of significant military battles involving Australian forces.

I’ve already heard reports of traffic delays for queueing at the Northern end of the North-South Motorway and not sure if that is at the end of T2T or the end of the South Road Superway.
Top end of the Superway due to that 1 lane Salisbury Highway onramp.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#835 Post by rev » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 am

Wouldn't they just be referring to each section as they are being built, regarding things like "northern interchange"...? Surely when the whole corridor is complete, they will have specific names for each significant part.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#836 Post by Nort » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:56 am

It's crazy to imagine how much change is going to be generated by the Northern Connector in the areas adjacent to it, with it being inevitable that within 25 years it will go entirely through newly built suburbs.

Really hope they reserve land for a train line to be built at some point for when that happens.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#837 Post by SBD » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:36 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 am
Wouldn't they just be referring to each section as they are being built, regarding things like "northern interchange"...? Surely when the whole corridor is complete, they will have specific names for each significant part.
The road signs are already up, but covered over, at Waterloo Corner interchange, so the name has been decided. I think it is Northern Expressway, but not certain, it could be North-South Motorway. The Northern Expressway junction names are rarely used, they are referred to by crossing road.

EDIT/UPDATE: https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/roads contains the Northern Connector already, and it is named North South Motorway. Northern Expressway keeps its current name.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#838 Post by aaronjameslange » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:33 am

SBD wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:36 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 am
Wouldn't they just be referring to each section as they are being built, regarding things like "northern interchange"...? Surely when the whole corridor is complete, they will have specific names for each significant part.
The road signs are already up, but covered over, at Waterloo Corner interchange, so the name has been decided. I think it is Northern Expressway, but not certain, it could be North-South Motorway. The Northern Expressway junction names are rarely used, they are referred to by crossing road.

EDIT/UPDATE: https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/roads contains the Northern Connector already, and it is named North South Motorway. Northern Expressway keeps its current name.
Covered signs at waterloo corner say north south motorway M2. I saw some of the cover sticker peeling off a couple months back and i was able to see just enough. After R2P is complete, at least we will have one continuous North south motorway from west thebarton to near virginia, and a continuous M2 from west thebarton to gawler. Still a while off before it connects to the other M2 down south

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#839 Post by rev » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:50 am

SBD wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:36 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 am
Wouldn't they just be referring to each section as they are being built, regarding things like "northern interchange"...? Surely when the whole corridor is complete, they will have specific names for each significant part.
The road signs are already up, but covered over, at Waterloo Corner interchange, so the name has been decided. I think it is Northern Expressway, but not certain, it could be North-South Motorway. The Northern Expressway junction names are rarely used, they are referred to by crossing road.

EDIT/UPDATE: https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/roads contains the Northern Connector already, and it is named North South Motorway. Northern Expressway keeps its current name.
T2T, R2P, Northern Connector..these are just project names, not names of the roads.
The entire route will be known as the North South Motorway. There's literally no point in breaking it up into different named sections. Think of it like South Road.
Perhaps the only thing worth giving a name to, is the potential tunnels, and any significant bridges or underpasses.

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[U/C] Re: Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

#840 Post by Spotto » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:14 pm

aaronjameslange wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:33 am
SBD wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:36 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 am
Wouldn't they just be referring to each section as they are being built, regarding things like "northern interchange"...? Surely when the whole corridor is complete, they will have specific names for each significant part.
The road signs are already up, but covered over, at Waterloo Corner interchange, so the name has been decided. I think it is Northern Expressway, but not certain, it could be North-South Motorway. The Northern Expressway junction names are rarely used, they are referred to by crossing road.

EDIT/UPDATE: https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/roads contains the Northern Connector already, and it is named North South Motorway. Northern Expressway keeps its current name.
Covered signs at waterloo corner say north south motorway M2. I saw some of the cover sticker peeling off a couple months back and i was able to see just enough. After R2P is complete, at least we will have one continuous North south motorway from west thebarton to near virginia, and a continuous M2 from west thebarton to gawler. Still a while off before it connects to the other M2 down south
Personally, I would've signed the Northern Connector as part of the Northern Expressway, effectively a "Stage 2" extension, and kept the NSM name for the straight route adjacent to South Road proper through the denser inner suburbs. Easier for way-finding.

Northern Expressway - Gawler to Wingfield Interchange
North-South Motorway - Wingfield Interchange to Darlington Interchange
Southern Expressway- Darlington Interchange to Old Noarlunga

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