[COM] Southern Expressway Duplication | $445m | 22km

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drsmith
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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#106 Post by drsmith » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:27 am

Aidan wrote: But there won't be signals at Flinders Drive. The objective is to make it a non stop corridor!
As part of this project ?
Aidan wrote:Initially when I saw that I thought it must be 5 lanes misinterpreted - but looking at it again, you're right - it's definitely seven, and I can't explain the barrier. So maybe Shuz's explanation is right.
It may all connect to grade seperated interchanges at Flinders Drive and Sturt Road with the barrier there to define exit lanes and through lanes but how much would grade seperation of Flinders Drive and Sturt Road cost ?

In the absence of evidence otherwise I conclude these are not part of the proposed project but rather possibilities for a later project.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#107 Post by drsmith » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 pm

Aidan wrote:
AtD wrote:There's no reason the new carriageway has to be built only on one side. For example, the Hume Hwy duplication frequently swapped sides depending what's most convenient to build on.
True. But there is an advantage to doing so: it's less disruptive to the existing road. Admittedly the Southern Expressway is closed so much that this is less of a problem than normal, but restricting the times that work can be done is still likely to increase the cost.
The Great Eastern Highway duplication east of Perth (Between Sawyers Valley and The Lakes Roadhouse) is a case where the existing carriageway was of little use in the duplication (it was highly undulating and had sharp curves). Only one small section was retained as part of the final allignment and a temporary road had to be built along another section to serve traffic during construction. Though now completed, Google satellite images still showes the project early in it's construction and the original allignment.

To maintaining a viable road during the construction period the new carriageways were built in inidvidual sections with crossovers from one side to the other to maintain a viable 2-lane road. I drove through the project site many times during construction and was impressed by the scale of the earthworks. This is now much less obvious with the finished road.

IIRC the project took a year longer to complete and there were a number of reasons fo this. Earthworks were harder than expected and the original scope of the project was extended to include the lakes turnoff. Completion would have been delayed further had it not been a very late start to winter seasonal rainfall in the final year of construction.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#108 Post by Tonsley213 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:35 pm

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#109 Post by camaro68 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:01 pm

Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#110 Post by Ben » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:13 pm

camaro68 wrote:Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:
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[COM] Re: Southern Expresswahttp://www.sensational-adely to be doubled

#111 Post by rev » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:39 pm

camaro68 wrote:Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:
I agree that part of South Road should be fixed.
But I don't see why we should do one or the other, one at a time.
The state has a AAA credit rating, has had it for some time now.
Get it done already.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#112 Post by Nort » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:59 pm

camaro68 wrote:Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:
Yes, we get it, you wish they would focus all the attention on the section of road that personally affects you most.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#113 Post by muzzamo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:58 am

+1, He sounds like someone from the adelaidnow brigade.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#114 Post by camaro68 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:06 am

Nort wrote:
camaro68 wrote:Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:
Yes, we get it, you wish they would focus all the attention on the section of road that personally affects you most.

No!! not quite!! I’m suggesting we fix the centre bit as it has 24 traffic lights between Darlington and Regency park as apposed to 0 on the southern express way and 4 traffic lights between Regency road and port express way.

Bang for Buck $1.5 Billion to avoid 5 traffic lights ($375 Million/Traffic light) or $2 to $2.5 Billion (Educated guess) to avoid 24 Traffic lights ($100 Million/Traffic Light). :2cents:

Hmm almost four times as much, albeit this might be a simplistic way at looking at however i feel it would be more advantageous to Adelaide as a whole to fix the centre section first.

The project will take possibly 10 years, but we should start with the worst section first, let's not continue to make the same mistakes we have been for the last 40 years. :wallbash:

Who knows traffic coming from interstate (Vic, NSW), might use this to get to the northern part of Adelaide as apposed to driving down Portrush road (past 8 or so schools) ergo safety issue.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#115 Post by muzzamo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:01 am

It looks like the northern end of the expressway project is going to result in at least 3 sets of traffic lights being removed: South Road/Expressway, South Road/flinders, and South Road/Sturt Road. So 7 sets of traffic lights are being removed by the superway/expressway projects.

I also have the funny feeling the government will announce more road projects a week or so before the election.

The inner city parts of South Road need serious amounts of money spent on them, most likely in the form of tunnels.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#116 Post by Nort » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:18 am

camaro68 wrote:
Nort wrote:
camaro68 wrote:Me thinks it would be better to spent the proposed money for doubling the Southern Expressway and the elevated freeway at Regency park ($1.3 Billion) on improving the portion of south road in between Darlington & Regency Park. :2cents:

Or are we hoping that further tram extensions will fix this??? :wallbash:
Yes, we get it, you wish they would focus all the attention on the section of road that personally affects you most.

No!! not quite!! I’m suggesting we fix the centre bit as it has 24 traffic lights between Darlington and Regency park as apposed to 0 on the southern express way and 4 traffic lights between Regency road and port express way.

Bang for Buck $1.5 Billion to avoid 5 traffic lights ($375 Million/Traffic light) or $2 to $2.5 Billion (Educated guess) to avoid 24 Traffic lights ($100 Million/Traffic Light). :2cents:

Hmm almost four times as much, albeit this might be a simplistic way at looking at however i feel it would be more advantageous to Adelaide as a whole to fix the centre section first.

The project will take possibly 10 years, but we should start with the worst section first, let's not continue to make the same mistakes we have been for the last 40 years. :wallbash:

Who knows traffic coming from interstate (Vic, NSW), might use this to get to the northern part of Adelaide as apposed to driving down Portrush road (past 8 or so schools) ergo safety issue.
Yeah it all needs fixing, however it was pointed out last time why things are being done this way.

The Port Road/South Road intersection was meant to be getting work done, and funds were actually planned out for it. The federal government then stepped in and offered 500 million to construct the raised roadway at Regency because it was seen as valuable for commercial transport in the future.

So lets put you in charge. You have numbers that to fix all of South Road will cost X billion dollars. You then get offered half a billion dollars to upgrade part of it now, limited time offer. Do you turn that money down? Is it worth that amount of money to get your pet section of road upgraded first?

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#117 Post by drsmith » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:24 am

muzzamo wrote:It looks like the northern end of the expressway project is going to result in at least 3 sets of traffic lights being removed: South Road/Expressway, South Road/flinders, and South Road/Sturt Road. So 7 sets of traffic lights are being removed by the superway/expressway projects.
Where is it confirmed that that traffic lights would be removed from South Road/flinders and South Road/Sturt Road as part of the expressway duplication.

Grade seperation of these intersections would be substantial projects in themselves and hence considerable cost. Based on the estimated cost of two grade-seperation projects in Perth it's hard to imagine that $75m for the Darlington Interchange would purchase anything more than what is indicated in the render.

Reid Highway overpass Perth ($72m).
http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Building ... rpass.aspx

Roe Highway/Great Eastern Highway interchange Perth (estimated $80m to $100m as of July 2009).
http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Building ... H-Roe.aspx

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#118 Post by camaro68 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:57 am

"So lets put you in charge. You have numbers that to fix all of South Road will cost X billion dollars. You then get offered half a billion dollars to upgrade part of it now, limited time offer. Do you turn that money down? Is it worth that amount of money to get your pet section of road upgraded first?"

My point is take the money offered but start working on the inner part of south road first, who knows when next we'll get more money??? :wallbash:

It might act as a springboard to justify further funds to fix all of it.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#119 Post by Archer » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:08 pm

camaro68 wrote: My point is take the money offered but start working on the inner part of south road first, who knows when next we'll get more money??? :wallbash:
You're missing the point. The money is being offered for a specific section of road. We can't accept the money and then say oh, but we're gonna do this bit first. It doesn't work like that. The Fedral Government is offering the money to do the superway, that's it, take it or leave it. We can't divert that money to use on a different section of road.

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[COM] Re: Southern Expressway to be doubled

#120 Post by Nort » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:29 pm

camaro68 wrote:"So lets put you in charge. You have numbers that to fix all of South Road will cost X billion dollars. You then get offered half a billion dollars to upgrade part of it now, limited time offer. Do you turn that money down? Is it worth that amount of money to get your pet section of road upgraded first?"

My point is take the money offered but start working on the inner part of south road first, who knows when next we'll get more money??? :wallbash:

It might act as a springboard to justify further funds to fix all of it.
Archer beat me to it.

I just want to add though that your springboard comment can apply to every section of the road. You could just as easily say that once both the ends are vastly improved that will justify the massive funds needed to build all the tunnels that will be needed for the central section.

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