News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
User avatar
Cruise
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2209
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Bay 115, Football Park

Re: Ticketing System

#46 Post by Cruise » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:40 pm

hump de bump
Anyone else start thinking of the new red hot chilli peppers song as well lol

Bender
Sen-Rookie-Sational
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:56 am

Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#47 Post by Bender » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:38 am

Hi there,

after studying at the UoA and living in Adelaide a while, I am now back in Germany for nearly a year. I must say really say, that I loved the time I spend in Australia and I miss Adelaide (I am still interested in what is going on "down under" so that's why I read this forum). The only thing I did not like about Adelaide (and most other cities in Australia) is the public transport.

I should maybe tell you something about public transport in Germany.

Currently I live in Hamburg which is a traffic-wise dream.
Population: 1.800.000
Population density: 2.300 per sqkm
Hamburg has a rapid transit system consisting of 3 underground lines and 6 suburban train lines. All trains operate from 4 a.m. to 1 a.m. on weekdays and around the clock from friday to sunday. The 3 underground lines (Hochbahn/U-Bahn) run from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. every 5 minutes and otherwise in 10 to 20 minutes intervalls (late evening and night services). The six suburban train (S-Bahn) lines run every 10 minutes from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. and like the underground lines every 20 minutes from 9 p.m. on. Because the 6 S-Bahn are combined to two train routes through the city, the usual frequency is 3 to 5 mintes at every station in the CBD and the inner suburbs. Even in the rush hour they are not overcrowded and you are able to travel 8km in 11minutes (compared to nearly 25 minutes from Ashford hospital via ANZAC highway to King William Road which is nearly the same distance).

Buses are serving every bus stop at a 10 min interval throughout the day, a 20 min interval in the evening after 8 p.m. and an hourly interval from 1 a.m. to 6 a.m. (night service only during weekdays where no trains run from 1 a.m. to 4 a.m.)

While you can buy single trip tickets, most of the people buy tickets valid for a week or a month. So there are no ticket validators found on any station or in any buses. So there is no obstacle when going to the platform and the time a bus waits at a bus stop is also minimal since the passengers only need to embark the bus and do not need to show/validate their ticket.
A single trip ticket costs 2 A$ to 5,2 A$ depending on the distance you want to travel. A monthly ticket costs 88 A$ (if you buy 4 Adelaide Metro multitrip tickets a month, it costs 107 $A). If you live very far away from the CBD, you will need a more expensive ticket which costs 138 A$ a month. But there are also concession cards for students and seniors starting at 50 A$ a month.
Compared to the Adelaide Metro fares are still pretty cheap. You can travel as often as you want and don't need a cab if you want to travel during night times. Especially you won't need a timetable for the trains because they run in such short interval.

Let's look at another German city that is population-density-wise more comparable to Adelaide:
My home town Münster
Population: 280.000 (Münster city), aprrox 1.300.000 (Münster and metropolitan area)
Population density: 898 per sqkm (Münster city), approx. 400 per sqkm (Münster and cities in the metropolitain area)
Münster and the smaller cities around it are pretty much like Adelaide. You can compare Münster itself to Adelaide CBD plus the suburbs in a 8km radius around the city.
In Münster, the only mode of public transport are buses although the outer suburbs have train stations served by regional trains running to Münster central station. 20 city bus lines covering an area of approx. 400 sqkm run from 4 a.m. to 9 p.m. every 10 to 20 minutes, after that every 30 minutes and on weekends there is a night service running every 60 minutes from 1 a.m. to 7 a.m.
As in Hamburg, most people have monthly ticket which cost approx 60 A$ in Münster.
Surrounding cities a connected via regional buses and trains which usually run in a 20 minute interval.

If you are used to such kind of public transport, you feel a little disappointed when you start using the Adelaide Metro system:
-After 8p.m. the bus lines run only in very long intervals
-The trains are painfully slow
-There are too many bus lines
-Buses have very small doors that prevent a fast passenger exchange
-Bus stop often lack a timetable and the information which bus lines are stopping there (in Europe, every stop is a timed stop)
-There are no announcements in the bus (the buses in Europe use a system like on the new Glenelg trams)
-There are no weekly/monthly tickets
-There is no real night service

What would be very cool and would be quite a relief from the traffic problem: Adelaide should get a subway at least for the CBD running from The Parade via Rundle St, Rundle Mall/Grenfell St, Victoria Sq to South Tce and another line from West Tce, Railway Station, Hindley St, Victoria Sq to the South East CBD.
When the train routes are electified, the subway can connect to rest of the track system (e.g. South Tce->Wayville) building a mixture of "London-style underground transport" and "Adelaide style" train system.

Would be nice to heard the opinion of "real" Adelaiders :-)

Cheers!

User avatar
Queen Anne
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#48 Post by Queen Anne » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:13 am

Hi Bender,

I have a friend whose brother lives part-time in Germany and he loves it to bits and pieces.

I won't pretend I know anything much about public transport that's worth sharing, just wanted to say 'hi' and welcome, as the Adelaide crew might not be along for a while yet.

By the way, I think you qualify as a 'real Adelaider' - the more the merrier :)
Caroline

User avatar
Tyler_Durden
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:11 pm

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#49 Post by Tyler_Durden » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:55 am

Very interesting. I knew Adelaide's public transportation networks are very poor compared to Europe but what you've said sounds fantastic.

The hours of operation for the trains is awesome and run later than anywhere I've experienced anywhere around the world, even Tokyo.

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#50 Post by monotonehell » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:01 am

Hey Bender. I agree with pretty much all you say, although your proposed underground route seems a little strange.

However, I'd like you to explain more what you mean by, "There are too many bus lines."

Tschüs!
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

User avatar
AG
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:44 am
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#51 Post by AG » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:16 am

I think what Bender is trying to get across is that our public transportation system is overdependent on the use of buses. That is particularly true on the long bus routes that run north to south across the city, those including the 22x series of buses serving Main North Road, the 21x and the 72x series heading south. What there needs to be on these longer routes is a shift from the so called express bus routes which get caught in inner city traffic to a combination of slow and fast train services served by feeder bus routes, and the excess bus capacity shifted to areas where they are needed.

I also agree with the fact that some buses have entrances that are too small. The buses really need to be allocated more efficiently, as there are some long buses going to quiet routes such as the 291 while there are tiny buses on some of the other busier routes such as the 143, 145 and 146.

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5934
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 838 times
Been thanked: 1616 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#52 Post by Norman » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:51 am

Yes, it would be nice to have great Public Transport in Adelaide. Unfortunately, as Will correctly pointed out, we do not have the massive European budgets they do over there. In my hometown, they spent almost $A10b over 20 years on converting their extensive tram system into an effective "metro"/"Stadtbahn" system. Now they are spending another $A8b on Overhauling their dead-end regional main station to a through-running one. This will cut regional travel time by several minutes, something they are always pursuing. This is something that would never happen here (Unless Sydney actually do pursue their "not so metro-like metro train). More on that massive project here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21

Now, here we may have a poorer public transport system. But with the increased number of bus routes we have, we are supposed to go pretty much anywhere. However, as many people have already siad, the car rules in Australia. Even in Sydney, where they have a great train system (eapart from the rolling stock), 80% or more still prefer to drive in their cars. It's just built into our culture, and maybe it is just too late change anything.

One thing Australia is in need of is proper infrastructure. Across the entire country, there is poor maintainance of proper infrastructure and a lack of planning for future infrastructure. This may be because Australia is a faster growing country than Germany is, but they still manage to put in place efficient infrastructure.

As Lisa once said on The Simpsons... Everyone wants to be like the Germans. Not saying that I don't love Adelaide, I do prefer it here, but it is just the culture and lack of planning that is preventing us to have great infrastructure, including a great public transport system.

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#53 Post by monotonehell » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:17 pm

AG wrote:I think what Bender is trying to get across is that our public transportation system is overdependent on the use of buses. That is particularly true on the long bus routes that run north to south across the city, those including the 22x series of buses serving Main North Road, the 21x and the 72x series heading south. What there needs to be on these longer routes is a shift from the so called express bus routes which get caught in inner city traffic to a combination of slow and fast train services served by feeder bus routes, and the excess bus capacity shifted to areas where they are needed.
While that's true I think you're putting words into Bender's mouth, there's no way I can get that intent from what he said. :lol:
Norman wrote:Now, here we may have a poorer public transport system. But with the increased number of bus routes we have, we are supposed to go pretty much anywhere. However, as many people have already siad, the car rules in Australia. Even in Sydney, where they have a great train system (eapart from the rolling stock), 80% or more still prefer to drive in their cars. It's just built into our culture, and maybe it is just too late change anything.
It's never too late Norman, I will cure us of our car dependency. Just make me supreme ruler for life and see what happens. ;)
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

User avatar
jk1237
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:22 pm
Location: Adelaide
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#54 Post by jk1237 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:26 pm

AG wrote: I also agree with the fact that some buses have entrances that are too small. The buses really need to be allocated more efficiently, as there are some long buses going to quiet routes such as the 291 while there are tiny buses on some of the other busier routes such as the 143, 145 and 146.
I must admit my bus stop in town is also serviced by the now little bus route 291 to Marden, and for some reason, half of the buses seem to be artics (extended), with about 10 people on them, in peak hour. My bus rolls up with 15 people trying to get into a smaller, already full bus. I spose the 291 turns into 296/297 to the south, but im not sure if thats a busy route or not.

If only we had some German influence, attitudes and ideas when it come to public transport in Aust. It would be sehr gut.

User avatar
AtD
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:00 pm
Location: Sydney
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#55 Post by AtD » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:44 pm

jk1237 wrote:If only we had some German influence, attitudes and ideas when it come to public transport in Aust. It would be sehr gut.
That comment is just begging for the O-Bahn dance.

User avatar
AG
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:44 am
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#56 Post by AG » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:37 pm

jk1237 wrote:
AG wrote: I also agree with the fact that some buses have entrances that are too small. The buses really need to be allocated more efficiently, as there are some long buses going to quiet routes such as the 291 while there are tiny buses on some of the other busier routes such as the 143, 145 and 146.
I must admit my bus stop in town is also serviced by the now little bus route 291 to Marden, and for some reason, half of the buses seem to be artics (extended), with about 10 people on them, in peak hour. My bus rolls up with 15 people trying to get into a smaller, already full bus. I spose the 291 turns into 296/297 to the south, but im not sure if thats a busy route or not.

If only we had some German influence, attitudes and ideas when it come to public transport in Aust. It would be sehr gut.
The cross town service between the 291, 296 and 297 is a little odd. Both the 296 and 297 are significantly busier than the 291, serving the Winston Avenue Go Zone in the south. Often when I get on the 291, there's almost always more people alighting than there are boarding. During peak hour, all 296s and 297s become 291s with 291s alternating between forming 296 and 297 services, but outside peak hour only 297s run crosstown with 291. There's empty buses running every 15 minutes on the 291 to Marden during morning peak hour and into the city during afternoon peak hour! The crosstown routes really need to be rearranged better.

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5934
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 838 times
Been thanked: 1616 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#57 Post by Norman » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:44 pm

I wouldn't say the 296/297 routes are busy, you should check out the M44... even with a Go Zone and express to Marion Road Stop 11A it's pretty much full all the time.

User avatar
Cruise
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2209
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Bay 115, Football Park

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#58 Post by Cruise » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Bender wrote:Population density: 2.300 per sqkm
and that explains the public transport difference

what is Adelaide's denisty? i would hazard a guess at least a quarter of that.

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5934
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 838 times
Been thanked: 1616 times

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#59 Post by Norman » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:19 pm

Adelaide's density is 615/km² (1592.8/sq mi)

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Public transport in Adelaide vs. public transport in Europe

#60 Post by monotonehell » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:24 pm

Norman wrote:Adelaide's density is 615/km² (1592.8/sq mi)
Speaking of this, does anyone have a population density map for the Greater Metro Area? I've only been able to find one for the Square mile and North Adelaide. Like this:
Image
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Joelmark and 7 guests