News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

[rhino]

I can dream, can't I?

That's a terrible dream for someone like me, who lives in an electorate full of idiots!

[monotonehell]

Rubberman, I doubt many people voted for the Coalition based on their preference for FTTN. People voted for the Coalition based on the zeitgeist.

You can't adhere any single issue to a so called mandate. That's why a political mandate is a fiction and an election is a different animal to a referendum.

Besides, Abbott has proven to be poll driven in the past. He's changed his mind on many topics just because he thought it would get him elected. (for example, he was promoting a Carbon Market which was exactly the same model as Labor's, until it was Labor's idea.) If we give him another poll that says lots of voters want FTTP, then he might listen.

[rhino]

Yes Mono, to claim that he has a mandate he needed to have a convincing win in the Senate. Instead, what he got was a country full of voters saying "We don't really trust you...but the other mob don't know if they're Arthur or Martha"

[[Shuz]]

Shuz, I doubt many people voted for the Coalition based on their preference for FTTN. People voted for the Coalition based on the zeitgeist.

You can't adhere any single issue to a so called mandate. That's why a political mandate is a fiction and an election is a different animal to a referendum.

Besides, Abbott has proven to be poll driven in the past. He's changed his mind on many topics just because he thought it would get him elected. (for example, he was promoting a Carbon Market which was exactly the same model as Labor's, until it was Labor's idea.) If we give him another poll that says lots of voters want FTTP, then he might listen.

I think you meant to address Rubberman, not me.

[monotonehell]

I think you meant to address Rubberman, not me.

Yes Susan, you're quite correct... nurse! NURSE!

[rubberman]

You may or may not be right on that Monotone.

However, given that the Coalition was crystal clear on what it was giving us, I find it hard to accept that people should expect anything different in terms of NBN policy. It is not as if any of this was hidden on page fifty of the Coalition policy fine print.

Next, given the grief that Ms Gillard got over broken promises, the Coalition would have to be pretty stupid to break this one, given how clear it is, and, if you read various forums, how many of their core supporters actually believe in FTTN and that all FTTP is for is for downloading movies. It is their clear policy, it is supported by many of their party faithful, if they change, they expose themselves to breaking promises accusations, and it is cheaper up front. They were not swayed before by any of the technical arguments - they did not give themselves any last minute wriggle room to change their minds.

What on earth makes anyone think that they would change their minds at this stage?

I suspect what will happen is that they will put in cabinets with great gusto, and only stop when either the government changes, or the complete arsehattedness of the FTTN really starts to bite. (I should imagine that point will come when people start noticing property values near boxes or connected to fibre direct goes up relative to the rest, or when businesses try to upgrade to higher speeds and find that it is not practical to do so in most cases). However, that is a long way off.

[monotonehell]

I suspect what will happen is that they will put in cabinets with great gusto, and only stop when either the government changes, or the complete arsehattedness of the FTTN really starts to bite. (I should imagine that point will come when people start noticing property values near boxes or connected to fibre direct goes up relative to the rest, or when businesses try to upgrade to higher speeds and find that it is not practical to do so in most cases). However, that is a long way off.

I doubt that they will even get to the stage of installing the node cabinets when they realise that the costs of the nodes outweigh their dodgy estimates. And I doubt that they will even get THAT far when they realise that they haven't costed in (re)negotiations with Telstra (et al) for the use and maintenance of the copper network(s).

I'm expecting that the whole thing will be "investigated". A witch hunt will be released on who ever is still left in charge of NBNco. And the entire project will be abandoned as "not cost effective."

Either way it does no harm to sign this petition.

[Aidan]

You may or may not be right on that Monotone.

However, given that the Coalition was crystal clear on what it was giving us, I find it hard to accept that people should expect anything different in terms of NBN policy. It is not as if any of this was hidden on page fifty of the Coalition policy fine print.

Far from being crystal clear on what the Coalition was giving us, they were actually quite vague. Although they did select the (thoroughly misguided) option of FTTN, they didn't say they'd implement it everywhere - instead they said they'd have a mix of FTTP, FTTN and wireless, but they didn't specify the proportion of each. So there's still plenty of wiggle room.

[ReallyBad]

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/t ... r-ftth-nbn

Change.org petition to Liberals to keep Labours policy

[monotonehell]

Well. There they go again pretending that there's such thing as a single issue mandate from an election.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/m ... ss/4954858

Malcolm Turnbull rejects online petition to keep Labor's NBN plan, saying democracy has spoken
The Coalition has hit back at an online petition to scrap its National Broadband Network plan, saying the election victory gives it a mandate to implement its policy. The petition, launched earlier this week by Queensland university student Nick Paine, has gathered more than 200,000 signatures. Mr Paine, 20, said he wanted to protest the Coalition's plans to switch the NBN to a $29.5 billion fibre-to-the-node model. He wants the new government to continue rolling out the $44.1 billion fibre-to-the-premises network begun under Labor. The Coalition Government's communications spokesman, Malcolm Turnbull, posted a statement on his website saying the party's election win gave it a mandate to go ahead with its NBN plan.
"The promoters of this petition apparently believe that we should ignore the lengthy public debate on the NBN that preceded the election and also ignore the election result," he said.

[rubberman]

Well. There they go again pretending that there's such thing as a single issue mandate from an election.

Well, even though I agree with you on the theory. In practical terms, as long as they can spin their way through the issue (and Rupert Merde-och will give them a free pass on that) and enough of their own supporters agree (and that is clear through debate on this pre-election that they have a solid core of such support), then it is just tough for the rest of us. I would also add, that this attitude from them was perfectly predictable from the outset.

Having said that, I hope that your prediction of them actually abandoning doing anything is correct, since it will give us the opportunity to do it properly later on, rather than have to spend extra tens of billions fixing up a Turnbull mess...and then the ALP getting blamed again for overspending when they do address infrastructure deficits.

[Ho Really]

For your enjoyment...

Abbott's cunning plan to dial up the 80s

Cheers

[monotonehell]

Turnbull claims the debate has already been had. Sure it started ages ago, but we haven't actually had an outcome. Still a load of ignorant people making bullshit claims. A lot of unanswered big questions still hanging over the Lib's scheme. Biggest one of all is about the maintenance of the decrepit copper network.

Be interesting to see at what point that Turnbull and co will start to pay attention to this petition. It currently stands at close to a quarter million.

Primary votes 2013
Coalition 5,230,150
Labor 3,861,610
difference 1,368,540

[Vee]

Just Wow!
The Real Deal on the Coalition NBN: same price, worse outcomes.
By Stevej on NBN blog

This comprehensive blog post suggests the 'Turnbull node plan is a tissue of lies'.
Well worth a read.
http://stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com.au/20 ... -same.html

PS the online petition aimed at the Coalition to reconsider a FTTN network in favour of a superior fibre to the home network now has attracted over 236,000 signatures and media attention.
http://iwantthenbn.com/

[monotonehell]

Just Wow!
The Real Deal on the Coalition NBN: same price, worse outcomes.

Yes Vee. The real failure here is that this message has not managed to get through to the voting public before the election. Most informed people know this already and have been trying to get people to understand for months.

http://stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com.au/20 ... -same.html

The Turnbull Node Plan is a tissue of lies. Here's how:

The real cost to taxpayers of the current plan is only $12.5 billion, yet the Coalition has never released their estimate of this cost, or even if their NBN Public-Private Partnership will payback the Equity. Over 20 years to 2033, this is $40 billion in interest and $30 billion in loans, putting the taxpayer at risk of a $70 billion loss from the Fibre to the Node Plan.

The Coalition NBN Budget is unbelievable:
* If their claim to only change one thing, 75% of fixed-lines are Copper/VDSL2, then that's only $12 billion of the Budget. Yet Turnbull claims savings of $17 billion after spending $8 billion on building the FTTN. It's a complete fantasy.
* On top of this, the Coalition plans to throw-away the FTTN, destroying half of its investment. That deliberate and planned waste of $4 billion is never included.
* At the best, a Copper FTTN costs the same as the current full fibre, and will only be complete a year earlier. This is not the deal of a lifetime, but the con of a lifetime.

...

Since the April launch of the Coalition NBN policy, Turnbull has actively stifled debate, introduced distractions and misdirections and refused to answer basic questions about the finances, profits and charging of his Node Plan.

At a minimum, the taxpayer needs to know the planned pay-back period and Rate of Return of the Coalition model used in their Policy.

It's $70 billion of real taxpayer money the Coalition is risking, we have a right to know the figures.