[U/C] North-South Motorway

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SBD
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4231 Post by SBD » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:29 pm

rev wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:01 pm
how good is he wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:29 pm
Is it just me but coming into this project from either direction and you really have to have your wits about you to get into the correct lane to get where you want to go. It reminds me a bit like a video game that you have to make a quick decision on multiple divergent lanes to choose. I guess with enough practice it will become easier.
Welcome Adelaide to driving on a freeway.
Canada's Ontario Highway 401 doesn't have intersections like South Road and frequent interchanges like the NS Motorway through the Toronto area. It has four lanes each way freeway with frequent exits on the outside (equivalent to the surface South Road, but bigger and like our new NSM). In the middle is the 401 Express with another four lanes each way but only a few interchanges and a few more transfer points to the 401 freeway. As a tourist who is already dealing with driving on the wrong side of the car, concentration is definitely required.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4232 Post by Spotto » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:20 am

how good is he wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:37 am
Does anyone know what happened to the proposal to take people up to Flinders Uni [from the end of Flinders link]? I know it was a bit far fetched but with the autonomous cars at Tonsley etc I thought it might have happened.
I’m guessing the autonomous minibuses will eventually be expanded to Flinders main campus. For the time being they’ll probably just adjust the campus Loop Bus to run via the station. There’s also the “Overflow Shuttle” of two minibuses that run between Registry Road and the Oval Carpark next to the station precinct.

At the moment the Loop Bus runs FMC, Registry Road, clockwise around campus, Sturt Campus, to FMC via Sturt/MSR, repeat. I can see it running from Sturt Campus to train station via Service Road.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4233 Post by Eurostar » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:32 am

Spotto wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:20 am
how good is he wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:37 am
Does anyone know what happened to the proposal to take people up to Flinders Uni [from the end of Flinders link]? I know it was a bit far fetched but with the autonomous cars at Tonsley etc I thought it might have happened.
I’m guessing the autonomous minibuses will eventually be expanded to Flinders main campus. For the time being they’ll probably just adjust the campus Loop Bus to run via the station. There’s also the “Overflow Shuttle” of two minibuses that run between Registry Road and the Oval Carpark next to the station precinct.

At the moment the Loop Bus runs FMC, Registry Road, clockwise around campus, Sturt Campus, to FMC via Sturt/MSR, repeat. I can see it running from Sturt Campus to train station via Service Road.
There is a pedestrian underpass that goes under University Drive which allows pedestrians to go from the hospital area to the university area and vice versa

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4234 Post by kymbosa » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:07 pm

As I have said before, the moment the Libs started talking about tunnels etc was just a delay tactic not to build anything.

Another 10yrs is a horrible thought, but gives a clear understanding why someone has allowed a brand new petrol station built on the eastern side of south roads at Eddy Town.

Government knows nothing is going to be done during their term of government.
817BD886-C812-4545-8E39-043449E40FE2.jpeg

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4235 Post by Mr Smith » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:57 pm

kymbosa wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:07 pm
As I have said before, the moment the Libs started talking about tunnels etc was just a delay tactic not to build anything.

Another 10yrs is a horrible thought, but gives a clear understanding why someone has allowed a brand new petrol station built on the eastern side of south roads at Eddy Town.

Government knows nothing is going to be done during their term of government.

817BD886-C812-4545-8E39-043449E40FE2.jpeg
Yes absolutely. It's fantasy land. A gold plated fantasy.
The simple solution is Tolls.
Just do it.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4236 Post by Mr Smith » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:57 pm

kymbosa wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:07 pm
As I have said before, the moment the Libs started talking about tunnels etc was just a delay tactic not to build anything.

Another 10yrs is a horrible thought, but gives a clear understanding why someone has allowed a brand new petrol station built on the eastern side of south roads at Eddy Town.

Government knows nothing is going to be done during their term of government.

817BD886-C812-4545-8E39-043449E40FE2.jpeg
Yes absolutely. It's fantasy land. A gold plated fantasy.
South road between Brickworks and Edwardstown is basically a car park now. Imagine another ten years of this FFS.
The simple solution is Tolls.
Just do it.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4237 Post by aceman » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:51 pm

I knew it!!! they have no plan!!! who would have thought!!! in all seriousness it shouldn't really come as a surprise.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4238 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:43 am

aceman wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:51 pm
I knew it!!! they have no plan!!! who would have thought!!! in all seriousness it shouldn't really come as a surprise.
"they" in this case is Liberal, Labor and DPTI, not just any one of those three. Labor got the public all excited with the statement that it would be finished in ten years, but did not follow through with the required actions prior to losing office. DPTI might have a plan, but if it does, it has failed to enthuse Government about it. Liberal had a brain fart about bored tunnels, with no plan of how to dig them either.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4239 Post by Norman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:02 am

The first person who mentioned a 10 year timeline was Tony Abbott when he announced the Darlington project.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4240 Post by kymbosa » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:15 am

SBD wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:43 am
aceman wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:51 pm
I knew it!!! they have no plan!!! who would have thought!!! in all seriousness it shouldn't really come as a surprise.
"Labor got the public all excited with the statement that it would be finished in ten years, but did not follow through with the required actions prior to losing office.
That’s not correct. It was Tony Abbott that said this about the road network. He said, “for the state to get the money they need to complete this by 2023”

The problem with that statement was he lost his role as PM and than what was a good relationship between state and feds became a bad one.

Abbott was quoted that he enjoyed working with Jay as they both agreed that South Road just needed to be completed.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4241 Post by muzzamo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:40 am

Here is the AdelaideNow article - I don't think its as bad as first thought. $5 Billion worth of works that haven't even been announced yet would probably have taken close enough to a decade to complete anyway, and the truth is by breaking it up into smaller pieces it can be further de-risked.

$5 BIllion is around $4000 per person in Adelaide, and when you consider that a majority pay no net tax it is probably closer to $10,000 per taxpayer. Not small change!

Finally fixing South Rd to deliver a non-stop freeway is set to take up to a decade, as the State Government seeks to spread out the huge cost of a multibillion-dollar build.

Treasurer Rob Lucas on Monday revealed his Mid Year Budget Review, which confirms state debt is already headed toward $22.2 billion by 2023 amid a big infrastructure spend.

That would be the highest on record, up from $13.1 billion today, and comes before the full cost and designs of the South Rd fix and new Women’s and Children’s Hospital are known.

Mr Lucas stressed that the Government’s increased debt was in line with that of other states, and comes at a time of low interest rates and amid calls from the Reserve Bank for pump-priming.

Asked how the Government would afford the additional debt of a hospital set to cost more than $1 billion and a South Rd fix anticipated to be priced at over $5 billion, Mr Lucas said the freeway plan would likely stretch over the decade to keep payments manageable.

“We are looking at ensuring that the north-south corridor project is extended over a period of up to 10 years, so that we can afford it over a long period of time,” Mr Lucas said.

“It is such a big project that we will need to do it in sections.

“It will have to extend over an eight- to 10-year period. It may well be not until 2030 that it is ultimately completed.”

Upgrades have already been announced or completed for much of what is supposed to be a traffic light-free ride from Gawler and Old Noarlunga.

The last remaining portion is to link the finished Torrens to Torrens with the Darlington Upgrade that is currently underway, a troublesome 10.5km stretch that runs through built-up suburbs and commercial districts.

In 2013, former prime minister Tony Abbott said he wanted the whole job done in a decade.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll has been expected to announced before year’s end whether the Government will go with an above-surface or tunnel option.

It is also considering whether one long tunnel would be preferred, or two that are broken up by a return to the surface.

The Budget update also featured projected modest surpluses in all four years, as Mr Lucas anticipates staying $91 million in the black at the end of the current financial year.

He expects to post a $68 million surplus in 2021, $176 million in 2022 and $104 million in 2023.

Mr Lucas will retire at the 2022 election, but intends to deliver two more Budgets.

The Budget update also featured sluggish projections for jobs and economic growth.

Both GST and stamp duty returns from property sales have been significantly revised down.

Opposition treasury spokesman Stephen Mullighan said the Government should use the spare capacity from a larger-than-expected surplus this year to reverse fee increases.

Mr Lucas earlier this year announced he would jack up fees including speeding fines, mining fees and liquor licences to cover a half-a-billion-dollar GST cash collapse.

“The Marshall Liberal Government simply cannot justify these record hikes in fees, charges and taxes,” Mr Mullighan said.

“Sadly, it doesn’t appear they will be reversed.

“The State Budget may have been back in June, but the record hikes are still rolling out.

“The Marshall Liberal Government’s budget has hurt our economy, with unemployment up and economic growth and business confidence down.”

Mr Lucas also revealed $7.8 million to delay the planned closure of Service SA offices, which he has blamed on a clause in a privatisation contract left by the former Labor government.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4242 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:49 am

Mr Smith wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:57 pm
kymbosa wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:07 pm
As I have said before, the moment the Libs started talking about tunnels etc was just a delay tactic not to build anything.

Another 10yrs is a horrible thought, but gives a clear understanding why someone has allowed a brand new petrol station built on the eastern side of south roads at Eddy Town.

Government knows nothing is going to be done during their term of government.

817BD886-C812-4545-8E39-043449E40FE2.jpeg
Yes absolutely. It's fantasy land. A gold plated fantasy.
South road between Brickworks and Edwardstown is basically a car park now. Imagine another ten years of this FFS.
The simple solution is Tolls.
Just do it.
It's far from a simple solution. Which sections are you going to toll? Due to the nature of South Road there needs to be street level roads as well. A toll would push some traffic to divert onto those street level roads. Keep them small to discourage that? Then you could make traffic in the area much worse for local residents and businesses.

A toll would probably work if it wasn't too large and covered a long tunnel. Problem is that the long tunnel is probably the most expensive option so any benefit from the toll may well be wiped out.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4243 Post by zippySA » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am

Surely a freight toll needs to be considered? Freight movement is the biggest economic beneficiary for this non-stop corridor - plus they cannot sneak past the toll onto secondary routes due to size (maybe the smaller type trucks can before anyone points this out - but the toll scales can address this to discourage). From memory - the Freight Council is not opposed to some form of cost in return for the efficiency this will provide.
Really wish they would publish some details and reports on how they have assessed the options including funding.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4244 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 am

zippySA wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am
Surely a freight toll needs to be considered? Freight movement is the biggest economic beneficiary for this non-stop corridor - plus they cannot sneak past the toll onto secondary routes due to size (maybe the smaller type trucks can before anyone points this out - but the toll scales can address this to discourage). From memory - the Freight Council is not opposed to some form of cost in return for the efficiency this will provide.
Really wish they would publish some details and reports on how they have assessed the options including funding.
That's a good point, but I wonder how politically viable a freight only toll is.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4245 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:35 am

Nort wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 am
zippySA wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am
Surely a freight toll needs to be considered? Freight movement is the biggest economic beneficiary for this non-stop corridor - plus they cannot sneak past the toll onto secondary routes due to size (maybe the smaller type trucks can before anyone points this out - but the toll scales can address this to discourage). From memory - the Freight Council is not opposed to some form of cost in return for the efficiency this will provide.
Really wish they would publish some details and reports on how they have assessed the options including funding.
That's a good point, but I wonder how politically viable a freight only toll is.
What model are you proposing for tolls?
  • Government imposes a toll on South road now, and puts the money in the bank in a special fund called North South Motorway? That just gives an excuse not to commit any other money to the project.
  • Private sector bids are invited to build, own, operate? I wonder how high a charge they would need to put on it to cover their costs, allowing for leakage to routes such as Ayliffes Road, Marion Road and Portrush Road.
  • Government builds the new road and charges to use it? Presumably the toll in that case is less than what a private operator would charge, so it has the disadvantages of traffic leakage, and a long period to cover its cost, amid calls to do the same thing for Portrush, Cross, Grand Junction Roads too.
.

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