[U/C] North-South Motorway

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Spotto
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4261 Post by Spotto » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:30 pm

phenom wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 pm
I think we need some honesty and realism here. I get the vested interests as per this Advertiser article are out in force but let's get real. Tunnels or flyovers still require land acquisition (entries and exits, ventilation shafts, emergency accesses and for raised roads, supports - see the Superway). There's just no way many people anywhere near these won't complain, and especially for the raised roads which will be visible for kilometres around. I'm not saying these should strongly influence the final decision, but politics being what it is, it's always going to be a factor. There's no way to do this which won't inconvenience and annoy quite a few people and that's often the price of 'progress'. Having spent some time working in govt departments, I can only imagine all the weighing up going on of political pressure, cost issues, engineering issues and just plain bureaucratic inefficiency - so I hope we just settle on an approach and stick with it.
I’m sure no one will want a raised motorway anywhere along the final section. Unlike the industrial and commercial surroundings of the Superway, the central section is almost all residential or businesses. Locals and pollies will in all likelihood want less visually intrusive designs, it will probably be a combination of short tunnels, ground motorway and lowered motorway.

If the government had started investigating and planning back after they won the election last year we might’ve have some kind of semi-complete plans by now or at the very least a rough outline. Instead it’s all in the too-hard basket. :wallbash: :wallbash:

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4262 Post by claybro » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:20 am

muzzamo wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:27 pm
From AdelaideNow:
An elevated roadway should be constructed over South Rd to avoid tunnels and the decade it will take to build them, the Civil Construction Federation says.

As the State Government prepares to release its preferred option to finish the final stages of the North-South Corridor, the federation’s SA boss Phil Sutherland said it should turn its attention to a flyover strategy as used on northern parts of the project.

On Thursday, the first sod was turned for the Regency Rd to Pym St section of the project.

Momentum is building for tunnels to be used for the final two stages, stretching a combined 10.5km, which would complete the state’s most expensive road infrastructure project.

This week, The Advertiser revealed the bid to deliver a non-stop freeway was set to take up to a decade, as the State Government sought to spread out the huge cost of a multibillion-dollar build.

The project is expected to cost more than $6 billion but would cost more if tunnels are used.

A petition has been tabled in State Parliament, signed by more than 700 people, mainly from Adelaide’s western suburbs, calling for a combination of two tunnels, or a single tunnel to be used to complete the project.

The push has been driven by a desire to save homes, businesses and a number of heritage-listed properties, including the Thebarton Theatre, from a wrecking ball.

Mr Sutherland told The Advertiser there was a way to alleviate those concerns, and save time and money, by using an elevated roadway sitting above the final uncompleted section of the project should be considered.

“This approach would significantly reduce the cost of other design options under consideration, including tunnels, avoid the need for contentious property acquisitions, and deliver certainty to businesses along the route frantic about their future livelihoods,” Mr Sutherland said.

“Elevating the final link of the freeway would easily connect the freeway’s current finish point at the River Torrens and run south to the soon to be completed Darlington section.

“This would also allow the existing street level South Rd carriageway to be used as a service road to existing business and suburbs.”

Premier Steven Marshall and Infrastructure Minister Stephan Knoll on Thursday turned the first sod on Regency Rd to Pym St (R2P) section one of the North-South Corridor.

Mr Knoll said the North-South Corridor remained the Government’s No. 1 infrastructure priority

“The R2P project is the next piece of this 78km puzzle,” Mr Knoll said.

“Once this project is complete in 2022, motorists will not have to stop at a single traffic light between the River Torrens and Gawler as they head north into our beautiful regions.”
Well Phil Sutherland is an idiot. What he is talking about is replicating the Superway through Thebarton Mile End and Richmond. Has he travelled under the Superway and noted how wide South Road was at that section even before the Superway was constructed? It is not even comparable with the middle section of South Road, and who the hell, living one block or so from this elevated road is going to be happy with such a visual blight, not to mention trucks roaring along 70m in the air near their homes. That little 700 signature petition, would turn into mass demonstrations and 70 thousand signatures overnight with this proposal.,

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4263 Post by bits » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:08 am

The problem I have with a huge bridge or tunnel is they just keep costing money forever. They are not permanent structures.

Constant checks for cracking and movement.

What is the expected life of the superway? I imagine it will degrade over time to the point that it probably needs to be entirely rebuilt every so often. Billions of dollars every 100 years.

The ongoing costs for a ditch in the ground will be tiny in comparison. In 100 years it will just be getting basic resurfacing.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4264 Post by Saltwater » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:17 am

I live just off south road at Mile End and an elevated roadway is my worst nightmare. I’d obviously prefer to see a tunnel, but even a trench would be preferable to an elevated eyesore through inner Adelaide.

South Road is only two lanes through that section. Any option other than tunnels will require the removal of the entire strip of houses and businesses on or both sides of the road. Some of these houses are 100+ years old, before we even start to consider impacts to the Thebby etc, or my local down at the Hilton Hotel.

700+ people turned up for the south road action group meeting last week. The government should expect many thousands to become vocal very quickly if any elevated roadway is considered through that section.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4265 Post by aceman » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:42 am

seems after yesterday's sod turning that the only announcement the government has is that they're committed to completing the corridor.. nothing we haven't already heard a hundred times before 🙄

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4266 Post by Brucetiki » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:27 am

Meanwhile on R2P.

The demolition of Polonia Reserve is in full swing, with the scoreboard, fencing, interchange benches etc all gone. Pretty much only the club house and change rooms remain - though I'd be surprised if they will be still standing in a week or so.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4267 Post by AG » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:30 pm

bits wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:08 am
The problem I have with a huge bridge or tunnel is they just keep costing money forever. They are not permanent structures.

Constant checks for cracking and movement.

What is the expected life of the superway? I imagine it will degrade over time to the point that it probably needs to be entirely rebuilt every so often. Billions of dollars every 100 years.

The ongoing costs for a ditch in the ground will be tiny in comparison. In 100 years it will just be getting basic resurfacing.
With a trench, you are still dealing with structures that need maintenance - the retaining walls and the bridges that will need to cross it. With pretty much any option, some new structures will need to be built. Choosing not to build anything because it will need to be maintained is like choosing not to buy a house - because that will also need to be maintained. Nothing lasts forever, but with maintenance you can certainly prolong the life of it.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4268 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:35 pm

Saltwater wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:17 am
I live just off south road at Mile End and an elevated roadway is my worst nightmare. I’d obviously prefer to see a tunnel, but even a trench would be preferable to an elevated eyesore through inner Adelaide.

South Road is only two lanes through that section. Any option other than tunnels will require the removal of the entire strip of houses and businesses on or both sides of the road. Some of these houses are 100+ years old, before we even start to consider impacts to the Thebby etc, or my local down at the Hilton Hotel.

700+ people turned up for the south road action group meeting last week. The government should expect many thousands to become vocal very quickly if any elevated roadway is considered through that section.
This 100%.

An elevated roadway would be in no way suitable for residential areas of Adelaide and is exactly the sort of urban design that most cities abandoned decades ago.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4269 Post by ozisnowman » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Spotto wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:30 pm
If the government had started investigating and planning back after they won the election last year we might’ve have some kind of semi-complete plans by now or at the very least a rough outline. Instead it’s all in the too-hard basket. :wallbash: :wallbash:
The government should not be looking at extending this project over 10 years to spread the cost. This is a time of unbelievably low interest rates. Get on with the job.

Its too late for whinging and complaining - all the blame should site with past and current governments. As every time a property was up for sale in the last 10 years they could have purchased it in preparation for the build which they knew would happen eventually - but they did pardon the language s..t all and let private developers to build along the route. Take for example recent developments along South Road around Edwardstown and Clovelly Park eg Bunnings, Stratco and a lot of others.

There own stupidity is now backing them into a corner into looking at the very expensive option of using tunnels.

Even though earthquakes are infrequent here, just remember Adelaide lies on or near a fault line would not like to be stuck in a damn tunnel if one hits. As such i think they should replicate the Torrens to Torrens style regardless of cost or property buyouts and disruptions to business. Governments need to look at greater good for the State not just those living/working along the route.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4270 Post by rev » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:48 pm

Get a grip Adelaide, South Road is not lined by the Pyramid of Giza, Parthenon, Colloseum, Machu Picchu or the Great Wall.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4271 Post by SRW » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:59 pm

ozisnowman wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:18 pm
Even though earthquakes are infrequent here, just remember Adelaide lies on or near a fault line would not like to be stuck in a damn tunnel if one hits.
That should be no issue for engineers. Turkey built a double deck tunnel underneath the Bosphorus Strait in a far more seismically active region.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4272 Post by kymbosa » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 pm

Issues between Henley Beach road and Bradman is the highest restrictions due to the flight path.

As per the Adelaide airport act. The airspace around Adelaide Airport is protected under the Commonwealth Airports Act 1996 and the Airports (Protection of Airspace) Regulations 1996. ( https://www.adelaideairport.com.au/corp ... approvals/ )
0C9C297F-020F-4130-8347-6FCA4DF43449.jpeg
The tunnel or a cut out is the most logic solution to this part of South Road.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4273 Post by SBD » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:33 am

The original plan had possible elevated structure over the Torrens (but there were other options I think), then short tunnels under Henley Beach Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive. I think the elevated structure only began south of Anzac Highway to south of Daws Road.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4274 Post by ChillyPhilly » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:10 am

SBD wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:33 am
The original plan had possible elevated structure over the Torrens (but there were other options I think), then short tunnels under Henley Beach Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive. I think the elevated structure only began south of Anzac Highway to south of Daws Road.
If you find one of my most recent posts in this thread, you'll see a map of the original plan.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4275 Post by Bacon » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:21 am

How about stacking the road to reduce the footprint? Eg. 3 lane trench southbound and northbound runs on top of it at surface Iike a double decker? This was an element in one of the early proposed designs of T2T between Port and Grange roads

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