News & Discussion: Trams

[metro]

As for the tram, it needs to turn immediately north into the Bowden development then turn a little west and terminate at Ethelbert Square (anyone know where that is) to take advantage of the med-high density housing development. If anyone looks at a map of Bowden/Brompton, there are parts in the middle that are a long walk from any PT, yet we have one of the most densest areas of inner Adelaide, go figure. There is a 5 level apartment block a few streets in from the Brompton pub, that is no where near walking distance (ie under 5 mins) to either Bowden Station, Port Rd, or Hawker st buses, so if the tram could terminate in the middle of Bowden/Brompton it would reach quite a few people

edit, so turn north either run the tram along Drayton St or East St into Bowden, then turn west down Third St, this would serve a lot of people

That part of Bowden/Brompton fairly densely populated by Adelaide standards, but you're right most of it is just outside of walking distance to public transport, I think either run the tram to Coopers Stadium or into Ethelbert Square via either Drayton or Chief Sts would be a good cheap little extension of the tram network. The other thing about the new Bowden development, the area being built right now is right across the road from North Adelaide Station and much closer than walking to Bowden or the tram, one would think that being a transit oriented development that North Adelaide would have been upgraded (instead of Munno Para which is surrounded by paddocks on the suburban fringe) and make all Gawler trains stop there, presently it only gets a few services during the day and no services on the weekends.

[Goodsy]

If anyone else was wondering where the hell Ethelbert square is

[bits]

Bowden with a tram feels like a dead end; where do you go from there? Just service it with a bus.

I agree it should turn at milner and have a stop on there as it looks wide enough to hold it. That will cater for coopers stadium. Then head down grange.

[rev]

The reason they want to run the tram through the Bowden redevelopment, is because it will be a high density area.
One can argue, and this argument has been had already on this forum, whether a train or tram is a better option though.

What an incredible waste of tax payers money it would be to run the tram line to Coopers stadium.
What the heck for guys?
The stadium isn't used all year round. When it is used on a regular basis in summer, at most there are 16,000 people there. On a good day.
The only time the government should consider running a tram to Coopers is when there is a concrete plan for redeveloping the stadium, because Adelaide United have made no secret of the fact they want to be in a bigger purpose built stadium for them and their code, which makes them an unreliable tenant in the mid to long term. In the short to mid term Coopers stadium will be as it is.
What happens after the government spends tens of millions extending the tram line to Coopers, and then a year or two later Adelaide United announce they've made a deal that includes the FFA and say a private land holder, to build a new stadium somewhere else?
Can you say white elephant giant waste of tax payers money?

Redevelop Coopers stadium and tie in Adelaide United as the anchor tenant for the next 30 years. Then extend the tram line to Coopers stadium.
And I'm not saying redeveloping Coopers is a viable option(or isn't), but there needs to be justification for an extension to it, with as little risk as possible of it being a waste of money.

[urban]

The reason they want to run the tram to Coopers Stadium is that it can be the first step in extending the tram down Grange Road which is a wide road corridor which has plenty development sites crying out for medium to high density infill. Unlocking this potential will give the govt much greater return than providing additional services to an area where the PT could be slightly better.

Once the tram has been run to Grange it could return in a loop up Henley Beach Rd, SDB Drive or using the Grange spur as suggested by other users on this site.

Bowden and The Parade will develop into medium to high density hubs whether a tram line is built to them or not.

[Waewick]

The reason they want to run the tram to Coopers Stadium is that it can be the first step in extending the tram down Grange Road which is a wide road corridor which has plenty development sites crying out for medium to high density infill. Unlocking this potential will give the govt much greater return than providing additional services to an area where the PT could be slightly better.

Once the tram has been run to Grange it could return in a loop up Henley Beach Rd, SDB Drive or using the Grange spur as suggested by other users on this site.

Bowden and The Parade will develop into medium to high density hubs whether a tram line is built to them or not.

yes, but the point is to get people on PT - so you put it where the people are, that way they actually pay for it rather than putting it somewhere and paying people to go it. .(without then having to pay for a carpark so people can drive to the stop and then you end up subisdiding the Tram and the carpark)

[urban]

People do actually live in the West, even quite close to Grange Rd. I've heard that some of them actually like living there! I try to avoid the place myself. A tram to The Parade would suit me better personally.

The uplift in PT use by a tram down Grange Rd would be much greater than The Parade or Bowden.

Govt's spend money for 2 reasons:
- Politics
- Economics

[Waewick]

People do actually live in the West, even quite close to Grange Rd. I've heard that some of them actually like living there! I try to avoid the place myself. A tram to The Parade would suit me better personally.

The uplift in PT use by a tram down Grange Rd would be much greater than The Parade or Bowden.

Govt's spend money for 2 reasons:
- Politics
- Economics

what makes you say that?

[ChillyPhilly]

A tram down towards Hindmarsh Stadium in the future would be a motivator for a redevelopment of the area, once the Bowden Urban Village TOD is mostly complete. The area has huge potential to be home to cafes, restaurants and intensified mixed use development that can greatly boost the match day experience for United.

[PeFe]

Here is my fantasy tram network for the Henley/Grange/West Lakes area.

1) Tram down Henley Beach Road with 2 branches
- Airport Line branching off Henley Beach Rd down Airport Rd. to the airport
- Woodville Station Line via Henley Beach Road, Seaview Rd (north) Military Rd (south) and then meeting the Grange heavy rail
alignment to Woodville Station.
2) - West Lakes Line from Woodville station via West Lakes Boulevard to West Lakes Shopping Centre
3) The trams travel down the Currie/Grenfell transit corridor (buses,trams, taxis and delivery vehicles only) connecting to the newly
converted Tee Tree Plaza tram line (formerly known as the O-Bahn)

Why and How
- The former heavy rail Grange line is converted to light rail (in addition to the West Lakes line) terminating at newly built Woodville
train station ( now a tod development). All trams connect (timetable wise, in and out) with the electric heavy rail service into the
Adelaide CBD.
- The Woodville tram is meant to operate in 2 distinct sections: those people living north of Grange Road would catch the tram
northwards towards Woodville to meet the train. Those living south of Grange Road would catch the tram directly into the city.
- This plan connects the Grange/West lakes trams to the main network rather than leaving them as isolated lines.
- The Henley Beach/Airport corridor really should be the next tram line in Adelaide. Th Parade/Prospect and Unley Roads just don't
cut it terms of public transport numbers.
- The beaches are destinations in their own right, passenger traffic would be generated outside of normal work hours.

[OlympusAnt]

Its kind of ironic we are having this discussion about rebuilding tram lines that should never have been removed

[Mpol]

LOVE THIS IDEA! I love that loops all together, making it one bit Western loop.

[Goodsy]

Its kind of ironic we are having this discussion about rebuilding tram lines that should never have been removed

It's the same story with every city in the world that decided to rip up it's tram network

[monotonehell]

Here is my fantasy tram network for the Henley/Grange/West Lakes area...

That incorporates far too long lines for light rail (tram). You're mixing transport types with no regard for their abilities or strengths.

For example the Glenelg line is just outside what a tram line should be in length. Tram lines should not be much longer than a 20 minute journey end to end. After that, busways, guided busways or heavy rail should be considered, depending on need / circumstances.

* Tram lines should be a local affair, short routes, loop routes, on street, many stops, servicing small movements.
* Busways / guided busways should be used for long reach journeys, bunny hopping inner suburbs, with limited stops to spread out destinations, around the clock, where the buses can leave the corridor and service commuters door to door.
* Heavy rail, similar to busways, should be long reach journeys with limited stops, but for larger numbers of commuters concentrated by either time or destination (serviced by sweeper buses at the stations).

[PeFe]

Here is my fantasy tram network for the Henley/Grange/West Lakes area...

That incorporates far too long lines for light rail (tram). You're mixing transport types with no regard for their abilities or strengths.

For example the Glenelg line is just outside what a tram line should be in length. Tram lines should not be much longer than a 20 minute journey end to end. After that, busways, guided busways or heavy rail should be considered, depending on need / circumstances.

* Tram lines should be a local affair, short routes, loop routes, on street, many stops, servicing small movements.
* Busways / guided busways should be used for long reach journeys, bunny hopping inner suburbs, with limited stops to spread out destinations, around the clock, where the buses can leave the corridor and service commuters door to door.
* Heavy rail, similar to busways, should be long reach journeys with limited stops, but for larger numbers of commuters concentrated by either time or destination (serviced by sweeper buses at the stations).

Well for a start there are 3 distinct lines -West Lakes to Woodville, maybe 3km......City to Airport 5km?...and then City to Woodville (which actually has 2 distinct sections...Grange Rd to Woodville Station maybe 5 km and the City to Grange Road which is probably 10kms)
I am sure that if I did do a huge internet search on light rail/tram systems around the world I would find maybe 50 examples of longer lines...for starters lets go to Melbourne...city to La Trobe University (20 km) Route 16 Kew via St Kilda maybe 20 km and Knox tram (20km?).
Now lets compare to light rail systems in other cities that are low sprawling suburbia, like Los Angeles for instance..the LA CBD - Long Beach line is currently 32 km but when the downtown connector is built and the northern end of the Gold line will run to Long Beach
then you will have a light rail line that stretches 70-80km from Long Beach to Azusa via Downtown LA.......
If you are more interested in how some American cities work their light rail systems then read my posts here
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4804

Tram lines should be a local affair, short routes, loop routes, on street, many stops, servicing small movements.

This is what Americans call streetcars

Heavy rail, similar to busways, should be long reach journeys with limited stops, but for larger numbers of commuters concentrated by either time or destination (serviced by sweeper buses at the stations).

The Paris Metro and London Tube are heavy rail, neither of those fit your description.
Definitions of rail based transport should be treated with caution, there are always examples that dont follow the rules. The LA (light rail system) is a classic one, partly street running, mostly ROW, stations spaced far apart like commuter rail, "big" trams that are couples together like small trains...