News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Norman
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1681 Post by Norman » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:08 pm

Most of the light poles between Frome Street and East Terrace on the southern side of North Terrace have been removed.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1682 Post by rubberman » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:47 am

Norman wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:08 pm
Most of the light poles between Frome Street and East Terrace on the southern side of North Terrace have been removed.
Interestingly, those poles were actually used for holding up the span wires for the MTT trams down North Terrace.

I wonder if anyone thought to test them to see if they could be recycled for...holding up span wires.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1683 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:31 pm

When I spoke to the DPTI chaps in the mall a few months back they advised that most of the existing street lamps would be able to be used to hold the span wires for the tram extension.

I would assume therefore that if any are being removed then it will be due to a legitimate reason rather than an oversight.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1684 Post by Joelmark » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 am

The light poles that are capable of supporting the new tram wires are those "Adelaide Poles" that were installed along North Terrace in the upgrades of 2003-10. Sections of Nth Tce that haven't been upgraded yet for example the section between Frome and East Tce will either need new infrastructure to support the wiring or the Adelaide Pole. The 5 million dollars that the ACC is contributing to the project will presumably bring the Frome-East Tce section up to a similar standard as the 2003-10 upgrades outside the museum, govt. house etc. and if we're lucky we might see the section from King William Street to Gawler Pl south side done too (or at least improved).

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1685 Post by rubberman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 am

Joelmark wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 am
The light poles that are capable of supporting the new tram wires are those "Adelaide Poles" that were installed along North Terrace in the upgrades of 2003-10. Sections of Nth Tce that haven't been upgraded yet for example the section between Frome and East Tce will either need new infrastructure to support the wiring or the Adelaide Pole. The 5 million dollars that the ACC is contributing to the project will presumably bring the Frome-East Tce section up to a similar standard as the 2003-10 upgrades outside the museum, govt. house etc. and if we're lucky we might see the section from King William Street to Gawler Pl south side done too (or at least improved).
The existing poles could certainly carry tramway overhead - that was their original function, and poles of that design (it was a British Standard iirc) did so successfully for years on systems using British Standards for tramway overhead.

Possibly though, the new poles have better lighting? If the old poles were being replaced solely for putting up tram overhead, one would need to ask about whether that was gold plating.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1686 Post by Norman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:12 am

I think the old poles also carried wires for the lights, so they are undergrounding those lines as far as I can see.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1687 Post by crawf » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:34 am

Joelmark wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 am
The 5 million dollars that the ACC is contributing to the project will presumably bring the Frome-East Tce section up to a similar standard as the 2003-10 upgrades outside the museum, govt. house etc. and if we're lucky we might see the section from King William Street to Gawler Pl south side done too (or at least improved).
Do not understand why this wasn't done in the first place. For our premier boulevard, North Terrace is such a mish-mash.
rubberman wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 am
The existing poles could certainly carry tramway overhead - that was their original function, and poles of that design (it was a British Standard iirc) did so successfully for years on systems using British Standards for tramway overhead.

Possibly though, the new poles have better lighting? If the old poles were being replaced solely for putting up tram overhead, one would need to ask about whether that was gold plating.
Those poles used to run along the entire stretch of North Terrace. However last decade they were replaced with modern light poles to improve the lighting and most importantly, the streetscape.

This is not gold platting. The old light poles have been needed to be replaced for a very long time, it's only been delayed due to the eventual closure and demolition of the ORAH. In actually fact, street lighting needs to be improved in many parts of the CBD. Minor things like attractive street lighting, can make a big positive impact on its surrounds.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1688 Post by rubberman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:32 pm

crawf wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:34 am
Joelmark wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 am
The 5 million dollars that the ACC is contributing to the project will presumably bring the Frome-East Tce section up to a similar standard as the 2003-10 upgrades outside the museum, govt. house etc. and if we're lucky we might see the section from King William Street to Gawler Pl south side done too (or at least improved).
Do not understand why this wasn't done in the first place. For our premier boulevard, North Terrace is such a mish-mash.
rubberman wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 am
The existing poles could certainly carry tramway overhead - that was their original function, and poles of that design (it was a British Standard iirc) did so successfully for years on systems using British Standards for tramway overhead.

Possibly though, the new poles have better lighting? If the old poles were being replaced solely for putting up tram overhead, one would need to ask about whether that was gold plating.
Those poles used to run along the entire stretch of North Terrace. However last decade they were replaced with modern light poles to improve the lighting and most importantly, the streetscape.

This is not gold platting. The old light poles have been needed to be replaced for a very long time, it's only been delayed due to the eventual closure and demolition of the ORAH. In actually fact, street lighting needs to be improved in many parts of the CBD. Minor things like attractive street lighting, can make a big positive impact on its surrounds.
Yeah. What I said was that if new poles were being installed because of new lighting requirements, that's fair enough, but if as some have stated, new poles were required to hold up the overhead, then there's a question of gold plating. Those poles were designed to hold up tramway overhead. That's the point.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1689 Post by SRW » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:56 pm

I don't think it's gold plating to ensure the same standard of pole is used for the length of the extension.
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1690 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:21 pm

So along this stretch of North Terrace there won't be any middle poles like there is along KWS?
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1691 Post by Norman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:51 pm

[Shuz] wrote:So along this stretch of North Terrace there won't be any middle poles like there is along KWS?
No. It will be more like Jetty Road.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1692 Post by rubberman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:30 pm

SRW wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:56 pm
I don't think it's gold plating to ensure the same standard of pole is used for the length of the extension.
That's why we pay more per km for tram extensions than Switzerland I guess. It's only money.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1693 Post by bits » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:49 pm

rubberman wrote: That's why we pay more per km for tram extensions than Switzerland I guess. It's only money.
Is Switzerland tram extensions costs a standard that we should be comparing to?
Does Australia typically build comparable things cheaper than Switzerland except for tram extensions?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1694 Post by SouthAussie94 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:03 pm

rubberman wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Yeah. What I said was that if new poles were being installed because of new lighting requirements, that's fair enough, but if as some have stated, new poles were required to hold up the overhead, then there's a question of gold plating. Those poles were designed to hold up tramway overhead. That's the point.
They were designed to hold up tramway overhead 50+ years ago. Standards change. Just because they were suitable 50 years ago, doesn't mean they are suitable now. They've been pulled out, obviously for a reason, as someone who has all of the facts available has decided that they're not suitable for whatever reason. Again, they had all of the facts. I don't (and I presume that you don't either..)

It is hardly gold plating..
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#1695 Post by rubberman » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:16 pm

SouthAussie94 wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:03 pm
rubberman wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Yeah. What I said was that if new poles were being installed because of new lighting requirements, that's fair enough, but if as some have stated, new poles were required to hold up the overhead, then there's a question of gold plating. Those poles were designed to hold up tramway overhead. That's the point.
They were designed to hold up tramway overhead 50+ years ago. Standards change. Just because they were suitable 50 years ago, doesn't mean they are suitable now. They've been pulled out, obviously for a reason, as someone who has all of the facts available has decided that they're not suitable for whatever reason. Again, they had all of the facts. I don't (and I presume that you don't either..)

It is hardly gold plating..
Yep. Let's not question our betters. They know what's best for us.

Mind you, centre island platforms, bib and bub Citadis trams and expensive track, don't give me confidence. But as you say, governments know better than us ordinary folk.

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