News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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1NEEDS2POST
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4156 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:38 pm

The Port Adelaide-Dry Creek railways will soon be disused because there is a new railway being built over the salt flats. I think if we have a Port Adelaide tram, we could continue the tram along the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek alignment. Then at Dry Creek, continue on the old Northfield alignment. A small amount of street running and you're at the O-Bahn station at Tea Tree Plaza.

It would be a straight East-West route connecting Modbury, Port Adelaide and Semaphore. I don't expect this to be built anytime soon!

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4157 Post by Honey of a City » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:12 pm

Spotto wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:32 pm
Been sitting on this thought experiment for a long while now, the Glanville carpark closure and Port Dock delay has pushed me forward. Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

Regardless of whether the Port Dock spur goes ahead or not, I think an interesting way to help revitalise local business and foot traffic in both Semaphore and the Port would connecting the Port to the beach with a tram. With some adjustments to the angled parking on Semapore Road between Military Road and Glanville, it's still wide enough from its rail days to accompdate a tram line down the centre. Unlike Labor's proposed PortLINK, the trains are retained for longer distance travel into the CBD, while the tram serves local connectivity with accessible modal shifts at Glanville and Baker Street/Port Dock; also possible for a Commercial Road branch that interfaces with Port Adelaide station.

Its isolation from the existing network means that we could tender it under a BOOT scheme similar to Canberra Metro or G:link where a consortium builds it then owns and operates it for 15-20 years as part of the construction tender. Could also be used as an opportunity to experiment with some sections running APS power supply free from the constraints of the existing network and its stock.

I envisioned the depot on existing DPTI land at the eastern side of Glanville station where the Birkenhead loop used to be, but that's just now been sold off... :wallbash:
It’s a great plan Spotto and one I’ve been advocating for a while. Semaphore Rd and Jetty are really poorly served right now, and to get to the city from near the beach you’re looking at a 50-minute bus ride via woop-woop or a very long walk down to Glanville station. The absurd short-sightedness in flogging the Glanville Station carpark to the developer who’s closing it permanently is infuriating too. Where those dozens of daily commuters are now going to park now is anyone’s guess. From a tourist perspective having the tram shuttle through the Port between the jetty and the Dock 2 maritime park (if that ever gets off the ground) would be magic.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4158 Post by PD2/20 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:21 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:38 pm
The Port Adelaide-Dry Creek railways will soon be disused because there is a new railway being built over the salt flats. I think if we have a Port Adelaide tram, we could continue the tram along the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek alignment. Then at Dry Creek, continue on the old Northfield alignment. A small amount of street running and you're at the O-Bahn station at Tea Tree Plaza.

It would be a straight East-West route connecting Modbury, Port Adelaide and Semaphore. I don't expect this to be built anytime soon!
The Northern Connector rail link has been deferred and is not under construction. The Northfield alignment is now under the Dry Creek Depot.

The proposed route is notable for the lack of residential catchment between Port Adelaide and Walkleys/Grand Junction Road.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4159 Post by Spotto » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:10 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:38 pm
The Port Adelaide-Dry Creek railways will soon be disused because there is a new railway being built over the salt flats.
The Northern Connector will not be including the rail bypass, freight will be continuing along the current lines. Besides, freight will still need access to Gillman Junction and Pelican Point, so the line would still see use regardless.
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:38 pm
I think if we have a Port Adelaide tram, we could continue the tram along the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek alignment. Then at Dry Creek, continue on the old Northfield alignment. A small amount of street running and you're at the O-Bahn station at Tea Tree Plaza.

It would be a straight East-West route connecting Modbury, Port Adelaide and Semaphore. I don't expect this to be built anytime soon!
A passenger rail link on the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek line might be worth looking into for future purposes connecting northern commuters on the Gawler Line to the Port Adelaide-Semaphore area, Glanville to Mawson Lakes or Salisbury as a smaller copy of the T5 Line in Sydney. Future patronage might support such a service in 10+ years but we should at least look into it and consider planning ahead (doubt it under Liberals though). A deal would have to be cut with ARTC to build separate BG tracks next to their freight line, you don't want to mess around with interfering services.

But definitely not for trams. The idea of trams is for local connectivity. Other than residential areas in Rosewater and Ottoway (Gillman Junction), there's nowhere that people would want to go along the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek alignment which is all industrial land (including Dry Creek). The Northfield triangle has also been fully built over with the railcar depot and adjacent businesses.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4160 Post by I Follow PAFC » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:57 pm

Partial tram closure late Sat night 6 to 23 July
Tram stops closed between South Tce and Entertainment Centre and Botanic Gardens. See details of timetables and substitute buses.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... eplacement
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4161 Post by Spotto » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:56 pm

I Follow PAFC wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:57 pm
Partial tram closure late Sat night 6 to 23 July
Tram stops closed between South Tce and Entertainment Centre and Botanic Gardens.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity to install those new passenger information displays considering all the stops in question will be closed. Will common sense prevail??

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4162 Post by Joelmark » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:34 pm

I Follow PAFC wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:57 pm
Partial tram closure late Sat night 6 to 23 July
Tram stops closed between South Tce and Entertainment Centre and Botanic Gardens. See details of timetables and substitute buses.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... eplacement
This is the downside of having only one tram depot - it means half the system is shut down for a (relatively) short maintenance and rebuild job. If the system is ever extended to Norwood, Prospect or the airport, I'm guessing a second tram depot would be needed which would also allow trams to be run from the Entertainment Centre to Botanic Garden, in the event of work on any section of the King William St corridor.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4163 Post by Patrick_27 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:42 am

Joelmark wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:34 pm
I Follow PAFC wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:57 pm
Partial tram closure late Sat night 6 to 23 July
Tram stops closed between South Tce and Entertainment Centre and Botanic Gardens. See details of timetables and substitute buses.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... eplacement
This is the downside of having only one tram depot - it means half the system is shut down for a (relatively) short maintenance and rebuild job. If the system is ever extended to Norwood, Prospect or the airport, I'm guessing a second tram depot would be needed which would also allow trams to be run from the Entertainment Centre to Botanic Garden, in the event of work on any section of the King William St corridor.
There was a second depot touted in the AdeLINK proposal, not sure where. I think Thebarton would be a good spot for a second depot considering the industrial land freeing up in that area, could be tucked away behind future residential plans.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4164 Post by d3v310per » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:10 pm

From In Daily.... https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2019/ ... laide-cbd/

Extended tram network in 20-year vision to mobilise Adelaide CBD

Extending the tram network in the CBD will be the target of a new 20-year city transport strategy to be co-developed by the State Government and Adelaide City Council.

The State Government has today opened a $330,000 tender to develop what it calls a “public-facing strategy” in conjunction with the city council to improve public transport, road, cycling and pedestrian infrastructure in and around the city.

New transport technologies, including on-demand services, and electric and autonomous vehicles, will also be considered.

But it is not yet clear if the public will be able to scrutinise the plan, with a government spokesperson telling InDaily the strategy would be “prepared for potential public release” early next year.

Also unclear is the funding the Government is willing to commit to implement the strategy’s recommendations, with the spokesperson adding, “this is a development of a long-term strategy and there is no further commitment of funding at this stage.”

“However, the outcomes of the strategy will be considered for funding in future.”

According to the tender invitation, the strategy’s objectives will include addressing growing network congestion, improving connections to, from and within the city, supporting city and business growth, and delivering safer transport options for city residents and visitors.

The invitation also states a “key element” of the strategy will involve consideration of tram extensions within the CBD.

“The State Government has identified the consideration of a business case for tram extensions as a priority for Infrastructure SA,” the invitation states.

“There is also merit to consider targeted tram/light rail routes outside the CBD, such as LeFevre Peninsula.”

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said the strategy would also help deliver more “customer-focussed” public transport services.

“Obviously almost all of our bus, train and tram services either begin, terminate or pass through the Adelaide CBD,” he said.

“That’s why it is so important we develop a long-term transport strategy so the Adelaide CBD is able to better cope with public transport services now and into the future.

“We don’t want to see bottlenecks and more congestion in our CBD into the future.”

Asked if the Government would consider addressing the bus congestion problems down Grenfell Street as part of the strategy, a spokesperson replied: “more effective bus movement in the city will be a key objective of the strategy”.

InDaily also enquired if the Government would consider increasing funding to deliver more separated bikeways through the CBD.

“The strategy may identify further cycling investment needs,” the government spokesperson said.

Lord Mayor Sandy Verschoor told InDaily the city council would ensure the strategy included improved transport options for all people, regardless or their age or ability.

She said the council would push for paving and crossing upgrades, more scramble crossing and countdown timers to improve pedestrian safety, and the installation of more separated bikeways.

Verschoor said the council’s wish list also included “a CBD tram loop and extensions to key inner-city areas, such as North Adelaide; an electric bus fleet to improve the experience for passengers and other city users (and) better coordination of road works and building works to minimise the impact to road users”.

“This strategy will help deliver safer and more efficient access, address growing congestion, and support growth in the City of Adelaide,” she said.

“It keeps a firm eye on the future by addressing the emerging use of autonomous and electric vehicles in the years ahead.”

A government spokesperson said the successful applicant for the tender would be required to submit a stakeholder engagement plan during the early stages of the consultation process.

“It is nevertheless intended to undertake stakeholder and community engagement as part of the process,” the spokesperson said.

Prospective applicants have until July 23 to submit their proposals.

The tender invitation states the Department for Planning, Transport and Infrastructure will form a steering committee and working group in partnership with the city council to implement the strategy.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4165 Post by Kasey771 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Another report commissioned so the govt can’t be accused of neglecting Public Transport entirely. As a user of the Gawler Line, please wake me up when something positive/productive happens.

"Also unclear is the funding the Government is willing to commit to implement the strategy’s recommendations, with the spokesperson adding, “this is a development of a long-term strategy and there is no further commitment of funding at this stage.”

“However, the outcomes of the strategy will be considered for funding in future.” " ImageImage



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Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4166 Post by Honey of a City » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:13 am

Interesting that LeFevre Peninsula and light rail and merit all appear in the same sentence. Is there a glimmer of hope there?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4167 Post by ChillyPhilly » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:32 am

Honey of a City wrote:Interesting that LeFevre Peninsula and light rail and merit all appear in the same sentence. Is there a glimmer of hope there?
Not with a Liberal Government. Sorry.
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4168 Post by Waewick » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:38 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Honey of a City wrote:Interesting that LeFevre Peninsula and light rail and merit all appear in the same sentence. Is there a glimmer of hope there?
Not with a Liberal Government. Sorry.
I guess that massive 6kms of tram over 16 years gives you hope with the other mob.Image

Full credit to Labor, they knew how to keep people dreaming.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4169 Post by rubberman » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:32 am
Honey of a City wrote:Interesting that LeFevre Peninsula and light rail and merit all appear in the same sentence. Is there a glimmer of hope there?
Not with a Liberal Government. Sorry.
Actually, converting the Port line...and maybe the Belair line to light rail...which would shaft the rail unions nicely, and be cheaper than replacing heavy rail vehicles and signalling on those lines is not that far fetched. In addition, an underground city loop using light rail connecting the Belair and Port lines underground would be cheaper than heavy rail Gawler/Seaford underground.

Shafting the rail unions and saving money? I think the Liberal Government would certainly look at it.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4170 Post by claybro » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:42 pm

rubberman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:37 pm
[quote=ChillyPhilly post_id=181931 time=<a href="tel:1561770148">1561770148</a> user_id=1971]
Honey of a City wrote:Interesting that LeFevre Peninsula and light rail and merit all appear in the same sentence. Is there a glimmer of hope there?
Not with a Liberal Government. Sorry.
Actually, converting the Port line...and maybe the Belair line to light rail...which would shaft the rail unions nicely, and be cheaper than replacing heavy rail vehicles and signalling on those lines is not that far fetched. In addition, an underground city loop using light rail connecting the Belair and Port lines underground would be cheaper than heavy rail Gawler/Seaford underground.

Shafting the rail unions and saving money? I think the Liberal Government would certainly look at it.
[/quote]

Agree with all of his Rubberman. However given the vocal heavy rail folk on here, I would say the public would be apoplectic if their heavy rail was taken away, even though by current patronage very few of them even use it.

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