News & Discussion: Trams

[Norman]

Thanks for the lesson in literature righteousness, Norm.

Glad to help

[cruel_world00]

What do you people think about having a tram down pulteney and unley roads?

There is so much potential along this corridor and I think that car traffic shouldn't really be encouraged along this corridor. Hmmm, it's a tricky situation really.

[Wayno]

What do you people think about having a tram down pulteney and unley roads?

There is so much potential along this corridor and I think that car traffic shouldn't really be encouraged along this corridor. Hmmm, it's a tricky situation really.

Unley rd is really only 1 "and a bit" lanes in each direction now so it might be difficult to squeeze a tram in as well, even if the lane is shared with traffic.

What about branching off the existing tram line and heading down KW Rd into Hyde Park (terminate at Mitchell St or Northgate St)?. The traffic is already very slow down KW rd at the best of times, and the locals would probably warm to the idea of a Tram as it would reduce through traffic from the area.

[cruel_world00]

What do you people think about having a tram down pulteney and unley roads?

There is so much potential along this corridor and I think that car traffic shouldn't really be encouraged along this corridor. Hmmm, it's a tricky situation really.

Unley rd is really only 1 "and a bit" lanes in each direction now so it might be difficult to squeeze a tram in as well, even if the lane is shared with traffic.

What about branching off the existing tram line and heading down KW Rd into Hyde Park (terminate at Mitchell St or Northgate St)?. The traffic is already very slow down KW rd at the best of times, and the locals would probably warm to the idea of a Tram as it would reduce through traffic from the area.

I was leaving towards the Melbourne style tram lines shared with the cars rather than a dedicated tram lane.

[Shuz]

I think the Unley/Pulteney tram idea should only be implemented once PT really starts to be used as an alternative to the car (20% weekday usuage) and with the construction of other routes (Airport, Prospect, Parade, etc.) to warrant its viability.

[Omicron]

More high density housing on Anzac Highway? Sounds awesome!

To begin with, they can heave a wrecking ball through practically every single property along the north side of Anzac Highway from Morphett Road to Stonehouse Avenue - ghastly outdated pillboxes tossed randomly along the roadside and cemented down wherever they landed. With the linear park running directly behind, it's a fine location for a series of well-designed medium-density developments that can take advantage of a continuous green space and outstanding existing bus and tram services.

[bm7500]

Tramline Euro vision

Chris Day
16Jul08
http://www.citymessenger.com.au

THE Transport Department could be forced to lease 20-year-old trams from Europe to ease overcrowding on the city to Bay tramline.


``We're in a difficult situation,'' the department's executive director of infrastructure, Rod Hook, said last week.

``A lot of cities are turning back to trams and (the size of) our orders are miniscule on a world scale.''

The department is looking to lease or buy up to six old trams by the end of the year.

Mr Hook told the City Messenger there was a world shortage of trams but he was confident of securing the extra vehicles.

The department has written to about 200 tram operators and suppliers around the world inquiring about tram availability.

Likely options include companies in Germany, France, Belgium, the UK and the US. The department plans to use the old trams for two to five years.

``If we find some that are 15 to 20 years old, we can use them as backup,'' Mr Hook said.

``If we get some that are only a few years old, we would use them for a longer period of time.''

The Victorian State Government, however, had less trouble finding extra trams. In May, Yarra Trams added five new C2-Class trams to the network under a three-year, $10 million lease agreement with the trams French owners. The trams can carry up to 240 passengers.

Paying tram patronage in Adelaide has risen 21 percent in the past year, to 187,000 passengers a month, following the completion of the Victoria Square to North Tce extension. Thousands more a month are using the free tram shuttle service, between South Tce and North Tce.

Mr Hook said the service was ``running at capacity'' but the government ``was clearly responding to the demand''.
An order will soon be made for four new Flexity-Class trams, at a cost of about $24 million, with delivery expected by early 2010.

Those trams will be used on the existing line and the planned extension from the city to the Adelaide Entertainment Centre.

Mr Hook said it was not viable to return the old 1929 H-Class trams to the network because they were ``too unreliable'' to cope with peak-hour demand

[Hindley Street Alley]

I'd like to know in what way are the old trams "too unreliable"?
-not on time?
-not very modern?

...sounds like the new trams

They operated every day for many years until recently... we already have them sitting here, it seems a waste to rent/lease other trams from overseas. Plus the old trams are cool.

but i suppose if they are really "unreliable" then there's no choice

[Shuz]

If we've had 20 year old (ahem... 80 year old) trams before, I don't see why we can't do it again. Oooh, the thought of 1980's trams in Adelaide excites me. How ugly do they look?

[muzzamo]

Why dont they just purchase the tram-trains now, in addition to the 4 new flexitys?

[Shuz]

Why dont they just purchase the tram-trains now, in addition to the 4 new flexitys?

$$$. It's all about the money.
I know they've allocated $2b for the network upgrades, but thats over 10 years. They actually don't have the $2b now, they've allocated what they can this year, they'll allocate what they can next year and there simply isn't any reserved funds right now unless they decide to make cutbacks elsewhere. But I doubt that. Just to get these orders in now is sacrificing something else as it is.

[loud]

Why dont they just purchase the tram-trains now, in addition to the 4 new flexitys?

$$$. It's all about the money.
I know they've allocated $2b for the network upgrades, but thats over 10 years. They actually don't have the $2b now, they've allocated what they can this year, they'll allocate what they can next year and there simply isn't any reserved funds right now unless they decide to make cutbacks elsewhere. But I doubt that. Just to get these orders in now is sacrificing something else as it is.

The purchase of the new trams isn't a money issue at all... it is only going to cost the governmetn $24m... which is pocket change really

I believe it is purely a timing issue, due to:

1) We are trying to place a tiny order with companies that are contracted to build larger quantities of trams for bigger goverment requirements. tiny order = tiny $$$'s, big order = big $$$'s, I know which government I would serve first!
2) Trams take a while to be built & delivered, its not like building a car on a production line with a 1 day turn around.
3) We need trams now and cant wait for them to be built.

[Will409]

I'd like to know in what way are the old trams "too unreliable"?
-not on time?
-not very modern?

...sounds like the new trams

They operated every day for many years until recently... we already have them sitting here, it seems a waste to rent/lease other trams from overseas. Plus the old trams are cool.

but i suppose if they are really "unreliable" then there's no choice

A combination of several factors.

- Slow (by modern standards) accelaration and braking time.
- Fail with flying colours DDA compliance standards which have a set deadline (I think all public transport vehicles need to be 100% DDA compliant by 2016).
- Wanna try to find spare parts for a 79 year old tram?

Like the 20 extra buses that will be put into service which are second hand fill ins, they need to add the extra trams in as a matter of urgency.

Why don't they just purchase the tram-trains now, in addition to the 4 new flexitys?

The average rail vehicle (both heavy and light) lead time from making the order to delivery is around 2 years or so. The current Flexi fleet was ordered in 2003 when the Glenelg line rebuild was announced and budgeted for with the first arriving in 2005 and deliveries continuing until the end of 2006/start of 2007.

Oooh, the thought of 1980's trams in Adelaide excites me. How ugly do they look?

Here are a few examples of Australian trams built in the 1980s.

Z3 class - introduced 1980


A class - introduced 1983


B class - introduced 1985

[urban]

They're all pretty ugly, but I'll take an ugly tram over no tram any day.

[monotonehell]

They're all pretty ugly, but I'll take an ugly tram over no tram any day.

Make up your mind. Are they pretty or ugly?

I agree, old trams and buses now and new trams and buses in the future is better than not enough trams and buses now.