[COM] Torrens Junction Underpass

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SouthAussie94
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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#46 Post by SouthAussie94 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:17 pm

Westside wrote:Do developers in Adelaide have the appetite to 'rent' the air above railway lines from the Government ad infinitum?

I suspect this may be one of the barriers between getting our money back from a tunnel vs a trench.
Could this be the rationale behind an open trench? The air rights above could be sold and developed, turning the trench into a defacto tunnel, without the added cost associated with building a tunnel from the onset.

If a tunnel were to be built, what would happen to the 'land' above the rail corridor? Would it become a linear park? Would it be sold and developed? If this were the case, how is it different to a trench which is later developed?
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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#47 Post by Norman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:49 pm

The Torrens Junction project is expected to be approved with conditions (as far as I can read, maybe Ben can confirm)

The report has this to say regarding the trench instead of the tunnel option:
Overall, the submitted design has a number of positives - in terms of improved connectivity, functional public realm integration and general consistency with the Bowden Masterplan. It should be noted that final design issues are yet to be resolved, with the need to ‘reserve’ certain elements - namely the pedestrian bridges and station precinct - although it is acknowledged the essential building blocks are in place.

The station solution does not fully accord with the Development Plan, which sought an underground station further west of its proposed position (although if enacted, this would make issues of heritage adjacency more problematic). However, on the threshold test, the station scheme is considered an appropriate one, with an acceptable level of connectivity and visual interest for a neighbourhood level station. It should also be noted, that the rail corridor works will be engineered to enable a future cover to be installed, which does not preclude other development opportunities to be explored. The
proposed external materials appear to offer a complementary palette of colours and finishes that can be easily maintained.
That's not so bad then.

The Riverbank Authority has echoed many concerns raised here regarding the narrow footbridges. I can't tell if there has been a change in width, but it looks like an extra bridge at the old Boden Station building has been added.

The rest of the report can be read here, which includes the conditions this approval is subject to (From Page 56): http://www.dac.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/ ... Report.pdf

-----

Moving on to the new renders and updated design, a new bridge at the old Bowden Station is proposed. Inclusion of this is a great move in my opinion.
Image

Image

Here are cross sections of the bridges:
Image

And finally, here are some new renders of the station. To be honest, I'm not sold on the mix of brick and concrete, it looks really bare and plain compared to something like the Adelaide Showgrounds station. It will be interesting how this will look in real life. The canopy on Gibson Street also looks bland and too small.
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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#48 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:43 am

That's quite a deep trench, which is good. I'm glad there'll be provision to cover it in future.
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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#49 Post by Kasey771 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:27 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:Plus it will allow freight trains to be 20% longer than they are at the moment. That's got to be quite an efficiency saving right there. It seems like there are many benefits from this single project.
When do works commence and what's the timeline for completion? Just curious cos I'm a soccer fan and getting to Hindmarsh stadium via South Road is a no-go because of T2T.. its going to be hard to find a route to the stadium by car avoiding roadworks:(
Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#50 Post by Goodsy » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:01 pm

Kasey771 wrote:
Llessur2002 wrote:Plus it will allow freight trains to be 20% longer than they are at the moment. That's got to be quite an efficiency saving right there. It seems like there are many benefits from this single project.
When do works commence and what's the timeline for completion? Just curious cos I'm a soccer fan and getting to Hindmarsh stadium via South Road is a no-go because of T2T.. its going to be hard to find a route to the stadium by car avoiding roadworks:(

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#51 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:01 am

Looks like some sort of works were being undertaken this morning where the OH line branches off from the other lines - nothing too major, just an excavator and a few people milling around.

Also, out of the corner of my eye I saw Channel 7 news mention something about the Torrens Junction project but didn't get there in time to catch any of the content. Think it was Sunday eve. Anyone catch the story?

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#52 Post by Norman » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:13 am

Laing O’Rourke, AECOM and Kellogg, Brown & Root have been chosen to work on the project.

http://www.premier.sa.gov.au/index.php/ ... n-adelaide

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#53 Post by AG » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:31 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:Looks like some sort of works were being undertaken this morning where the OH line branches off from the other lines - nothing too major, just an excavator and a few people milling around.
I suspect that would be geotechnical investigations going on in order to provide input for detailed design.

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#54 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:17 pm

AG wrote:I suspect that would be geotechnical investigations going on in order to provide input for detailed design.
Trench looked very long though, too long for a trial pit imo. It could well be but I also I wonder whether it's something to do with services or signalling? Either way it's good to see something happening - I like progress, however small.

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#55 Post by I Follow PAFC » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:59 pm

During this rail closure, we will take the opportunity to undertake additional maintenance works on the lines including:
Early works for Torrens Rail Junction.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... ne-closure
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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#56 Post by Joelmark » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:12 pm

Whilst I applaud all the progress in SA public transport infrastructure over the past 14 years and the soon to start Torrens Junction underpass will present a big improvement to the public realm, it appears to me that a couple of opportunities appear have been missed. On the concept plans North Adelaide railway station is barely present - yet this station will actually be closer to some of the residents of the new Bowden Village than Bowden station itself - and the Gawler line will be electrified up to Salisbury from July next year. Surely this would be a good opportunity to integrate part of the Bowden Village with clear pedestrian links to an upgraded North Adelaide station, which will be serviced by clean electric trains taking only a few minutes to reach Adelaide central?

Also, although I know a future corridor has been preserved, surely it would make sense to integrate a new tram terminus into the new Bowden station now, so that passengers can transfer directly from the Outer Harbor line to tram destinations including Bonython Park, the new hospital, etc? With the present plans it will be a 250 metre or so "unconnected" walk between Bowden station and the Entertainment Centre Tram terminus.

Apart from the above though, the entire project presents a huge step forward :)

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#57 Post by Nathan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:11 pm

Not will, is closer to all residents in stage one. There is a path underneath the Park Tce overpass that can be used to access the station, although the crossing over the ARTC line is at the southern end of the platform. The fencing is absolutely shit, but it's apparently 100% ARTC's responsibility (Renewal SA and council have tried to force improvements - which only resulted in some shitty patchwork where there were actual holes).

At some point, the crossing is expected to be upgraded to an active crossing. Separately, once Torrens Junction is complete, the unsignalised ped crossing over Park Tce between Forth and Fifth St will be signalised, which will improve access. No station upgrades are planned as far as I know.

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#58 Post by rubberman » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:20 pm

Joelmark wrote:Whilst I applaud all the progress in SA public transport infrastructure over the past 14 years and the soon to start Torrens Junction underpass will present a big improvement to the public realm, it appears to me that a couple of opportunities appear have been missed. On the concept plans North Adelaide railway station is barely present - yet this station will actually be closer to some of the residents of the new Bowden Village than Bowden station itself - and the Gawler line will be electrified up to Salisbury from July next year. Surely this would be a good opportunity to integrate part of the Bowden Village with clear pedestrian links to an upgraded North Adelaide station, which will be serviced by clean electric trains taking only a few minutes to reach Adelaide central?

Also, although I know a future corridor has been preserved, surely it would make sense to integrate a new tram terminus into the new Bowden station now, so that passengers can transfer directly from the Outer Harbor line to tram destinations including Bonython Park, the new hospital, etc? With the present plans it will be a 250 metre or so "unconnected" walk between Bowden station and the Entertainment Centre Tram terminus.

Apart from the above though, the entire project presents a huge step forward :)
Some thoughts about this.

As you say, North Adelaide Station is close to the Bowden/Brompton redevelopment. So they will have eventually, Bowden Station, plus North Adelaide, plus Port Road buses plus trams within walking distance on Port Road. So, if they want a tram service going closer, I'd be asking the developer to contribute.

Then there's the question of how an extension off the Port Road would integrate with the rest of the tram extension. For example, given the trenching and lots of money being spent on this project, I'm not seeing how the Port line would be converted to a tram line in the forseeable future. Trams can operate with much steeper grades, so if there was a plan to tramify the Port line, the excavations with this project would be a whole lot less because trams could duck down and back up much closer to the end points. So, why spend money on heavy rail grades unless it was decided to keep heavy rail?

In that case as well, whether a Bowden tram stop would make sense would depend on where the trams actually got extended to from the Entercentre. Dunno... :mrgreen:

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#59 Post by rev » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:53 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
AG wrote:I suspect that would be geotechnical investigations going on in order to provide input for detailed design.
Trench looked very long though, too long for a trial pit imo. It could well be but I also I wonder whether it's something to do with services or signalling? Either way it's good to see something happening - I like progress, however small.
You're not talking about that area that was excavated on the side park tce near the train crossing?

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[COM] Re: Torrens Junction Underpass

#60 Post by Nathan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:42 am

rubberman wrote:So, if they want a tram service going closer, I'd be asking the developer to contribute.
So just shifting money between government departments?

Each lot in Bowden goes out to different developers, with Renewal SA managing the whole development area. It's not like other large developments where the whole thing goes out to a single developer.

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