SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East End

[SouthAussie94]

Hutt Street would also present issues with the Clipsal.. I think any tram heading south from North Terrace would have to use Frome Street, with any extension along North Terrace to the east of Frome likely to form the beginnings of the Norwood line.

I got a little carried away from here, everything below is obviously speculation and nothing more. Mods, feel free to edit my post and move it to the visions topic so that this thread isn't derailed too badly..

A Frome Street tramline could also tie into a North Adelaide tram route. From North Terrace, onto Frome Rd, with another stop servicing the old RAH (connecting the site to both the Norwood line and the city loop). Another stop could service the Zoo. Continue along Frome with another stop at the Womens and Childrens Hospital.

The route could then continue right onto Melbourne St, left onto Jerningham St, left onto Kingston Terrace, right onto Lefevre, left onto Tynte, crossing O'Connell St, continuing to Wellington Sq before right onto Jeffcott St.

This route would mean most of North Adelaide would be within walking distance of the tram line. O'Connell St would be left free from the tram meaning that the effect on traffic and parking is minimal.

Obvious drawbacks to this route would be than any continuation of this route to Prospect would wind through North Adelaide before reaching the city. This would lengthen the commuting time possibly discouraging people from using the route. Also, Adelaide Oval isn't really serviced by this route at all. The deviation along Melbourne St could be removed to speed things up.

As I said, nothing more than speculation on my part. Once again, Mods feel free to edit/remove this as you see fit.

[Waewick]

I did forget about Clipsal. Makes it hard for the loop to incorporate Hutt St and even get to South terrace.

[Nathan]

Why let Clipsal dictate the route? Just terminate services through that section for 4 days, like they do with the current line when events like the Christmas Pageant are on.

Not sure how you'd make Frome St work with trams and the separated bike lane.

[SouthAussie94]

Why let Clipsal dictate the route? Just terminate services through that section for 4 days, like they do with the current line when events like the Christmas Pageant are on.

Not sure how you'd make Frome St work with trams and the separated bike lane.

Clipsal would dictate the route because of the tram tracks themselves. Race cars and tram dont go too well together. Temporary removal of the tracks would also likely cause issues. Freshly laid bitumen and race cars also don't go too well together..

Also, any closure would be longer than the duration of Clipsal itself. As it stands now, Hutt Street closes on the Monday prior to Clipsal, opening on the Monday following. Would 8 days of closures be palatable?

The bike lanes down Frome St were not something that I considered when I proposed it as a potential route..

[Waewick]

this is all thoeretical, but could you just have the tram going where the cars don't but still allow it to run through he broader site ?

wouldn't it also be awesome to have a temporary tram stop witin the circuit for race days.

[SouthAussie94]

this is all thoeretical, but could you just have the tram going where the cars don't but still allow it to run through he broader site ?

wouldn't it also be awesome to have a temporary tram stop witin the circuit for race days.

The circuit uses basically the entire width of Hutt St between Flinders and Pirie St. The south bound lane is the circuit proper, the median strip forms the kerbing for the corner and the north bound lane forms the run off area.

Add in the walls and the 1-2m exclusion zone adjacent to the wall for race marshalls and there is no way two tram lines could pass through that section of Hutt St whilst the circuit is set up.

Hypothetically, if you could somehow run two tram lines through this area (lets say on the far western side of the corridor, the circuit proper uses the far eastern side), the tram would need to cross both Pirie and Flinders Streets.

The circuit uses the entire Pirie/Hutt/Bartels/East intersection as it stands now, with a grandstand occupying the southern end of Pirie. Two tram lines running through this area would mean the circuit would need to be narrowed in this area. The stand would either need to be moved west along Pirie to facilitate the tram in front of the stand, or would need to be removed entirely.

A tram through this area would need to cross Flinders Street and would cause larger issues. Flinders St to the west of Hutt St is used as run off area for the circuit, with this extending 50m to the west of the Hutt St intersection. Trams running along the far western side of Hutt St would mean that this run off area would need to be removed. Cars would now be arriving in this area at 120km/h with nothing but solid concrete ahead. Theres no chance at all of this being feasible from a safety standpoint.

Trams running along this section of Hutt St simply would not be possible during Clipsal.

Although catching the tram to the circuit would be super convenient!

[Goodsy]

this is all thoeretical, but could you just have the tram going where the cars don't but still allow it to run through he broader site ?

wouldn't it also be awesome to have a temporary tram stop witin the circuit for race days.

The circuit uses basically the entire width of Hutt St between Flinders and Pirie St. The south bound lane is the circuit proper, the median strip forms the kerbing for the corner and the north bound lane forms the run off area.

Add in the walls and the 1-2m exclusion zone adjacent to the wall for race marshalls and there is no way two tram lines could pass through that section of Hutt St whilst the circuit is set up.

Hypothetically, if you could somehow run two tram lines through this area (lets say on the far western side of the corridor, the circuit proper uses the far eastern side), the tram would need to cross both Pirie and Flinders Streets.

The circuit uses the entire Pirie/Hutt/Bartels/East intersection as it stands now, with a grandstand occupying the southern end of Pirie. Two tram lines running through this area would mean the circuit would need to be narrowed in this area. The stand would either need to be moved west along Pirie to facilitate the tram in front of the stand, or would need to be removed entirely.

A tram through this area would need to cross Flinders Street and would cause larger issues. Flinders St to the west of Hutt St is used as run off area for the circuit, with this extending 50m to the west of the Hutt St intersection. Trams running along the far western side of Hutt St would mean that this run off area would need to be removed. Cars would now be arriving in this area at 120km/h with nothing but solid concrete ahead. Theres no chance at all of this being feasible from a safety standpoint.

Trams running along this section of Hutt St simply would not be possible during Clipsal.

Although catching the tram to the circuit would be super convenient!

Would it be wrong of me to suggest running the tram underground? Portal at the east end of North Terrace, then turn south and pop back up somewhere along Hutt Street south of Wakefield Street

[Westside]

this is all thoeretical, but could you just have the tram going where the cars don't but still allow it to run through he broader site ?

wouldn't it also be awesome to have a temporary tram stop witin the circuit for race days.

The circuit uses basically the entire width of Hutt St between Flinders and Pirie St. The south bound lane is the circuit proper, the median strip forms the kerbing for the corner and the north bound lane forms the run off area.

Add in the walls and the 1-2m exclusion zone adjacent to the wall for race marshalls and there is no way two tram lines could pass through that section of Hutt St whilst the circuit is set up.

Hypothetically, if you could somehow run two tram lines through this area (lets say on the far western side of the corridor, the circuit proper uses the far eastern side), the tram would need to cross both Pirie and Flinders Streets.

The circuit uses the entire Pirie/Hutt/Bartels/East intersection as it stands now, with a grandstand occupying the southern end of Pirie. Two tram lines running through this area would mean the circuit would need to be narrowed in this area. The stand would either need to be moved west along Pirie to facilitate the tram in front of the stand, or would need to be removed entirely.

A tram through this area would need to cross Flinders Street and would cause larger issues. Flinders St to the west of Hutt St is used as run off area for the circuit, with this extending 50m to the west of the Hutt St intersection. Trams running along the far western side of Hutt St would mean that this run off area would need to be removed. Cars would now be arriving in this area at 120km/h with nothing but solid concrete ahead. Theres no chance at all of this being feasible from a safety standpoint.

Trams running along this section of Hutt St simply would not be possible during Clipsal.

Although catching the tram to the circuit would be super convenient!

Would it be wrong of me to suggest running the tram underground? Portal at the east end of North Terrace, then turn south and pop back up somewhere along Hutt Street south of Wakefield Street

Yes

[Westside]

Seriously, why are we letting a one-week-a-year event dictate any transport policy/plans in this city? There are plenty of options for the, let's say 2-3 weeks a year a tram and a car race would effect each other.

1. Trams terminate either side, lay temporary bitumen over the tracks (worked for Tour down under along Jetty Rd)
2. God forbid, adjust the Clipsal track - it can use East Tce between Pirie and Flinders instead.

Any other suggestions?

[rubberman]

Seriously, why are we letting a one-week-a-year event dictate any transport policy/plans in this city? There are plenty of options for the, let's say 2-3 weeks a year a tram and a car race would effect each other.

1. Trams terminate either side, lay temporary bitumen over the tracks (worked for Tour down under along Jetty Rd)
2. God forbid, adjust the Clipsal track - it can use East Tce between Pirie and Flinders instead.

Any other suggestions?

Depends on whether the tram tracks will be tram-only like down King Bill St and Port Road. If that were the case, there's no logical problem with running the two tram tracks side by side on the west side of East Terrace/Hutt St. In this scenario, cars would run on the East side with two lanes, and trams on the West side two lanes. They would take up exactly the same road space, but in a different configuration.

The advantage would be that the East side would have the bitumen preserved for the Clipsal. Also, I would envisage the bike lane on the West side of the tram tracks, between the tram track and the kerb, with Vienna type tram stops, but for bikes. No opening car doors, or vehicles veering into the bike lane to worry about. Thus, also, the Kerb/footpath would be the tram stop locations for the Northbound trams. Saving a bit more space over traditional designs.

It would therefore end up as:(From West to East) Footpath, bike lane, two tram lanes, two car lanes, footpath.
Compared to traditional: (West-East) Footpath, bike lane, car lane, two tram lanes, car lane, footpath.

[medo]

There is one element which should be considered during laying tram tracks across KW&NT intersection and that is laying rails/switches toward North Adelaide to avoid wasting money in the future.

Medo

[Algernon]

A tram through North Adelaide to service Prospect Rd would be good. But a tram just to loop in to North Adelaide? How many people live there, 500? I don't give a rat's how important the old adelaide money thinks it is. If you run trams down Prospect Rd, Henely Beach Rd, The Parade..... it serves a need greater than an old adelaide family's need to have a more valuable house than everyone else.

[fishinajar]

Frome stops before South Terrace. To me the loop wants to be able to spur out to the burbs.

You still could. Either from Pulteney, or Carrington/Hallifax to Hutt. Just would be less of a pretty straight line. Still less severe than the likely North Terrace to Morphett via West Terrace.

[Norman]

As far as I remember, the city loop will go down Halifax Street anyway, so the Unley line could be going off Halifax into Pulteny.

[rubberman]

The DPTI texta plan shows the city loop going down Frome, and the Unley Rd line coming off Pulteney St. Pending the feasibility study, and funding, and whatever the NIMBYs throw at it.

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/itlup/new_tram_network