COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[AG]

Let's be realistic. People are more likely to voice their opinion if they feel strongly opposed to something rather than if they strongly support something. These days people look at the negatives more than the positives.

[Al]

I hardly call 447 sms a true indication of the opinion people have on this issue. It's just incredible that there are some people out there who only see things in pure dollars and cents. The tram may not the best thing to spend $21mil on but it will certainly make Adelaide more interesting. Whenever I'm down at Glenelg, I always notice the trams as they come and go - not something that I can say about the boring buses on King William.

By the same argument, perhaps the new airport wasn't necessary - we could've just added undercover walkways out to the jets and then spend the savings on roads! Why have flag poles down King William Street? Why have the fountain in Vic Square? With all the savings, we could have the best roads, health, police etc but it'll be a f**king boring place.

[Algernon]

I'll laugh if this becomes an election issue.

[Howie]

I've emailed the CCC... hopefully some of you throw your support behind this project and not let it be derailed by certain highly vocal groups.

RE: Tram line Extension.

To the members of the Capital City Committee,

I would like to commend those involved in the decision to extend the Glenelg Tramline through to North Terrace. I would just like to give you my support in light of all the negative comments so unfortunately posted in the Advertiser newspaper by certain reporters.

I congrate all of you for your foresight in turning Adelaide from Australia's backwater into a benchmark for other cities to follow.

In a recent poll conducted on http://www.sensational-adelaide.com, 91% of voters were IN FAVOUR of the tram line extension, and most were in favour of having the line extended to North Adelaide and through to the west and northern suburbs. Mind you many members of s-a.com are North Adelaide and Adelaide CBD residents.

Once again, keep doing what you're doing.

Cheers

Howie

[Howie]

This is pretty good news.... a bold plan to extend the tram line down north terrace and through to the Port.



Also they've got another poll on the Tiser today... make sure if you support this proposal to vote. I'm putting mine in.

[AG]

Now this is the part of the expansion I don't agree with completely. Reasons why:
-Outer Harbor Line is the third most patronised route on the suburban rail system
-Spending hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade the existing lines for a slower service is more of a downgrade than an upgrade
-Electrifying the rail network as heavy rail wouldn't require demolishing and rebuilding platforms, converting gauge, would give quicker services than as of current and would give just as much opportunity for urban renewal (as seen in Perth in suburbs such as Subiaco)

With the Grange line, I think it may be suitable for light rail, but if this becomes the case, it should run along Port Road, and should also be expanded to West Lakes (or redirect the current Grange line to West Lakes to interchange with the tram line).

[Howie]

I'm not too sure. I personally am in favour of light rail versus heavy rail.

It'd be practical in a city in adelaide where, the tram doesn't have to compete all too much with traffic here (i.e. we don't live in a city that's too congested) so the speed advantage of trains would be minimal. I say that because benefit heavy rail has over trams in terms of speed is that it has absolute right of way at intersections, also it would probably have fewer stops. But by the same token, tram's are more city friendly in that you don't need a platform to get on and off, and once laid, the cost of extending the tram network is significantly cheaper than laying new tracks (in that i can share infrastructure such as roads don't require tunnels etc).

Trams could also make some bus and train routes redundant. E.g. if i'm to catch a train to the city, i firstly have to board a bus to westfield arndale, then the circle line to the woodville station, then catch the grange train. All of that just to get to train station that's 1.5km away from me. If they however, had a tram running directly into westfield arndale / westfield westlakes / port adelaide city centre, imagine the patronage they'd pick up and the number of busses they could put to better use elsewhere.

I can also see Tram's fitting in with the government's green city strategy. By reducing the amount of fossil fueled combustion engines on our public transport system will lead to benefits for all of us.

Anyhow that's just my 2 cents.

[AG]

I'm not too sure. I personally am in favour of light rail versus heavy rail.

It'd be practical in a city in adelaide where, the tram doesn't have to compete all too much with traffic here (i.e. we don't live in a city that's too congested) so the speed advantage of trains would be minimal. I say that because benefit heavy rail has over trams in terms of speed is that it has absolute right of way at intersections, also it would probably have fewer stops. But by the same token, tram's are more city friendly in that you don't need a platform to get on and off, and once laid, the cost of extending the tram network is significantly cheaper than laying new tracks (in that i can share infrastructure such as roads don't require tunnels etc).

Trams could also make some bus and train routes redundant. E.g. if i'm to catch a train to the city, i firstly have to board a bus to westfield arndale, then the circle line to the woodville station, then catch the grange train. All of that just to get to train station that's 1.5km away from me. If they however, had a tram running directly into westfield arndale / westfield westlakes / port adelaide city centre, imagine the patronage they'd pick up and the number of busses they could put to better use elsewhere.

I can also see Tram's fitting in with the government's green city strategy. By reducing the amount of fossil fueled combustion engines on our public transport system will lead to benefits for all of us.

Anyhow that's just my 2 cents.

I agree that trams are suitable for Adelaide, due to the flat terrain and minimal congestion that they'd have to deal with. The trams would probably be a bit slower than the current fleet of diesel railcars, but significantly slower than electric trains as their acceleration and top speeds combined are better than either the trams and diesel railcars.

The trams are better off serving areas that currently operate on routes served by buses once every 10 minutes interpeak in the western and eastern suburbs rather than areas that are already served by rail.

Even though the trams run on electricity, they aren't completely green since much of the electricity being supplied is from coal power plants.

If the government decides to operate the trams down the existing Outer Harbor Line, then there's going to be quite a few functional issues to sort out in the first few kilometres. If it would be joined to the existing rail lines just west of the railway station, it would have to cross over the existing Noarlunga and Belair lines, plus it would have to cross the interstate standard gauge line near North Adelaide.

[Howie]

I do see your point. But there will definately be a need in 10-15 years for an electrified rail system of some sort... be it light rail or electrified heavy rail, we can't continue to rely on fossil fuels forever.

And yes, you're right, to think that this is a completely green solution would be naive. We still get most of our electricity through fossil fuels, but advancements of late are heading us towards the direction of solar power/wind power/hydro electricity/led lighting.. what's happened in these areas over the last few years has been nothing short of amazing. (E.g. what california has done with a Solar Stirling Engines ). At least our rail network will be ready for it, when it happens.

Have a read of what's happened in Perth.. and what they have planned. I commend them for having the foresight all those years ago.
http://www.sustainability.dpc.wa.gov.au ... hsRail.pdf

[AtD]

I'd have to agree with AG on this one. Although it's nice that the government is taking an interest in these issues, jumping on the light rail bandwagon isn't going to be helpful. The current trains can carry about 550 seated passengers in a 5 car configeration (longest most platforms will allow). That's about 7 articulated busses.

I'd like to see heavy rail diverted to West Lakes. It could easily deal with footy crowds. If they upgrade the stations, they could lengthen the platforms and thus have longer trains. Could you imagine 1,000 screaming fans in one train?

[greenchilli]

do keep in mind the land that the train tracks are on on the outer harbor line could easily accomodate 4 tracks of tramways. 2 Standard Service Tracks, 2 Express Tracks.

[Will]

I'll laugh if this becomes an election issue.

It is, the liberals are against the tram extension.

I find the liberals approach to this issue childish, and just oppossing a good project for the sake of oppossing the government. What makes this the more ridiculous is that when Kerin, Olsen and Brown were in governemnt their government actually supported the idea of extending the tram line. I have a letter from Premier Olsen in my possession making such a statement.

[Will]

I support the government's idea of extending the light rail service to Port Adelaide in principle. Because I am against transforming the current rail tracks to accomodate trams. I would be a much better idea and probably cost the same to send the trams down the middle of Port Road. Port Road has an unnusually large median strip, plus the tram could stimulate the suburbs around Port Road which currently look tired and derelict.

[sam]

Port Road has an unnusually large median strip

IIRC the reason is because there was once an idea (edit: many years ago) to have a canal that went into the city so that boats could come all the way in!

[greenchilli]

its a pity that never happened. you could connect that with the torrens, have another stormwater drain (divert floodwaters down 2 paths, pt rd & torrens river) could also be a tourist magnet, from city to port canaL!