News & Discussion: Other Transport Projects

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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mattblack
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#331 Post by mattblack » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:59 am

["Ho Really"]
If Government goes ahead with increased density in the east and west (and even north and south) they will need to have public transport down to a tee.
Thats one of the reasons they are putting in bus lanes.
You still need one or two thoroughfares strategically positioned.
Why, if you have a viable ring road (agreed that this does need some work)
Penalising people because they want to use their car is going against their Human Rights, and yes I will go as far as saying that.
This is a joke, but by that rationale are you infringing on peoples 'human rights' who live in the city by polluting the air and congesting the streets in which they live because you don't want to change your behaviour?
As every city is different, you cannot compare Adelaide with Vancouver, Portland (Oregon), Bilbao, etc...
Yes you can compare Adelaide with other cities, thats how you get worlds best practice. We dont need to reinvent the wheel if policy has already be proven to work elsewhere. I agree that every city is different so you cant use a 'copy and paste' mentallity but you can use more of a mix and match approach.
Adelaide has been planned with several wide boulevards for a good reason.


Its not so people like you can drive more easily from the western suburbs to the eastern suburbs, or from north to south. It 1. Adelaide plains was ideal to survey as a grid because of it is basically dead flat. 2. Boulevards was for the movement of goods by bullock train. The wide boulevards allowed these bullock trains to make u-turns if needed without having to unhitch the carts. 3. Standard chain measures were used in the layout of the streets in the CBD because it was easy, uniform and importantly quick because Light had a very short time to get this done before the first settlers arrived.
Look at Paris. Will they choke the Champs Elysee? .
It is choked ............. with traffic

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#332 Post by rubberman » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:01 am

Ho,

I agree that putting the horse in front of the cart is not the right way of doing things.

So for me, the first thing to do is we need to understand who gets priority under the present rules. Otherwise, if we say we want X, but someone else has the right to say 'No way!', then saying we want X is just a waste of time unless we deal with the rights of those people who can say 'No way!'.

In this situation, the ratepayers of the City of Adelaide have the right to veto what you have in mind. Cold dead stop. If the ratepayers of the City of Adelaide want to put culs de sac in strategic places to frustrate you, they can, and legally, and morally because it is their city for which they pay rates and you do not. They can say, 'go round the city via the ring route, and leave us alone'. Simple as, and you do not have any means to do anything about it. So you have to deal with their concerns, get them on side with whatever are their issues, negotiate, compromise. Otherwise you get nix. Zero. Zip. If you try putting up proposals before you have dealt with this, you are just going to end up with a high blood pressure, and no good outcome. That is your choice - negotiate or get stress ulcers. Up to you.

So, no point in worrying about what the streets might do, or can do, until you can be sure that the city ratepayers are in agreement with what you want to do. At the moment, they either don't want you to be there at all (the residents don't care one bit about people coming in, you are not on their radar), or just want you to come in to shop (the business people). None of the ratepayer groups, business or residential is the least bit interested in people transiting through the city. Period. That they have the muscle to enforce this is shown in the North Adelaide road closures that made it harder to get to North Adelaide.

Furthermore, the more traffic coming into the city, the more the businesses and residents will get together to try to restrict traffic that does not terminate in the city for either residential or business purposes. They have the muscle to do it.

So, whatever, you think is a good thing in this situation, before you propose anything, you need to understand whether or not it is something that can get past the business and residential ratepayers of the City of Adelaide.

As I said before, if we do not do something now, it is just going to be more painful in the future. Most likely for those wanting to transit the city, since they are not ratepayers. (Not to mention the issue of Adelaide as a swinging seat).

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#333 Post by Maximus » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:32 pm

mattblack wrote:
Ho Really wrote: You still need one or two thoroughfares strategically positioned.
Why, if you have a viable ring road (agreed that this does need some work)
Aside from public transport, this, for me, is the key issue. The ring route in its current guise has potential, but it needs a lot of work to be a serious and viable alternative to crossing through the square mile. When they fix it up, they can put as many car-deterring measures in the CBD as they like. But until then, I think we need to keep at least one N-S and E-W corridor through the CBD as unimpeded as possible.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#334 Post by claybro » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:43 pm

[quote="Ho Really"]Look at Paris. Will they choke the Champs Elysee? Think about it.

Cheers[/quote]

Paris is quite possibly one of the worst examples of traffic management. It is a nightmare.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#335 Post by jk1237 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:48 pm

Ho Really wrote:Penalising people because they want to use their car is going against their Human Rights, and yes I will go as far as saying that.
I am stunned at this post.

Why cant some of these petrol brain right winged nut jobs realise we are not prohibiting people from driving, we are simply trying to reduce this over the top car dependency we have in this city, in line with nearly every other western city throughout the world is trying to do. If you are so that lazy or are so scared over human contact when using PT, then you need to pay a premium for your "right" of driving and congesting other peoples neighbourhoods

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#336 Post by Will » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:02 pm

jk1237 wrote:
Ho Really wrote:Penalising people because they want to use their car is going against their Human Rights, and yes I will go as far as saying that.
I am stunned at this post.

Why cant some of these petrol brain right winged nut jobs realise we are not prohibiting people from driving, we are simply trying to reduce this over the top car dependency we have in this city, in line with nearly every other western city throughout the world is trying to do. If you are so that lazy or are so scared over human contact when using PT, then you need to pay a premium for your "right" of driving and congesting other peoples neighbourhoods
I am not going to go so far and claim that driving is a human right, however I reject the notion that people who drive are lazy.

I am a busy person, and there are times when public transport does not meet my requirements. We can't make it harder for people to get around, without providing a viable alternative. At the moment it would be cruel to make it difficult for people to use their cars with the state of our public transport, which is expensive, unreliable and infrequent.

Furthermore, I am intrigued with your statement that motorists should pay a premium to use their cars. What do you mean by this?

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#337 Post by jk1237 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:16 am

Will wrote: I am a busy person, and there are times when public transport does not meet my requirements.
That is true, but there are times when public transport does meet peoples requirements but for incredibly lazy, psycological reasons there are many people that can not fathom that its even possible to leave your house other than in a car, even when PT is more practical. I work in the city and more co-workers now drive to work than take PT in my office floor, there are some that rake up atleast 1-2 $40 parking fines per fortnight but still refuse to take PT because of "yeah like totally whatevaaaaaaaa" reaons like i dont like PT and I wouldnt be seen dead on a bus. They without doubt complain each day they are running late because of the "traffic". Their 1 or 2 parking fines per week/fortnight sometimes works out cheaper than parking in a multi-storey carpark even though we also have cheap daily parking in Adelaide. Our cheap city centre car parking contributes to this brain dead American mindset that PT is evil and only for losers as it completely discourages PT further as there is no monetary incentive to use it compared to other cities with high car parking costs, which incidently have very vibrant, fast growing CBD's without everyone driving in. There are many times when the car makes sense over PT for cross suburban trips, but there are few excuses for city centre office workers. I get emails every hour at work from colleagues that send to everyone warning that the parking inspector is out so to remind people to go out and shift their car. WTF. Adelaide is not a large country town as people say, we are a city but a huge % of Adelaideans act, think and behave like they do live in a large country town. Its a major mindset problem.

A premium example that motorists must pay is the proposed CBD parking tax for 2014 that our idiotic newspaper The Advertiser this week made a sensationalised story where aparently 86% of newsltd readers oppose such a "crazy" tax, even though if applied we would still have significantly cheaper parking than other cities.

and our PT system right now is not that bad but its a condition around the world that everyone complains about their own cities PT system when they hardly even use it

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#338 Post by Wayno » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:52 am

jk1237 wrote:...psycological reasons there are many people that can not fathom that its even possible to leave your house other than in a car.
yep - nail on the head. My wife is an educated & intelligent lass. She was in the city one morning last week and had plans to meet a friend at Jetty Rd Glenelg for lunch. We have one car which i needed (for a bunch of odd suburban errands) and the notion of catching a tram was abhorrent to her, even though her friend offered to drop her home. Lunch was cancelled. :?

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#339 Post by monotonehell » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:56 pm

Wayno wrote:
jk1237 wrote:...psycological reasons there are many people that can not fathom that its even possible to leave your house other than in a car.
yep - nail on the head. My wife is an educated & intelligent lass. She was in the city one morning last week and had plans to meet a friend at Jetty Rd Glenelg for lunch. We have one car which i needed (for a bunch of odd suburban errands) and the notion of catching a tram was abhorrent to her, even though her friend offered to drop her home. Lunch was cancelled. :?

</this post will self-destruct in 2 days to ensure my marriage survives>
</post held at ransom in a quote until mono can work out what Wayno has that he can extort from him>

Both sides to this argument are true to some extent. I was in the city this morning helping a friend with a passport application before work. My work is on Greehill road, he offered to drive me there so I "wouldn't be late." It didn't occur to him that walking over to the tram, catching that to Greenhill road would be about 15 minutes shorter than walking back to his car and driving there. How many people take their car to the local shops for milk, when it's a 5 minute walk? People like their personal space and most prefer being stuck in traffic than stuck on a bus. But this needs to change for those commuting to and from the city everyday just for work. Remember when fuel prices rose a while ago? The buses were filled to the roof with people.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#340 Post by rhino » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Maximus wrote: The ring route in its current guise has potential
I disagree, to a point. It has potential if you happen to be travelling from north to south or vice vresa, but if you happen to be travelling east-west or return, the ring route is a long detour, going around North Adelaide as it does. I believe one major through-road through the city is quite acceptable, and I think that Grote/Wakefield is the correct choice for it. The other option would be North Terrace, but as Grote/Wakefield is not really near the shopping or cultural area, it is less likely to be a destination in itself than North Terrace, and therefore not get as clogged up.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#341 Post by Maximus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:58 pm

rhino wrote:
Maximus wrote: The ring route in its current guise has potential
I disagree, to a point. It has potential if you happen to be travelling from north to south or vice versa, but if you happen to be travelling east-west or return, the ring route is a long detour, going around North Adelaide as it does. I believe one major through-road through the city is quite acceptable, and I think that Grote/Wakefield is the correct choice for it. The other option would be North Terrace, but as Grote/Wakefield is not really near the shopping or cultural area, it is less likely to be a destination in itself than North Terrace, and therefore not get as clogged up.
Yes, very true. But I suspect if the ring route was upgraded (say, fewer traffic lights, more clearways, and maybe even a higher speed limit) then using it E-W would probably not be much of a diversion time-wise, even if it were still a long detour in terms of distance. At least until then, though, I agree that Grote/Wakefield makes the most sense as a designated corridor for crossing the CBD in that direction.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#342 Post by Wayno » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:57 pm

apologies if there's a better thread for this post.

Traffic light tips for cyclists

click this link to see the associated pikkies: http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport% ... r+cyclists
Cyclist push buttons
Cyclist push buttons operate in the same way as pedestrian push buttons and are often installed next to the kerb or on traffic signal islands.

Pushing these buttons will register your presence and prompt the signals to turn green allowing you to enter the intersection legally.

There are more than 230 intersections with cyclist push buttons in Adelaide.

Bicycle lane metal detectors
Metal detectors located in the road surface behind the stop line of a bicycle lane can detect cyclists.

The detector is activated by any conductive material such as aluminium, steel or titanium. One or more of these materials are detectable in almost all bicycle wheels.

Make sure you position your bicycle in the middle of the bicycle lane just behind the stop line so a detector can register your presence.

Bicycle lane detectors loops are located at nine intersections in Adelaide. When a cyclist is detected by either a cyclist push button or a bicycle-lane metal detector, the green signal is activated longer than for a motor vehicle so cyclists have more time to safely proceed through the intersection.

Metal detectors in vehicle lanes
Intersections without cyclist push buttons or cycle detectors can register the presence of bicycles using motor vehicle metal detectors.

Position your bicycle in the middle of the lane - preferably on the centre wire which is the most sensitive part of the detector - and remain there until the green signal appears.

Moving off the detector will cancel a request for a green signal.

If a motor vehicle approaches you may want to move to the left side of the road to share the lane - if you do this ensure that you leave enough room so the motor vehicle stops over the detector.

A signal change activated by the vehicle will give you the same amount of time as motor vehicles to cross the intersection.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#343 Post by AG » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:05 pm

One of the funny things I see often is people repetitively pressing the pedestrian call button while waiting to cross. Pressing the button once registers a call to the computer that someone is waiting to cross. Pressing it multiple times does nothing to speed up how quickly the lights change because it is subject to where the signalling sequence is up to and whether the computer believes that is traffic coming from neighbouring intersections - also the same reason why the lights seem to stay red for ages on some approaches.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#344 Post by monotonehell » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm

AG wrote:One of the funny things I see often is people repetitively pressing the pedestrian call button while waiting to cross. Pressing the button once registers a call to the computer that someone is waiting to cross. Pressing it multiple times does nothing to speed up how quickly the lights change because it is subject to where the signalling sequence is up to and whether the computer believes that is traffic coming from neighbouring intersections - also the same reason why the lights seem to stay red for ages on some approaches.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#345 Post by Wayno » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:53 pm

monotonehell wrote:Try living above an intersection. All I hear all day is, "PUMPA PUMPA PUMPA PUMPA."
Lol. Are you sure it's not noise from the nearby gym or brothel? :lol:
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