COM: Port Stanvac Desalination Plant | 100gL | $1.8b

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stelaras
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#16 Post by stelaras » Thu May 17, 2007 7:58 am

restrictions would still appy Watering your lawn is a complete waste of water. Along with De-Sal plants it should be mandatory that all home install a recycling system for their lawns and toilets and pot plants....The councils can use reclaimed water for government gardens and De-Sal water can be pumped to our catchment areas to boost the levels of them.


Further a 1% salinity level increase may not sound much. but for the sea flora and fauna it could be devastating.

Having said that though, the argument is how much more devastating is it compared to the numerous boats, cruisers, container ships and people's sewage that pollutes those waters??

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#17 Post by shuza » Thu May 17, 2007 9:38 am

I heard Perth is planning to build another de-sal plant.
The Goverment needs to pull its act together quickly if it wants to help solve our water crisis (how ironic, given our dams are more than 50% capacity... you'd think that'd suffice)

Just brainstorming here, why should the salts go back into the ocean, given that it should just be dumped at the salt pans near Port Adelaide.

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#18 Post by stelaras » Thu May 17, 2007 10:25 am

When salt water is made into fresh water the yield of fresh water isnt too much. Thus, whats left from the purification process is a salt brine solution, which for economic reasons is easier to pump back into the ocean from where it is piped from rather than set up infrastructure to pump it to salt pans.

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#19 Post by Bulldozer » Mon May 21, 2007 10:26 pm

I remember Keith Martin once saying that it takes 30 years for water to cycle through the gulf. If you stop and think for even just a few seconds you realise that the change in salinity would be negligible due to the quantities involved. You should be more worried about the stormwater and sewage outflows at Christies Beach, etc. As somone said before, pre-settlement not much water washed out to sea as the western suburbs were swamps. It's the nutrient-rich runoff that's killing all the seagrass beds, etc.

Quite obviously though, Pt Stanvac is an ideal site - near the bottom end of the gulf, deepwater port, heavy industry site and close to the major reservoir for Adelaide (Happy Valley).

Nuclear desalination FTW!

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#20 Post by rhino » Tue May 22, 2007 9:37 am

Bulldozer wrote:Quite obviously though, Pt Stanvac is an ideal site - near the bottom end of the gulf, deepwater port, heavy industry site and close to the major reservoir for Adelaide (Happy Valley).

What the???
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#21 Post by stelaras » Tue May 22, 2007 10:37 am

Bulldozer wrote:You should be more worried about the stormwater and sewage outflows at Christies Beach, etc. As somone said before, pre-settlement not much water washed out to sea as the western suburbs were swamps. It's the nutrient-rich runoff that's killing all the seagrass beds, etc.
Quite true dozer! In my opinion most of the storm water runoff can be captured and pumped into our reservoirs. True the infrustructure costs would be huge but it is possible.

This would eliminate sea flora destruction and hence sea fauna destruction and would add much needed fresh water into our reservoirs.

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#22 Post by ReallyBad » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:26 pm

The biggest issue with Desalination plants is the amount of energy required to "clean" the water. We should be looking at alternates such as capturing Storm Water.

I remember back in my Uni days talking of Adelaide natural Aquifers holding billions of litres of water, and the suggestions being made was for every household in Adelaide to have a bore - then capturing the storm water and pumping it into the Aquifer to replenish it and filter it naturally. This water is apparently very clean and would not require any further processing to make it drinkable - however will need to be replenished other wse it will fill with sea water and then we would be stuffed forever.

Another major issue is obviuosly power supply, so another option would be to build a Nuclear Power station (which uses water) and use its power to desalinate as well as provide electricity to the grid.
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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#23 Post by Froggy » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:08 pm

With Adelaides Dam level at 62% are we still on water restrictions? It seems that we do not need a de-sal plant if we get through the worst drought in history and the dam's 62% full (probably rise again this week after rain).

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#24 Post by Pistol » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:19 pm

Our dam system is only at 62% capacity because we still pump water from the Murray. Wouldn't it be better to build a desal so we didn't have to rely on the Murray at all????
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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#25 Post by jimmy_2486 » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:50 pm

It needs to be built... i dun think the rain is enough...and what happens when we get another drought!!

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#26 Post by Bulldozer » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:52 pm

Froggy wrote:With Adelaides Dam level at 62% are we still on water restrictions? It seems that we do not need a de-sal plant if we get through the worst drought in history and the dam's 62% full (probably rise again this week after rain).
They're at that level because SA Water is still pumping from the Murray. Furthermore, Adelaide's dams only have storage for about a years usage. The Murray is almost dry as well and it will take more than a few years of above average rainfall to replenish it and all of the storages upstream of us.

We can't continue to rely on it and rainfall for our water - need I point out that Media Mike's "Waterproofing Adelaide" talkfest came about because of the recognition that average annual rainfall has been decreasing for the last couple of decades whilst demand has been increasing.

Efficiency gains can only temper demand against a growing population for so long.

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#27 Post by Bulldozer » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:43 pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/31/2020490.htm wrote:Turnbull says SA slow on water issues

The Federal Government says SA should be making more progress on solving water concerns.

The Federal Environment Minister says the State Government should be closer to solving South Australia's water concerns.

The SA Government is considering the feasibility of a desalination plant for Adelaide.

Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull believes more progress should have been made.

"With water planning you need to plan long-term, decades ahead, well that's what the Federal Government's done with the national plan for water security," he said.

"I've made a good point to Mike Rann and I've made it to Karlene Maywald ... that Adelaide must look very seriously at a substantial non climate-dependent source of water."

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#28 Post by rhino » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:55 pm

quote="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007 ... 020490.htm"]Turnbull says SA slow on water issues

"With water planning you need to plan long-term, decades ahead, well that's what the Federal Government's done with the national plan for water security," he said."[/quote]

They did this decades ago did they? Then where is the water???

I't easy to start now and in a couple of months say "We've done it", but it hasn't solved anything today. More important than a plan to save water decades from now, is one that will see us through this summer.
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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#29 Post by Will » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:48 pm

Bulldozer wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/31/2020490.htm wrote:Turnbull says SA slow on water issues

The Federal Government says SA should be making more progress on solving water concerns.

The Federal Environment Minister says the State Government should be closer to solving South Australia's water concerns.

The SA Government is considering the feasibility of a desalination plant for Adelaide.

Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull believes more progress should have been made.

"With water planning you need to plan long-term, decades ahead, well that's what the Federal Government's done with the national plan for water security," he said.

"I've made a good point to Mike Rann and I've made it to Karlene Maywald ... that Adelaide must look very seriously at a substantial non climate-dependent source of water."

Maybe the federal government should give us a share of its monster surplus?

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Re: Desalination plant for Adelaide

#30 Post by rubberman » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:14 pm

SA Water along with the Highways people and the STA (former) got rid of most of their planners in the eighties and nineties.

Which means that they are now on a learning curve that will take a few years.

Money is not really the issue if you do not have the people to actually do the planning work. No matter how much money you have, if you don't have planners, designers and constructors, you cannot have a desal plant or a dam or anything else.

In addition, environmental and other approvals take four or five years to undertake, and cannot be short cut.

Then of course you need to have someone who can do the detailed design. The last dam (Little Para) constructed in Adelaide was in the eighties, so all those who actually designed or built dams have retired. Since nobody has built a major desal plant in SA, then there is nobody here with that experience either. So to train people up and then build the plant might take another three or four years.

Of course then you have to actually build the thing - say three years.

So planning + approval + detailed design + construction + 2 + 4 + 3 + 3 = 12 Years

Ah well, you say. Get someone from interstate. Sorry folks, the NT, WA and Qld mining and utilities industries have already stolen a march on you and sucked the remaining skill pool dry. Which is good because SA will have to train up people locally - which takes years of course.

Have patience folks.

Oh, and that presupposes that you are actually going to make a decision to go for it NOW.

Gee wasn't the Government smart to let all those planners, design and construction engineers go in the eighties and nineties?

Let me add a few tid bits.

Stormwater is almost as bad in bacteriological quality as sewage - so major treatment required. The cost of this treatment is higher than people pay from potable water. Question is, who is going to pay a higher price for recycled water when they can get potable water cheaper?

However, if you treat seawater by desal (such as reverse osmosis) you get a waste brine stream of high salinity. You can then dilute that with stormwater to produce a stream back to the ocean with almost exactly the same salinity as seawater.

Also, if you look at desal on a long term basis, and only use it when the dams and Murray are low, then overall, its energy footprint is quite low taken over a number of years.

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