Beer Garden

[rev]

I'm sure everyone has heard by now about that Gina Reinhardt mining magnate over in WA who is flying in 1,700 foreigners to work in her mine, rather then employ more Australians.

Well apparently there is a recruiting firm over in NZ which has been contracted to also bring in 60,000 New Zealanders to work over in the WA mines too. 53,000 so far this year apparently.
FIFO rosters, where they take the money they earn back home with them basically.

Personally I find this outrageous. It is difficult enough already for Australians to get a job in the mining industry, on top of it they now have to compete with foreigners being flown in with preference to locals.
What the f*** is going on in this country?

We have a million unemployed Australians. I sure they can find enough people with the skills or who are willing to be trained up to work in the mines.

Even in our own state, up north around Prominent Hill, Carin Hill etc, they are going to need several thousand workers in the coming years. They already have the idea that if they cant find enough locals, then they will fly people in, from the Philippines no less. I cant remember which mine/company but in that general wider area up there.

I think IMX Resources or OZ Minerals, have training courses, if you are selected. But those places are limited to like 100 people. Now when you need a few thousand workers, and you are only going to train 100....well..

It's an absolute disgrace. There is no shortage of people in Australia now like there was post WW2 when the wave of immigrants from war torn Europe arrived.

Dey stole me jobs!

[rhino]

Rev, part of the deal with the foreign workers for the Roy Hill project was that workers from Australia had to be sourced first. While I agree with you that there are plenty of Australians out of work, you cannot force them to go and work out in the desert - they have to want to go. Then, they have to be skilled. The workers being brought in from overseas are skilled workers, AFAIK, not unskilled. Also, I believe they will be paid Australian wages, therefore not saving Gina R anything on wages.

With regard to training, OZ Minerals is training up local Aboriginals, but I reckon they're being subsidised the cost of that training (would like to be proven wrong). I don't know what it costs to train these guys, but I assume it would require a pledge from the trainees to stay with the company for a number of years, and not just take their skills somewhere else where the pay is better.

Interestingly, a survey was done last week, which found that the majority of Australians actually supported the import of foreign workers for skilled jobs that can't be filled by Australians.

While at first it sounds like our jobs are going overseas, ask yourself "Do I want that job? Am I prepared to have a FIFO lifestyle? Am I skilled for the job?" If you answer yes to all these, then go for it. If you can't anwer yes to all these, then remember that the company still needs workers, and don't begrudge them getting workers from wherever they can.

I'm not a fan of Gina BTW.

[Waewick]

personally I'm a fan of building towns where the jobs are, or atleast within a reasonable distance.

this should be the time to build the inhabitance of the Country over a wider area - reducing the reliance of the big cities.

how that would work is beyond me

[rhino]

There are two sides to that, too. While you, for example, might be happy to go and live up in the sticks in a new town built within a short commute of the mine you are working in, would your wife and kids want to uproot themselves from their nice house in the suburbs (or apartment in the city - whatever) to go and live in a desert community, which might have almost everything you/they need except choice (I go to Roxby Downs a lot and this is the situation there - lots of stuff but no choice - you want to go have a drink? There's the pub. Don't like that pub? Sorry, it's the only one). Would your kids want to leave their school and their social groups to go and live in the desert with little choice about who there is to mix with?

Maybe you don't have a family, and can see no problem for single guys who want to go out there, but single guys don't make a good town, they make a work camp.

Add to this the life of the mine. It has to be around long enough to warrant spending the money on building a town and attracting services there. Olympic Dam is big enough to do this, but Prominent Hill (our next biggest mine here in SA, I would guess) is not. It's projected 20-year life span can't justify building a town, so it's FIFO. The one that probably will be around for decades to come and could justify a town is Moomba, but Santos doesn't seem to want to go that way. Perhaps if the Cooper Basin oil & gas fields were just being discovered now, the SA Govt would insist on a town being built, who knows?

I am in favour of towns and communities too, but you have to understand that they aren't always viable, when air transport is so fast, reliable, and cheap.

[rev]

I'm not against new immigrants with skills being targeted specifically for certain types of jobs that need to be filled but cant locally.
What I have a problem with is that they are flying these people over here, then flying them back to New Zealand and God knows where else.
These people aren't migrating to Australia. They flying in to work, then flying back out.

60,000 people on an average 90,000 annual wage...unless my calculator is broken, that's $5.4 billion most of which is going back home with them, rather then spent in Australia.
Billions that wont be injected into the local economy, but another countries economy.

This mineral wealth is Australia's. Australian citizens and residents first and foremost should be given every opportunity to reap the benefits.

Not everyone wants to go live in the desert and live the DIDO life, or the FIFO life for that matter.

The question you should be asking is are the mining companies actually doing enough to find workers in Australia? Are they prepared to train Australians?

I have a feeling the training of Indigenous Australians is subsidized by the federal government. That should be extended to the rest of Australia too.
Even if the government provided subsidies to make it easier for people to acquire the necessary skills, like operating an excavator or other plant machinery. To do that sort of training it's not cheap, especially if you intend to work in a mine.

We are talking about tens of thousands of jobs. It would be an investment in Australia's future.
We have an industry crying out for tens of thousands of workers. We don't have tens of thousands of workers with the necessary skills.

The logical thing to do is provide training options for people.

I think you'd be very surprised by how many would take it up.

Not every unemployed person is a bludger high on drugs who doesn't want to work.

And sorry I made a mistake regarding those training positions, it wasn't 100 positions, but 10.

[metro]

While thinking about desert towns, maybe SA could do an Australian version of Vegas

[AG]

The cost of training thousands of workers is far from cheap - there's less project risk involved by bringing in already trained workers with experience to do the work than to train new people who may not necessarily stay with the company and leave. How many of would you would leave Adelaide to work in Prominent Hill or Roxby Downs if given the chance? Even if you wanted to, would family commitments or others stop you from doing so?

[Wayno]

there's much politicised debate about Roy Hill, but few facts in those same discussions - anyone surprised?

Here's a few indisputable facts:

* Peak staffing at Roy Hill will be ~8000 workers with up to 1715 being foreign workers on the same terms & conditions as locals. So less than 20% of all staff. Once the mine is constructed our overseas friends go home.
* Part of the EMA deal is to train at least as many locals as foreign workers used on the project, including a stack of apprenticeships (for young and older workers). Rhinehart has committed to training 2000 aussies who get to work on the project alongside those with experience. This training would not happen if the mine was unable to proceed in the first place.
* Hundreds of local aussies will run the mine over it's 10+ year lifespan.

So over 6000 aussies receiving jobs during construction, stacks of people getting trained, more local capability for constructing the next big project, hundreds of aussies in jobs for the subsequent decade, royaltyies, payroll tax, gst, etc flowing for the same period.

All because we recruited some temporary overseas help.

oh the humanity

[Omicron]

The cost of training thousands of workers is far from cheap - there's less project risk involved by bringing in already trained workers with experience to do the work than to train new people who may not necessarily stay with the company and leave. How many of you would leave Adelaide to work in Prominent Hill or Roxby Downs if given the chance? Even if you wanted to, would family commitments or others stop you from doing so?

Not enough.

[The Scooter Guy]

Yet another O-Bahn bus suffered an engine fire moments after exiting the busway at Hackney.

[Wayno]

A recently released Capital Waste movie on Adelaide's street art scene:

http://vimeo.com/capitalwaste/paintedwalls

Created and recreated, the long awaited documentary Painted Walls has finally been completed to the satisfaction of the hard to please but easy to be pleased by, Dom Sargent, and is about to see the light of day. A documentary on the Adelaide street art scene, this film brings together this city's premier unauthorised decorators and aerosol angels to spin a yarn about their own experiences livening up the urban savannah. Featuring all of your favourites, Ankles, Store, Peter Drew as well as some of your soon to be favourites, it is a snapshot of colour on Adelaide’s streets, and shows the best spots and best artists our fair town has to offer. Painted Walls will be screened for the very first time at the Capital Waste Website Launch at Eliza Street Tooth and Nail Art Gallery, 8th of June at 7pm, but if you are so unfortunate that you cannot make it down there Painted Walls will be up on capitalwastepictures.com with all their other films after the launch.

Capial Waste has several other Adelaide based movies on vimeo.

[The Scooter Guy]

ALL Cunninghams stores (including but not limited to Prospect & Black Forest) have gone into liquidation.
Hopefully, a new branding is soon to take over them.

[rev]

there's much politicised debate about Roy Hill, but few facts in those same discussions - anyone surprised?

Here's a few indisputable facts:

* Peak staffing at Roy Hill will be ~8000 workers with up to 1715 being foreign workers on the same terms & conditions as locals. So less than 20% of all staff. Once the mine is constructed our overseas friends go home.
* Part of the EMA deal is to train at least as many locals as foreign workers used on the project, including a stack of apprenticeships (for young and older workers). Rhinehart has committed to training 2000 aussies who get to work on the project alongside those with experience. This training would not happen if the mine was unable to proceed in the first place.
* Hundreds of local aussies will run the mine over it's 10+ year lifespan.

So over 6000 aussies receiving jobs during construction, stacks of people getting trained, more local capability for constructing the next big project, hundreds of aussies in jobs for the subsequent decade, royaltyies, payroll tax, gst, etc flowing for the same period.

All because we recruited some temporary overseas help.

oh the humanity

Oh the humanity indeed.

How about the thousands of Kiwis who are already being flown in and out of Australia? The aim is to have 50,000 Kiwis on a FIFO roster working in Australian mines.
What about the plan for to FIFO foreigners here in SA at some of our outback mines near Coober Pedy?
Why ignore that and sit on your soap box and preach the official government propaganda line?

If the skills shortage is that great, why isn't more being done to get Australians trained and skilled to do these jobs?

How many people have really had the opportunity or chance or option of getting a job in the mines, to make $100,000+ a year? Not many.
So you can't sit there and say that there aren't enough people to go and work out there.

Give people the opportunity, open up pathways for them to get into the mining industry without them having to jump through rings of fire that get smaller and smaller, and you will see just how many people will flock to the mines.
The opal industry, or whats' left of it, is already suffering in Coober Pedy because most young people who remain in the town have decided to get a better paying job in the mines nearby. Therefore, as I have been saying, if the opportunities and pathways are opened for people to get into the industry, many will take it.

You can't sit there and throw shit at people saying there aren't enough people willing to go out and work, when they are already flying in thousands of foreigners and plan to fly in thousands more.

It's a different story if these people were coming to live in Australia. But they aren't. They are on FIFO rosters.

You and others seem to imply that there aren't enough people willing to go out and work. What a crock of shit.
The mining industry is extremely difficult to get into. I know a guy who has over ten years experience operating plant machinery mainly excavators but also front end loaders, as well as experience in a dump truck.
He's been trying to get a job in the mines for over a year now. Fully licensed, ticketed, no criminal record, no drug use, been in the same job with the same mob for his entire career so a solid reliable worker.

What more does he need to do? Can you enlighten us all since you think it's so easy to just waltz into a mining company and get a job?


Anyway, more speed cameras at the train crossing on Woodville road, and a fixed camera on the side of the road on Frederick Road heading south..

[Wayno]

I know a guy who has over ten years experience operating plant machinery mainly excavators but also front end loaders, as well as experience in a dump truck.

Rev, sorry to hear your mate hasn't acquired a job. His situation is obviously contributing to your angst. I have a similar story but in the other direction - a friend of mine, known each other since kindergarten, was a backhoe operator in the resi housing industry. As of 2 years ago he started work in North West WA and is now earning very decent cash. Being unskilled from a mining industry perspective he initially took a pay cut to get his foot in the door - smart lad.

Give people the opportunity, open up pathways for them to get into the mining industry without them having to jump through rings of fire that get smaller and smaller, and you will see just how many people will flock to the mines.

My wife's family is a PHD thesis in waiting. A catholic family - 9 kids (6 boys & 3 girls). Four of them believe they should be 'given' an opportunity. They whinge that luck seems to pass them by. They say they are willing to step up but stop short of taking action. They expect 'govt & industry' to provide to them a whole raft of entitlements including high-paying employment with benefits. Contrast against the other 5 who choose to 'make & take' opportunities. The mental contrast is stark. I'm sure this is representative of the broader population.

What rings of fire are you talking about? some specific examples would help.

I'm sure we both understand why Coober Pedy folk get mining jobs. The industries are similar, and they already live in close-ish proximity to mining ventures.

As for the plan to use FIFO workers in SA - i'm guessing but probably similar to the proposed Roy Hill approach. Bring in skilled workers and in parallel train up the locals. No FIFO workers = reduced mining industry. Do you want that?

[monotonehell]

You want anecdotes? Two of my mates got into the mining industry. One was unemployed for over a year. He's a professional draftsman, but couldn't find work in Darwin. Now works in the outback mines in admin. The other managed to get onto offshore platforms, does a couple of several month tours a year. He's a laborer at the well head.