[U/C] North-South Motorway

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SBD
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4156 Post by SBD » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:24 am

Did SA complete the business cases and submit them to Infrastructure Australia as promised?

I recall talk of deep tunnels, but not sure if that needed to be part of the business case, or if it is only about how to realise a solution once the business case is accepted.

Residential development continues at both ends of the corridor, so Darlington and Northern Connector+R2P are simply providing quicker ways of getting to the traffic jam in the middle - for residents and for business.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4157 Post by claybro » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:08 pm

Spotto wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:15 am
[quote=aceman post_id=186333 time=<a href="tel:1574197715">1574197715</a> user_id=141]
can we expect any new timeline or announcements? the PM was just on saying that infrastructure projects will be brought forward.

bit of extra cash here and there it seems.

https://www.insideconstruction.com.au/i ... ing-boost/
The article makes mention of extra cash for the Darlington Interchange and Flinders rail extension specifically, it doesn’t seem to make any mention of the rest of the North-South Corridor. The rest of the funding seems to be going towards regional roads.
[/quote

If only SA had a plan for the remaining section of the N/S corridor, or the O H train corridor.. 🤔

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4158 Post by Vasco » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:19 pm

So previous to the funding announcement;

The projects were not fully funded and not on schedule for completion? (Even though Darlington was already behind schedule).


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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4159 Post by SBD » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:26 pm

Vasco wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:19 pm
So previous to the funding announcement;

The projects were not fully funded and not on schedule for completion? (Even though Darlington was already behind schedule).
It seems to be announcing that they will cover the cost over-runs. There doesn't seem to be mention of new work at Darlington/Tonsley.

I think the Horrocks Highway and Victor Harbor Road upgrades have been brought forward.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4160 Post by Norman » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm

SBD wrote:
Vasco wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:19 pm
So previous to the funding announcement;

The projects were not fully funded and not on schedule for completion? (Even though Darlington was already behind schedule).
It seems to be announcing that they will cover the cost over-runs. There doesn't seem to be mention of new work at Darlington/Tonsley.

I think the Horrocks Highway and Victor Harbor Road upgrades have been brought forward.
Correct. This government is becoming great in creating illusions that more projects are being proposed.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4161 Post by SBD » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:25 pm

Norman wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm
SBD wrote:
Vasco wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:19 pm
So previous to the funding announcement;

The projects were not fully funded and not on schedule for completion? (Even though Darlington was already behind schedule).
It seems to be announcing that they will cover the cost over-runs. There doesn't seem to be mention of new work at Darlington/Tonsley.

I think the Horrocks Highway and Victor Harbor Road upgrades have been brought forward.
Correct. This government is becoming great in creating illusions that more projects are being proposed.
The Federal government announcement was about bringing forward work that was already planned out so it could start immediately to boost the local economy. That's OK, but that half the SA money is only covering cost overruns not extending the project north from Darlington or South from T2T is disappointing. I'm not sure if DPTI has progressed either project far enough to have been able to include them. That possibly requires a decision about deep tunnel/cut and cover/trench/elevated superway before it can be brought forward.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4162 Post by aceman » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:26 pm

u guys are a lot smarter than I am and are more knowledgeable than me on this project but if i read between the lines it seems as if there isn't a plan for the remaining sections. they've probably all sat down and said okay plan a) an elevated road?? no too expensive, ok what about a tunnel? no that's too expensive as well, ok what about a lowered motorway? no too much land acquisition needed so sorry too expensive.

they've just thrown it into the too hard basket for some one else to sort out. the feds then promise funding but when?? sounds to me like it's just all talk with a press conference every few months so they can re announce what was said the previous time. they're just saying what the majority want to hear but in reality it's all just political spin.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4163 Post by SBD » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:53 pm

aceman wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:26 pm
u guys are a lot smarter than I am and are more knowledgeable than me on this project but if i read between the lines it seems as if there isn't a plan for the remaining sections. they've probably all sat down and said okay plan a) an elevated road?? no too expensive, ok what about a tunnel? no that's too expensive as well, ok what about a lowered motorway? no too much land acquisition needed so sorry too expensive.

they've just thrown it into the too hard basket for some one else to sort out. the feds then promise funding but when?? sounds to me like it's just all talk with a press conference every few months so they can re announce what was said the previous time. they're just saying what the majority want to hear but in reality it's all just political spin.
The 2015 (Labor) plan/intent had two short (cut-and-cover) tunnels under Henley Beach and Sir Donald Bradman Drive, trench the rest of the way to Anzac Highway, and "elevated road" (superway-style) between Anzac Highway and Darlington (past Castle Plaza). That plan seems to have disappeared from the Infrastructure SA website.

Liberal election promise was to finish it, and they said they would investigate a bored tunnel. I don't recall hearing an outcome of that.

Labor opposition has complained about Liberal proposals (either tunnels or anything that might be near heritage buildings). Tom Koutsantonis is a local member who had his photo in the paper with his arms crossed and a grumpy look, but he did not promote his solution, just complained about Liberal ones, so I guess he doesn't want the construction works through his electorate.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4164 Post by how good is he » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm

In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4165 Post by aceman » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm

how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
mate the end of next year will come around and still no decision will have been made. I guess if we wait until 2050 then technologies would have advanced even further so may as well wait until then. blind freddy can see that it's been ignored repeatedly by who ever has been in government because it's just too costly. in the meantime whatever work has been done will just allow us to get to the next bottle neck faster.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4166 Post by SBD » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:14 pm

aceman wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm
how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
mate the end of next year will come around and still no decision will have been made. I guess if we wait until 2050 then technologies would have advanced even further so may as well wait until then. blind freddy can see that it's been ignored repeatedly by who ever has been in government because it's just too costly. in the meantime whatever work has been done will just allow us to get to the next bottle neck faster.
I think the original delivery strategy looked plausible. I suspect that there are internal misgivings in the ALP, else it would have announced the next significant stage before the 2018 election, either as an election promise or as a commitment that Liberal would have to pay for, like it or not. Instead, we have Liberal doing the short R2P section, and dithering about tunnels, with no help or support from Labor for the completion of the section that is solid red on Google Maps traffic almost all of every day.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4167 Post by rev » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:17 am

SBD wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:14 pm
aceman wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm
how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
mate the end of next year will come around and still no decision will have been made. I guess if we wait until 2050 then technologies would have advanced even further so may as well wait until then. blind freddy can see that it's been ignored repeatedly by who ever has been in government because it's just too costly. in the meantime whatever work has been done will just allow us to get to the next bottle neck faster.
I think the original delivery strategy looked plausible. I suspect that there are internal misgivings in the ALP, else it would have announced the next significant stage before the 2018 election, either as an election promise or as a commitment that Liberal would have to pay for, like it or not. Instead, we have Liberal doing the short R2P section, and dithering about tunnels, with no help or support from Labor for the completion of the section that is solid red on Google Maps traffic almost all of every day.
R2P was going to happen regardless of who won the election, perhaps a little sooner then it has if Labor had continued on in power.

Labor didn't announce anything about Darlington to T2T, because of the so called "heritage" issues along that section. If they had announced they would continue the trench, demolishing everything in it's path, it would have given the Liberals a platform to use against them, and the Advertiser would have ran almost daily press on it.

The Liberals will probably try turn the remaining section into an election issue, not actually doing anything but presenting some grand plan.

Personally I have very little faith that the section between Darlington and T2T will start before the end of the next governments term.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4168 Post by claybro » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:02 am

how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
Meanwhile here in WA, it has been announced an extra $800million in federal funding to continue freeway construction, rail spending and some regional improvements. It shows that when there are plans, corridor reserves, and political will in place the money is on the table. SA misses out and seemingly it doesn't matter who is in power in SA, there is just no political will to get these major routes planned for the next 30 to 50 years let alone a decade.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4169 Post by rev » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:41 am

claybro wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:02 am
how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
Meanwhile here in WA, it has been announced an extra $800million in federal funding to continue freeway construction, rail spending and some regional improvements. It shows that when there are plans, corridor reserves, and political will in place the money is on the table. SA misses out and seemingly it doesn't matter who is in power in SA, there is just no political will to get these major routes planned for the next 30 to 50 years let alone a decade.
South Australia is parallelized politically, and by the country town mentality. We are two decades into the 21st century, and we still don't have that level infrastructure of a 20th century western city. The majority of the motorway network should have been built at least 20 years ago. We are like a city in a third world country just building their major road freight infrastructure. The rest of our infrastructure, pt... ---> :hilarious:

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4170 Post by SBD » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:50 am

rev wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:41 am
claybro wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:02 am
how good is he wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 pm
In July this year the Govt minister, Mr Speirs said planning was in its very early stages for the upgrade's stretch from Darlington to the River Torrens, and, with three models being considered, "two of them included a lot of tunnelling".

"If tunnelling were the option, that would see a lot less buildings acquired," he said.

"Technologies are continually changing and we do know that while tunnelling may have been ruled out five, 10 or 15 years ago, today it is cheaper and we've got better technologies there."

The Premier, Mr Marshall has also said the aim was to have a decision on which option to go with by the end of this year.
Meanwhile here in WA, it has been announced an extra $800million in federal funding to continue freeway construction, rail spending and some regional improvements. It shows that when there are plans, corridor reserves, and political will in place the money is on the table. SA misses out and seemingly it doesn't matter who is in power in SA, there is just no political will to get these major routes planned for the next 30 to 50 years let alone a decade.
South Australia is parallelized politically, and by the country town mentality. We are two decades into the 21st century, and we still don't have that level infrastructure of a 20th century western city. The majority of the motorway network should have been built at least 20 years ago. We are like a city in a third world country just building their major road freight infrastructure. The rest of our infrastructure, pt... ---> :hilarious:
I can't even work out who to blame - Labor, Liberal or DPTI. The plan for ten year delivery did not appear to have significant issues with heritage buildings. It had at least a high-level view of how to deal with them. The Superway was built as a trial to see that it could work past Castle Plaza. Sometime after letting contracts for T2T, NC and Darlington, the ball was dropped and nobody appears to have been working on picking the next stage for detailed design and implementation. That should have started before the last election, so the contractors could be ready to move on to it as they finished the current (then - including T2T) projects. The NS Corridor lost the momentum before the election, and change of government has possibly made it harder to pick up again as there are other priorities now as well.

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