[VIS] 33 Pirie Street | 103m | 32lvls | Office

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UrbanSG
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[VIS] 33 Pirie Street | 103m | 32lvls | Office

#1 Post by UrbanSG » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:15 pm

This is NOT a formal development application. I found this on the realcommercial website today (it was also in today's paper).

This building (Epworth Building) is directly to the east of the Adelaide City Council offices (incorrectly shown on the 1st pic). It is currently up for sale. The advertisement promotes the 103m height limit for the site and gives an example concept render for a building that would retain the main heritage features of the building whilst maximising height. Looks interesting.

It would be good to see a higher resolution image of the concept render.

Image

Image
Last edited by UrbanSG on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street

#2 Post by Pikey » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:16 pm

Nice find!

And good to see a nice up to date image too!
Walking on over....

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#3 Post by Professor » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:50 pm

Yes, would be a good development.

The first picture is a bit old, with SANTOS still in their building and the RAA still intact in Hindmarxh Sq.

The second picture is very recent, probably taken just before the autumn rains arrived in May and which turned the parklands green.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#4 Post by Howie » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:12 pm

Great find Urban! Fantastic location for a tallie.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#5 Post by Will » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:17 pm

I personally do not like such developments. They ruin the heritage building. The Epworth Building is one of the most significant early 'high-rise' buildings in Adelaide, and a rare example of gothic multi-storey architecture. I hope the integrity of this building is never threatened by such an out of scale proposal.

I hope this serves as a wake up call to the ACC. Adelaide is entering a new and exciting period os strong economic growth which will consequently result in higher demand for office accomodation in the CBD. With our current outdated height limits, which only permit 100m+ buildings in very small sections of the CBD, you will increasingly find that more heritgae buildings such as this will be threatened by un-sympathetic proposals. In summary: lift the height limits!

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#6 Post by loud » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:37 pm

Will wrote:I personally do not like such developments. They ruin the heritage building. The Epworth Building is one of the most significant early 'high-rise' buildings in Adelaide, and a rare example of gothic multi-storey architecture. I hope the integrity of this building is never threatened by such an out of scale proposal.

I hope this serves as a wake up call to the ACC. Adelaide is entering a new and exciting period os strong economic growth which will consequently result in higher demand for office accomodation in the CBD. With our current outdated height limits, which only permit 100m+ buildings in very small sections of the CBD, you will increasingly find that more heritgae buildings such as this will be threatened by un-sympathetic proposals. In summary: lift the height limits!
How exactly do you mean they ruin the heritage of the building? The whole heritage component of it is in its frontage and the first 4 metres of its western wall, after that it is just plain, concrete walls.

This proposal retains all of the heritage component of the building (with a significant set-back back before the tower rises from behind) and breathes new life and new money into a property that needs some attention. Examples of this also include Chesser House and 77 Grenfell Street...
Last edited by loud on Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#7 Post by skyliner » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:38 pm

Overall Will I agree. However, concerning a possiblr resultant push for increased height limits, read in the Fin Review today how construction (housing and high rise) is falling - except SA - but still with both affected. May thus see a fall in frequency of new applications.

As far as out of scale proposals go - try 100 floors in Brisbane - insane!First time any development has entered their airspace - airport not far way - interesting!

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#8 Post by Will » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:49 pm

loud wrote:
Will wrote:I personally do not like such developments. They ruin the heritage building. The Epworth Building is one of the most significant early 'high-rise' buildings in Adelaide, and a rare example of gothic multi-storey architecture. I hope the integrity of this building is never threatened by such an out of scale proposal.

I hope this serves as a wake up call to the ACC. Adelaide is entering a new and exciting period os strong economic growth which will consequently result in higher demand for office accomodation in the CBD. With our current outdated height limits, which only permit 100m+ buildings in very small sections of the CBD, you will increasingly find that more heritgae buildings such as this will be threatened by un-sympathetic proposals. In summary: lift the height limits!
How exactly do you mean they ruin the heritage of the building? The whole heritage component of it is in its frontage and the first 4 metres of its western wall, after that it is just plain, concrete walls.

This proposal retains all of the heritage component of the building (with a significant set-back back before the tower rises from behind) and breathes new life and new money into a property that needs some attention. Examples of this also include Chesser House and 77 Grenfell Street...
Heritage is more than a nice facade.

The building's western façade is not plain concrete. I wonder whether you actually know what the building looks like. To help you reconsider your statement here is the building's 'plain concrete' western façade: Image

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#9 Post by urban » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:59 pm

That is truly one of Adelaide's hidden gems and would become one of Adelaide's greatest losses if destroyed. The facadism of Chesser House, 77 Grenfell St and the east end markets (with the car park behind) doesn't work from a heritage or streetscape view. Buildings are much more than just a series of walls joined together. Facadism is very lazy architecture which results in a highly compromised building.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#10 Post by loud » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:05 pm

Trust me, I know what this building looks like, and whilst I am usually a fan of sarcasm, I dont make mis-informed statements without doing my research.

For YOUR information, this building has been described by the Australian Heritage Places Inventory as follows

An unusual example of the application of Gothic derived details to a 'U' shaped, seven storey (six stories above and one below ground) commercial office building. The decoration applies only to the facade wall and to one bay visible on the western wall. The remaining sides and rear walls of the building either abut other buildings (and are not visible) or are very plain.
This is a distinctive building with lancet windows set into panels that are symmetrical about a gabled central element on the facade. One bay on the western wall features similar decoration. These sections of the building are rendered and ornamented with Gothic derived moulds, capitals and cornices. The building is of reinforced concrete construction with brick infill.


If you actually have a close look at the remainder of the western wall, it really is quite plain and does not share any of the attractive, detailed craftwork applied to the frontage and first 4 metres. Infact, the rear of the building was built at a latter date altogther to the front.

The photograph that you have provided does not take into account the fact that you can not actually see all of that frontage from that angle anyway, as it is hidden by the ACCC building. I have attached a recent photograph, that, whilst not brilliant, does go some way in to showing the difference in treatment between the front and rear sections of the building.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#11 Post by loud » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:07 pm

Apologies, photo attached
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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#12 Post by urban » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:19 pm

Looks pretty good to me. Just because they're not currently making best use of it doesn't mean it should be demolished.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#13 Post by Omicron » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:24 pm

Just so I have it on the record, the limp-wristed efforts of Chesser House to create a low-rise facade to supposedly tie-in with the quaint, tweed hats nature of the street is laughably clumsy - just as the supposed 'marvellous' retention of the heritage facade next door is as transparent as cling wrap.

Adelaide is best at retaining old buildings in their entirety - our efforts at maintaining facades in front of new towers aren't all that wonderful in comparison. There would need to be a very, very good design proposed for this site before I would consider hacking off Epworth's rear end and ruining its stance and poportions.

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#14 Post by loud » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:35 pm

I couldn't agree more Omicron, but unfortunately developers will get away with what the council will let them.

My problem with the opposition of, lets call it the "refreshing" of these heritage buildings, is that is doesn't take into account how poorly a lot of them are being treated now.

For example: This heritage listed facade has window rattlers (window mounted air conditioning units) all over it!

If a developer were able to come in with a plan to retain all of the heritage nature of the property, spent money on cleaning up and restoring the frontage and invoking green building initiatives, etc, isn't that a good thing?

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[VIS] Re: 33 Pirie Street - Concept

#15 Post by Will » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:42 pm

loud wrote:Trust me, I know what this building looks like, and whilst I am usually a fan of sarcasm, I dont make mis-informed statements without doing my research.

For YOUR information, this building has been described by the Australian Heritage Places Inventory as follows

An unusual example of the application of Gothic derived details to a 'U' shaped, seven storey (six stories above and one below ground) commercial office building. The decoration applies only to the facade wall and to one bay visible on the western wall. The remaining sides and rear walls of the building either abut other buildings (and are not visible) or are very plain.
This is a distinctive building with lancet windows set into panels that are symmetrical about a gabled central element on the facade. One bay on the western wall features similar decoration. These sections of the building are rendered and ornamented with Gothic derived moulds, capitals and cornices. The building is of reinforced concrete construction with brick infill.


If you actually have a close look at the remainder of the western wall, it really is quite plain and does not share any of the attractive, detailed craftwork applied to the frontage and first 4 metres. Infact, the rear of the building was built at a latter date altogther to the front.

The photograph that you have provided does not take into account the fact that you can not actually see all of that frontage from that angle anyway, as it is hidden by the ACCC building. I have attached a recent photograph, that, whilst not brilliant, does go some way in to showing the difference in treatment between the front and rear sections of the building.
What part of my statement is mis-informed? In fact from the theme of your post you appear to be the mis-informed debater in this arguement because you are basing your interpretation of whether this should be preserved solely based on the look of the western façade. Furthermore you make it appear that only the first bay was built back in 1927. In fact, the first 5 bays were built at the same time as the Pirie Street and the first 4m of the western façade. The newer annexe which you mention is located at the far south of the building and cannot be appreaciated in the photo you posted. Although the other western bays are not as attractive as the northernmost bay, they are definately not plain, and should not be demolished, as the building would loose its 'continuity'.

As Urban mentioned, building's are more than a couple of walls. This building represents an important period in the religious history of this state. It represents a period where the Methodist Church, the Wesleyans, Bible Christians and Primitive Methodists decided to merge into a single united church, which is the precursor to todays Uniting Church. This building was built as the administrative offices of the new united religion. I think that is significant and worth retaining.

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