News & Discussion: CBD Real Estate & Market Conditions

[adam_stuckey]

Adelaide really needs somw quality 5 star accommodation the only thing close to that is the Rendezvous Allegra which is a very generously self rated 5 star if Adelaide is serious about attracting tourists here and not just 1 night stayers (which is 68% of all people coming to Adelaide) we need some real quality. Because personally I've stayed in town at the Hyatt and at the Radison but I've also stayed at Crown Towers in Melbourne and considering I payed 10 - 15% more to stay there it was a thousand time better.

Honestly thats what Adelaide really needs as a city a Crown complex with a 5 star hotel and a movie cinema! Thats what we should build at the rail yards right along the torrens (just next to the stadium hehe)

[Strangled Cat]

Adelaide really needs somw quality 5 star accommodation the only thing close to that is the Rendezvous Allegra which is a very generously self rated 5 star if Adelaide is serious about attracting tourists here and not just 1 night stayers (which is 68% of all people coming to Adelaide) we need some real quality. Because personally I've stayed in town at the Hyatt and at the Radison but I've also stayed at Crown Towers in Melbourne and considering I payed 10 - 15% more to stay there it was a thousand time better.

Honestly thats what Adelaide really needs as a city a Crown complex with a 5 star hotel and a movie cinema! Thats what we should build at the rail yards right along the torrens (just next to the stadium hehe)

It would be nice if Skycity buggered off out of the train station and built their own establishment. Adelaide needs a decent entertainment complex. When friends from Melbourne come over and see that this states major casino is based in a train station it's the butt of all jokes. There was a proposal to built a new Skycity complex with a 5-star Hotel along the river a year or so ago in paper. I hope this can happen, Adelaide needs somthing similar to the Burswood as that's been a great success, and credit goes to Perth for proving that it's viable in a City of 1-1.5m people if done correctly.

[adam_stuckey]

I heard this off a friend so i'm not sure exactly how true this is but to get Crown Casino built Melbourne literally gave the land away and i know for a fact that they pay like $100 per year in rent for the first 20 years of they're stay after that it goes to market rate. maybe this is something adelaide needs to think about just hand over the rail yards into private hands and obviously don't just let them build whatever they want, but i'm sure it would help and speed things up if an organisation could already own it and planning could start tomorrow on whatever was agreed to be built there.

Wouldn't something like this look so good on the Torrens? (Obviously it would be the SA version...smaller)

[Pistol]

It would be nice if Skycity buggered off out of the train station and built their own establishment. Adelaide needs a decent entertainment complex. When friends from Melbourne come over and see that this states major casino is based in a train station it's the butt of all jokes. There was a proposal to built a new Skycity complex with a 5-star Hotel along the river a year or so ago in paper. I hope this can happen, Adelaide needs somthing similar to the Burswood as that's been a great success, and credit goes to Perth for proving that it's viable in a City of 1-1.5m people if done correctly.

I don't understand how the casino being in the railway station building can be the brunt of jokes. That is one of the most beautiful buildings in Adelaide. Maybe you should get new friends.
As I said in another thread, there is talk of SkyCity moving to a purpose built building in their strategic plan - so you can get your wish.
We do not want another Burswood though - too far away from the CBD so all it is is a suburban pokie barn.

[AtD]

Interestingly it was in the AFR a week or three ago, SkyCity Adelaide's revenues have remained steady during the crisis, outperforming it's peers interstate.

[adam_stuckey]

And they're keen on moving out of the Station! Skycity would like some accommodation to go with the casino. Bring on a Torrens complex with a 5 star hotel!

[peas_and_corn]

Two years ago I got a room at the Hyatt- I went to the union's Christmas dinner and I decided to make a night of it (with my other half- she had something against my hooker idea) and as such got a room. We were on the top floor, according to my dad the top atrium is reserved for people in some club, so they must have really been up to capacity to put a mere pleb like me there. We had a really great view of the Torrens, which my other half snapped a few photos of. I quite like the design of the building itself, the shape of the building makes it feel like each room has its own special view. However, it really doesn't *feel* like a 5 star hotel. The service was good and all, but it just wasn't 5 star. Apparently in the old days things were different- a front desk staff got his head shaved, so they forced him to work out back and told him to wear a hat when going to or from work (despite not wearing his uni out of work) in case 'someone recognised him'.

[adam_stuckey]

I reckon that the Hyatt was 5 star when it was built but that was 20 years ago. This i have to say is just another clear example of Adelaide doing something decent for once and then living off it for the next 10 years. Adelaide is just like Archie Thompson (melbourne Victory) scores 5 goals in a grand final and then lives off of it for the next 3 seasons, no matter how bad he plays everyone just talks about the GF.

I wonder how hard it would be to get the people who built crown casino to come over here and at least discuss where would be good and how much it would cost just so we all have a ball park figure

[Strangled Cat]

It would be nice if Skycity buggered off out of the train station and built their own establishment. Adelaide needs a decent entertainment complex. When friends from Melbourne come over and see that this states major casino is based in a train station it's the butt of all jokes. There was a proposal to built a new Skycity complex with a 5-star Hotel along the river a year or so ago in paper. I hope this can happen, Adelaide needs somthing similar to the Burswood as that's been a great success, and credit goes to Perth for proving that it's viable in a City of 1-1.5m people if done correctly.

I don't understand how the casino being in the railway station building can be the brunt of jokes. That is one of the most beautiful buildings in Adelaide. Maybe you should get new friends.
As I said in another thread, there is talk of SkyCity moving to a purpose built building in their strategic plan - so you can get your wish.
We do not want another Burswood though - too far away from the CBD so all it is is a suburban pokie barn.

The train station isn't the joke, there's no issue with it. But like one of my mates said, "If my states main casino was located in the basement of Southern Cross station that would be just weird". Another mate who caught the train over from Melb said to me "they have their casino in CBD train station whilst interstate travellers have to get depart from a suburban station, what's with that?".

I have to admit to never having been to Perth so obviously I havn't been to the Burswood casino. I wasn't sure how far away it was from the CBD, all I know about it is from what people have told me, and they reckon it's really good. My mum who likes casinos and having a bet thinks that the skycity setup is odd as well, although she hasn't been so refrained from further comment. I told her to move to brisvegas.

[AtD]

In today's AFR Property section, estimates by Colliers International give Adelaide as the lowest office vacancy rate of the major cities.

Code: Select all

CBD office vacancy rate (%) forecast
         Jan09 chng Jul09
Adelaide  3.4  +1.7  5.1
Brisbane  4.2  +3.4  7.6
Canberra  8.5  +0.5  9.0
Melbourne 4.8  +1.4  6.2
Perth     1.3  +4.2  5.5
Sydney    5.4  +2.5  7.9

I'll try to scan the article tonight.

[Brando]

That's a massive jump by Perth.

[Shuz]

Perth's been in the position where they were commencing construction on a lot of new office buildings right before the GFC hit. Trouble is, now they're completed and or edging completion, the vacancy rates were always known to soar thereafter.

[UrbanSG]

Adelaide is doing comparitively well. Article from The Australian today:

Pressure on office markets in CBDs
Bridget Carter | July 23, 2009

NATIONAL central business district office markets remained under pressure in the second quarter, with the vacancy rate reaching 7.5 per cent.

June quarter figures released by Jones Lang LaSalle yesterday show the vacancy rate across all CBD office markets increased by 1.1 per cent in the three months to June 30.

Jones Lang LaSalle national office analyst Andrew Ballantyne said the increase was due more to the completion of new buildings and backfill space or sub-lease space than to a fall in demand from tenants, as was the case in the first quarter.

"While demand for office space can be expected to decline in all CBD markets over the next few quarters, analysis of quarterly data suggests that from a national perspective the pace of decline has slowed," Mr Ballantyne said.

With the exception of Melbourne, all markets recorded an increase in vacancies.

Perth's vacancy rate hit 6.6per cent, Canberra's rate reached 9.6 per cent and Brisbane CBD touched 7.5 per cent.

The three cities all recorded the highest uplifts, of 3.2 per cent, 1.8 per cent and 1.7 per cent, respectively.

The vacancy rate in Sydney's central business district is now 8.8 per cent and Adelaide's is 5.3per cent. Both increased by less than 1 per cent.

Mr Ballantyne said the Melbourne central business district continued to surprise analysts.

Despite sub-lease availability increasing from 1.6 per cent to 2per cent of the total stock in the second quarter, the headline vacancy rate remained unchanged at 5.9 per cent.

"The Melbourne CBD benefits from affordable rental levels, while the availability of contiguous space has enabled tenants to relocate from the fringe to the CBD," he said.

But the continued high occupancy rates in the Melbourne CBD had been to the detriment of other markets, including St Kilda Road, where the vacancy rate has increased to 10.7 per cent in the second quarter from 5.8 per cent a year earlier.

[AtD]

Adelaide gets quite a few mentions in today's AFR, outside the mining and defense sectors where it usually resides.

There's an 8 page lift out reviewing the latest forecasts on CBD office markets around the nation. On it's front page, "Adelaide holds the line"
- Adelaide's CBD office market is outperforming the other capitals.
- Adelaide's net office absorption was -6800sqm in the June qtr.
- The lack of supply is keeping the market hot, with rents staying flat compared to falls elsewhere
- New supply is being constrained by financing requirements, cautious tenants and "and in some cases, opposition from local planning authorities.
- Origin Energy are seeking 15,000sqm of new space.

Then, in the Property section:
- Ingle Farm shopping centre has been sold for $82 million to a Sydney fund, a fully leased yield of 9%, wich is quite high. Previously it was owned by Colonial First State. (p47)
- Adelaide's Markis Group has acquired a shopping centre in Melbourne's suburbs. (p47)
- Adelaide's Construction industry is tipped to outperform the nation in 2009/10. Tender prices are tipped to keep pace with inflation in Adelaide and Darwin, while staying stagnant in Sydney and Canberra and falling quite dramatically in the other capitals. (p55)

[Shuz]

Interesting to note; Origin Energy seeking 15,000sqm of space. It's enough to fill about 90% of Aurora on Pirie West Tower. FInanciers would be happy to fund with such a large pre-commitment if it eventuated.