COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[Ben]

Oh and BTW I have no doubt I'm older than you and from the feeling I get you don't drive past the Casino or down North Terrace. Maybe catch a bus in from North Adelaide every morning and go home the same way at night? Please, come back to me when you have some real experience with the traffic problems it's caused.

Actually no I live in Mile End now and regularly use North terrace as a thorughfare though it is not intended for this purpose. But I can honestly say I have never experienced any traffic congestion other than the usual peak hour delays which are nothing compared to any other Aus city and if i did I would mention it because no doubt i would be unhappy about it as you are. People should catch pulic transport to the CBD where possible, at the moment this is not happening, with more light rail systems this will increase public transport patronage and reduce congestion.

[Pistol]

Wow its good to see Froggy back with his words of wisdom :wank:

He isn't Martin Hamilton-Smith by any chance...

[Froggy]

How exactly is this tramline to no where going to increase public patronage to work? It's simply not, that's an argument from rail lovers. It really doesn't change how anyone gets into work, you are not going to suddenly stop driving and start catching the train in because you can now get out and wait 5 minutes for a tram to come and take you the extra 200 metres up king william st to work (when you could of walked there and back and back again in that time). I still fail to see how this tram extension is going to reduce traffic and increase patronage?

[Froggy]

Wow its good to see Froggy back with his words of wisdom :wank:

He isn't Martin Hamilton-Smith by any chance...

My words of wisdom happen to be what the majority of South Australian's think about this stupid extension, the only person I know who loves it is my brother and suprise suprise he's a full on rail buff.

[Will409]

It's good to see that what was once a beautiful street is now ugly with those horrendous power poles and lines all over the place, it is an absolute disgrace.

The main section of the poles is roughly the same diametre of the original flag poles and are roughly the same height. The colour has also been replicated even to try and minimise the visual impact. In Melbourne, they usually have nothing but a galvanised steel poll put up so we have come off very well. It doesn't take much of an imagination to see what difference that would make compared to what we have now.

Oh and lets thank the tram for adding a 4th set of traffic lights in 500 metres on North Terrace, I'm sure that everyone's thrilled with that. Let's remember why the tram was taken out in the first place, to stop traffic congestion. What has it done since it has been put back in? Added at least 10 minute travel time across the city in non peak and 20+ in peak well done SA Gov.

In the late 1950s when the MTT was still around, the tracks and rollingstock had been worn out by the 6 years of the Second World War because of material shortages (mainly steel and copper wiring). These resources which would have otherwise gone towards maintenance and renewal was instead diverted to the war effort since it was a 'total war'. All facets of life suffered. The system was flogged without mercy to shift the record numbers of people using the system. All other cities which had tram systems (Melbourne included) all suffered similar problems. A major reason why the Melbourne system survived was that it was generally newer in regards to rollingstock and infrastructure then other cities. As an example, most of the Syndey system was built before the First World War where as Melbourne's generally came together in the 1920s.

It should also be remembered that the infrastructure in Adelaide at the time before closure generally dated from the opening of the system in 1909. Much of the system in the 1950s was simply track laid on dirt with timber sleepers surrounded by bitumen. This was not good for drainage and the timber sleepers rotted under the road surface. Today, all track is encased in concrete with good drainage systems.

The tramline STILL goes to no where and has cleverly been done in a way where no patronage base can be attributed to it's success or not by making trips free. The gov KNOWS that it will not get much use besides the initial rail lovers jamming on it for a 1 km trip.

Have you ever seen the Beeline? It travels exactly the same route as the tram. There are several passenger flows and even on weekends, it does get tight for passengers. First is the flow from the Railway Station to Rundle Mall. Second is the flow from the Railway Station to Victoria Square to connect with the tram to Glenelg. The third main flow is from Victoria Square to Rundle Mall. Fourth is the flow from Victoria Square to the Railway Station. Finally, there is a smaller amount of traffic to City West.

On a Railway Station to Victoria Square run, roughly half of the riders will disembark at Rundle Mall with the other half staying on board. After the riders getting off have cleared away, an almost equal (and sometimes greater) flow will board the bus. A few people will get off at Pirie Street but most stay to Victoria Square and the tram. A similar story applies for the return trip to the Railway Station. Half will get off at Rundle Mall with the rest staying on to the Railway Station. A few people do stay on to City West for the Uni and the Skate Park.

As you can probably see from my photo reports, I have spent a HUGE amount of time on the ground and have seen these things first hand over and over again. Finally, your ignorance is going to eventually get the better of you. The fare for the tram from City West to Victoria Square AND South Terrace (and extension of the Beeline service) will be free. All the press from The Advertiser, Chs 7, 9 and 10, the DTIE, TransAdelaide, AdelaideMetro AND a few TransAdelaide employees have stated that the service will be free.

[quote="froggy"I give them 10 years max before they fill it in - again.[/quote]

I doubt it. No gauruntee of success can be granted until we see how well it runs in service. I will make no further comment on that, and neither should you. All we can do is wait and see.

If might flow easier along king william but its still a HUGE pain int he arse for anyone who is coming in that needs to turn right down these roads to get to car parks etc, they now have to go a full circuit to get to what was once a simple right hand turn.

A ban on right hand turns had already been in place during peak periods for several years previously. Think and read carefully what I write. The put a ban in place during the busiest possible time in the City and everything worked without much of a hassle. They have extended it to include NON PEAK and NIGHT when there is hardly a car on the road.

As I have already said, I have been on the ground many, many, many times at various times during the week. Both before major track laying began (and all other changes associated with it) and afterwards. Traffic does still flow fairly smoothly through King William Street and North Terrace. From the eastern side of Morphett Street Bridge, you get an excellent view down North Terrace towards King William Street. The only major set of traffic lights currently is the set across the road from the railway station. The maximum that you would see is about 7 cars per lane. 14 cars. Compared to say Sydney where there is usually something like 25-35 over two lanes (and before you ask, I was in Syndey during January), Adelaide is let off very easily.

[crawf]

What has it done since it has been put back in? Added at least 10 minute travel time across the city in non peak and 20+ in peak well done SA Gov.

Source?, or did you just pull those figures out of thin air?

The tramline STILL goes to no where and has cleverly been done in a way where no patronage base can be attributed to it's success or not by making trips free.

It it will stop outside the University of South Australia, close to Hindley Street (which could kick start much needed development in the area), TafeSA Adelaide City Campus, Adelaide Centre for the Arts and the future major hospital. So saying no one will stop there is just plain garbage.

The gov KNOWS that it will not get much use besides the initial rail lovers jamming on it for a 1 km trip.

So you think the thousands of people that use the cramped Beeline service daily, will walk instead?. And you think the State Government has just spent $31 million to listen to non stop bull shit for a joy ride for rail lovers - god use some logic!

You do know the CBD is for the people, not cars :wank: . The new tramline service is going improve connection for public transport users and be a boast for the city.

[urban]

The point of the extension is not just to take people 200m down the road but to deliver those who catch the tram 200m (or 1.5km to city west) closer to their destination. By reducing the walk at the start or end of the trip you speed up the entire journey by between 3 and 15 minutes thus making public transport a much more attractive option. The RAA kicked up a fuss because the scramble crossings were likely to add 20 seconds to journeys down KWS.

[kymbosa]

How exactly is this tramline to no where going to increase public patronage to work? It's simply not, that's an argument from rail lovers. It really doesn't change how anyone gets into work, you are not going to suddenly stop driving and start catching the train in because you can now get out and wait 5 minutes for a tram to come and take you the extra 200 metres up king william st to work (when you could of walked there and back and back again in that time). I still fail to see how this tram extension is going to reduce traffic and increase patronage?

The tram to no where? If i am not wrong but the tramline is to a Major South Australian and International based univeristy. For the line to get there it passes through two of Adelaide highest tourist spots, Rundle Mall and the Casnio. The tram at the moment is to a place of "no" where. As two studies have shown, one by the government and the other by UniSA, over 90% of passengers that catch the tram to victoria square, (its current stop), currently have to walk down King William St to work. Out of that 90% of passengers 30% end up going to North tce. A tram to no where, i think not. If it's a tram to no where, the bike and skate park wouldn't be popular, there would be a university on that side of town. The biggest example of why this tramline is important and will work, is the amount of tourists that during the Ashes, had no idea which way the Adelaide oval was and couldn't understand why a tramline would stop at a square that was so far away from everything, and that was surrounded by nothing. A tram to no where is where it is currently going. Now teenages during summer can catch the train to the city, hop on the tram and be down the beach in 25 minutes, instead of walking in 30degree weather bumping into workers and causing old people to say, gee are the youth of today rude. Patronage will grow, and once this city realises that the Marg, (new hospital), is worth every cent, the tramline will be at the Hospitals door step. And then people might understand that the tram isn't to no where, but to somewhere, and the future possiblities are endless.

[Cruise]

yah!! froggy's back!!!

it costs 30 mill for a tram to do something Busses could do for FA cost.
the tramline extension is a joke.

[Will409]

Unless I am mis reading it for sarcasm, I thought you were atleast partly on side with the extension cruise control? I won't hold your opinion against you for as I said to froggy, we will only know if it is a success when it runs in service.

[urban]

So cruise control are you trying to tell us that the tram stopping at Vic Sq did not deter anyone from catching it?

[Cruise]

Unless I am mis reading it for sarcasm, I thought you were atleast partly on side with the extension cruise control? I won't hold your opinion against you for as I said to froggy, we will only know if it is a success when it runs in service.

Im 50/50 on it

So cruise control are you trying to tell us that the tram stopping at Vic Sq did not deter anyone from catching it?

I cant see why not

[Cruise]

Im only glad froggys back because i find his posts amusing

[Cruise]

Dont get me wrong im an advocate for public transport.
I just feel there were more important projects then this 30 million could have bee put towards,
such as:

A) could resleeper a fair portion of our railway lines

B) upgrade our disgusting railway stations

C.a) extend the obahn closer to the city and golden grove (to get the busses off the roads, and ease congestion)

C.b) convert the o bahn into a railway line

D) put towards desal plant

just a few ideas to think about

[ynotsfables]

On top of all, that has been discussed on this topic, the tram adds vibrancy and character to the city which is a good thing. There are more pro's than con's in having this extention I can go on for ever with its benefits. However the major benefit is, it's future potential to go down the middle of Port Road, stop at West lakes (AAIMI stadium), then to Semaphore and then Port Adelaide. That's quite a significant journey from Glenelg. From a tourism point of view this will add to the agenda of "What to do in Adelaide". From a Public transport point of view it will service many areas. As for Port Road it will be the beginings of it's beautification. That road has sooo much potential to be landscaped and modernized. Lets get creative, use some imagination, maybe have a restaraunt in one carriage who knows, but lets not condem it. Its all part of our progress. What are we scared of. Why does it make some people angry. I don't want to hear it's a waste of money because so is buying a new car, so why can't this city spoil itself too. In the long run it may even benefit our economy.

Bye for now