Vision - Britannia Roundabout

[urban]

Closing off Fullarton Rd Nth from the roundabout is the simplest, most cost effective solution and would also create efficient traffic flow. The Parade/Fullarton Rd intersection could remain as it is. Blocking off Rundle Rd through the parklands and eliminating the intersection would speed the flow of traffic around the city without inconveniencing many commuters while reducing the traffic load on the Parade/Fullarton intersection.

[AG]

Closing off Fullarton Rd Nth from the roundabout is the simplest, most cost effective solution and would also create efficient traffic flow. The Parade/Fullarton Rd intersection could remain as it is. Blocking off Rundle Rd through the parklands and eliminating the intersection would speed the flow of traffic around the city without inconveniencing many commuters while reducing the traffic load on the Parade/Fullarton intersection.

Check the diagrams in my first post. Basically the same as what you have described, other than the additional redoing on the Parade and Fullarton Road intersection. I wouldn't shut Rundle Road though, it's an important link for those heading in from the East during peak hour into the northern part of the CBD.

[Ho Really]

Closing off Fullarton Rd Nth from the roundabout is the simplest, most cost effective solution and would also create efficient traffic flow. The Parade/Fullarton Rd intersection could remain as it is. Blocking off Rundle Rd through the parklands and eliminating the intersection would speed the flow of traffic around the city without inconveniencing many commuters while reducing the traffic load on the Parade/Fullarton intersection.

Why would you close access to Fullarton Road north? The major issue with the Britannia roundabout is the angled approaches of Dequetteville Terrace and Wakefield Roads. The Fullarton and Kensington Roads approaches are basically all at right angles and easily managed.

And why block Rundle Road? You're not going to make many commuters happy by doing this. Rundle Road has no effect on what happens at the Britannia. If Rundle Road is blocked traffic will increase on North Terrace and Bartels Road.

...other than the additional redoing on the Parade and Fullarton Road intersection.

I don't see any benefit in diverting Fullarton Road into Flinders Street. The intersection of Parade West, Fullarton Road, Flinders Street works, why change it?

Cheers

[AG]

The reason I thought making changes to The Parade and Fullarton Road intersection was appropriate was because restricting Fullarton Road north of Britannia to local access only would send more traffic along Dequetteville Terrace and Flinders Street. The southern approach to this intersection would be redundant if traffic along this stretch of Fullarton Road was restricted only to local traffic, plus it would allow the intersection to flow smoother with longer green sequences to fewer approaches. It's more about making changes to accomodate changing patterns in traffic flow ahead of time rather than a case of fixing the intersection.

Dequetteville Terrace has the capacity to support a sizeable increase in traffic. In a similar fashion to what I stated above, the roundabout altered to a four approach intersection would allow for smoother traffic flow, particularly along the key ring route around the CBD.

[urban]

Ho Really I was looking at the broader issues of Fullarton Rd and Dequetteville Tce being part of the city's ring route and trying to reduce the vehicle congestion within the city. Either AG's left in left out solution to Fullarton Rd Nth or just closing it off completely returns the intersection to a standard 4-way intersection which standard traffic lights deal with efficently.
Improving the efficiency of ring routes around the city will help to reduce the city being used as a thoroughfare making it easier for those actually travelling to the city. Consideration should also be given to blocking the extension of Hutt St and Morphett St to Greenhill Rd to improve the efficiency of this East-West ring road.
Reducing private vehicle movements in the city will allow our public transport systems to run more efficiently. Increased PT usage improves the efficiency of the system, leads to more active and vibrant streets and increases levels of incidental physical activity.

[Ho Really]

The reason I thought making changes to The Parade and Fullarton Road intersection was appropriate was because restricting Fullarton Road north of Britannia to local access only would send more traffic along Dequetteville Terrace and Flinders Street. The southern approach to this intersection would be redundant if traffic along this stretch of Fullarton Road was restricted only to local traffic, plus it would allow the intersection to flow smoother with longer green sequences to fewer approaches. It's more about making changes to accomodate changing patterns in traffic flow ahead of time rather than a case of fixing the intersection.

Maybe but you’re still making a perfectly working intersection at Parade West, Fullarton Road, Flinders Street into something more complicated. How are you going to manage traffic at the Fullarton Road t-junction with Flinders Street? And who says that part of Fullarton Road will have enough traffic at peak hour taken out that it won’t cause issues elsewhere?

Dequetteville Terrace has the capacity to support a sizeable increase in traffic. In a similar fashion to what I stated above, the roundabout altered to a four approach intersection would allow for smoother traffic flow, particularly along the key ring route around the CBD.

I understand that a four approach intersection is a good solution. Not sure that sending extra traffic from Fullarton Road to Flinders Street or onto other smaller streets off Kensington Road (which I guess will be closed off) is the solution.

Also the idea of forcing most traffic to use a ring route around Adelaide is not going to go down well with many people. A lot of the roads (to be closed off) are not just for car traffic but also light commercial vehicles. They also need to be open for emergency vehicles (small and big).

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Ho Really I was looking at the broader issues of Fullarton Rd and Dequetteville Tce being part of the city's ring route and trying to reduce the vehicle congestion within the city.

[...]

Improving the efficiency of ring routes around the city will help to reduce the city being used as a thoroughfare making it easier for those actually travelling to the city. Consideration should also be given to blocking the extension of Hutt St and Morphett St to Greenhill Rd to improve the efficiency of this East-West ring road.

Reducing private vehicle movements in the city will allow our public transport systems to run more efficiently. Increased PT usage improves the efficiency of the system, leads to more active and vibrant streets and increases levels of incidental physical activity.

The congestion in the city is happening because the council and SA government have made it so. It has narrowed streets, accesses, eliminated turning lanes, added badly synchronised trafficlights, etc. Look what’s happened to Grote Street near Victoria Square where from three lanes it has become two and Pulteney Street where turning lanes have disappeared and North Terrace where there’s already been narrowing because of the tram and the soon narrowing of the eastern portion. I’ve stated before they should leave North Terrace, Grenfell-Currie, Wakefield-Grote, King William, Morphett, Pulteney and Hutt Streets as the only major thoroughfares. The issue is that you won’t stop people from using their cars, not now or even in ten years. Public transport will probably improve but it won’t become less expensive or solve all transport issues. The city can still be vibrant, liveable etc., and have good intracity public transport with several major thoroughfares open.

Cheers

P.S. see also my statement regarding closing off roads in my post to AG.

[urban]

I’ve stated before they should leave North Terrace, Grenfell-Currie, Wakefield-Grote, King William, Morphett, Pulteney and Hutt Streets as the only major thoroughfares. The issue is that you won’t stop people from using their cars, not now or even in ten years. Public transport will probably improve but it won’t become less expensive or solve all transport issues. The city can still be vibrant, liveable etc., and have good intracity public transport with several major thoroughfares open.

The closing or narrowing of non-essential thoroughfares will help make these roads more pedestrian friendly and therefore more vibrant. We will never have a vibrant city while most of the workers in the city go straight from the office to the carpark (much of the time without leaving the one building). Transport decision making needs to change from what is best for cars to what is best for people. Currently road design works by fitting in as many cars as possible then squeezing PT, pedestrians and cyclists in the leftover space. The design process should cater first for pedestrians followed in order by cyclists, PT then finally cars.
Take for example the side streets between Grenfell St and Wakefield St. This area has a high density of workers but the footpaths are just wide enough to fit one person. A high number of vehicle crossover points primarily servicing car parks make these footpaths unpleasant to walk along. Reducing the number of cars and carparks in the city would allow these footpaths to be widened and perhaps even accommodate outdoor eating. This would encourage workers from this area to walk through to Rundle Mall and North Tce. Peel St and Leigh St off Hindley St should be the minimum standard for side roads in the CBD area.

Replacing Rundle Rd through the parklands with a wide cycling and pedestrian track would allow that portion of East Tce to be dramatically narrowed thus improving the connection between Rundle St and the parklands.

North Tce is a much improved boulevard since it was narrowed. You can not have a beautiful, vibrant city while your transport thinking is dominated by the private car. Perth is a prime example. For many years the car was king there and they had a desolate, uninhabited CBD. Now they have embraced PT and the CBD is coming alive.

[Wayno]

The closing or narrowing of non-essential thoroughfares will help make these roads more pedestrian friendly and therefore more vibrant. We will never have a vibrant city while most of the workers in the city go straight from the office to the carpark (much of the time without leaving the one building). Transport decision making needs to change from what is best for cars to what is best for people. Currently road design works by fitting in as many cars as possible then squeezing PT, pedestrians and cyclists in the leftover space. The design process should cater first for pedestrians followed in order by cyclists, PT then finally cars.
Take for example the side streets between Grenfell St and Wakefield St. This area has a high density of workers but the footpaths are just wide enough to fit one person. A high number of vehicle crossover points primarily servicing car parks make these footpaths unpleasant to walk along. Reducing the number of cars and carparks in the city would allow these footpaths to be widened and perhaps even accommodate outdoor eating. This would encourage workers from this area to walk through to Rundle Mall and North Tce. Peel St and Leigh St off Hindley St should be the minimum standard for side roads in the CBD area.

Replacing Rundle Rd through the parklands with a wide cycling and pedestrian track would allow that portion of East Tce to be dramatically narrowed thus improving the connection between Rundle St and the parklands.

North Tce is a much improved boulevard since it was narrowed. You can not have a beautiful, vibrant city while your transport thinking is dominated by the private car. Perth is a prime example. For many years the car was king there and they had a desolate, uninhabited CBD. Now they have embraced PT and the CBD is coming alive.

hallelujah - sing it brother!

[Cruise]

here's my solution, A BETTER DRIVER EDUCATION PROGRAM for people getting there license.

Oh and while I'm at it i think we should have less signalised intersections, ,more roundabouts, because roundabouts dont run on electricity and dont force you stop even when there is no traffic coming.

[rhino]

Oh and while I'm at it i think we should have less signalised intersections, ,more roundabouts, because roundabouts dont run on electricity and dont force you stop even when there is no traffic coming.

This is a good idea. I like the Mitcham Roundabout at Old Belair Road and Blythewood Road - it has yellow-red (no green) traffic lights that only operate during peak hours. When you don't have a yellow or red light, the normal roundabout rules apply - i.e. give way to traffic already on the roundabout. It's not a real practical solution for main arterials though, as roundabouts slow traffic down a lot - there aren't too many B-Doubles negotiating the Mitcham Roundabout.

[Wayno]

many thanks to those individuals who are posting pictorial representations of proposed improvements to britannia roundabout. Personally i'm a visual person and struggle with looong wordy explanations...

[AG]

The reason I thought making changes to The Parade and Fullarton Road intersection was appropriate was because restricting Fullarton Road north of Britannia to local access only would send more traffic along Dequetteville Terrace and Flinders Street. The southern approach to this intersection would be redundant if traffic along this stretch of Fullarton Road was restricted only to local traffic, plus it would allow the intersection to flow smoother with longer green sequences to fewer approaches. It's more about making changes to accomodate changing patterns in traffic flow ahead of time rather than a case of fixing the intersection.

Maybe but you’re still making a perfectly working intersection at Parade West, Fullarton Road, Flinders Street into something more complicated. How are you going to manage traffic at the Fullarton Road t-junction with Flinders Street? And who says that part of Fullarton Road will have enough traffic at peak hour taken out that it won’t cause issues elsewhere?

Dequetteville Terrace has the capacity to support a sizeable increase in traffic. In a similar fashion to what I stated above, the roundabout altered to a four approach intersection would allow for smoother traffic flow, particularly along the key ring route around the CBD.

I understand that a four approach intersection is a good solution. Not sure that sending extra traffic from Fullarton Road to Flinders Street or onto other smaller streets off Kensington Road (which I guess will be closed off) is the solution.

Also the idea of forcing most traffic to use a ring route around Adelaide is not going to go down well with many people. A lot of the roads (to be closed off) are not just for car traffic but also light commercial vehicles. They also need to be open for emergency vehicles (small and big).

Cheers

Take a look at my diagrams a drew on the first page. I think you've misinterpreted what I wrote, Kensington Road would remain open as would other side streets around it. Also, the changes to the Parade/Fullarton Road diagram are there, if anything, I would've thought the 4-approach intersection would've been simpler than the current 5. One issue that you do bring up about Flinders Street is a good one to be considered, as I as well would also consider it the potential "weak link" amongst such changes. One way this could be dealt with is to impose a permanent clearways rather than the peak hour only one that currently exists.

[Bulldozer]

here's my solution, A BETTER DRIVER EDUCATION PROGRAM for people getting there license.

Indeed. I don't see what's so scary or hard about the Britannia Roundabout itself. The scary thing is all the fuckwit drivers in Adelaide who don't know how to use roundabouts!

[monotonehell]

here's my solution, A BETTER DRIVER EDUCATION PROGRAM for people getting there license.

Their...

Indeed. I don't see what's so scary or hard about the Britannia Roundabout itself. The scary thing is all the fuckwit drivers in Adelaide who don't know how to use roundabouts!

I like roundabouts. Have you ever been to England? Oh baby they know roundabouts.

To prove it...

Click to see full map (JPEG 524KB)
This is a combination of looking at traffic patterns on SA Transport's website, reading comments and ideas on here and messing around in Inkscape.

The two main ideas are;
1. To reroute Rundle Road away from Rundle Street and down to Grenfell Street along the old Magil tram berm. Since Rundle Mall was installed Rundle Street has not been a main thoroughfare. Linking Rundle Road with Grenfell Street makes more sense, also Rundle Street (Kent Town) is a fairly wide street. Although it has the disadvantage of going "no where", a better intersection at the corner of The Parade West to encourage traffic down that way to the Parade instead of the current narrow and often bumper to bumper route down Flinders Street (Kent Town). Also to give a northern link to the ring road and an easier route to feed buses into the O-Bahn.

2. Splitting Wakefield Road as suggested in this thread, linking the two forks to the Ring Road opposite Flinders Street (Kent Town) and Grant Ave. The fork allows drivers to link to the Ring Road in a north or south direction (Nb the links are not intended to feed into Flinders and Grant, but to the ring road as indicated by current traffic counts). Also Bartels Road will be removed, to encourage Parade bound traffic to go via the new Rundle Road above.

The two abandoned stretches of road would be returned to parklands. A bike track could be placed as a short cut for Norwood residents from William Street (Norwood) along Angas Street (Kent Town) across the parlklands. I've drawn it in there but it could go elsewhere as needed (Yeah I know.. Norwood residents tend to drive 4wheel drives ).

I've put roundabouts where they will fit. Seeing how traffic flows work in England with GIANT roundabouts I don't see why Adelaide drivers can't get used to them. The only stipulation would be that they need to be properly round, with regular exits. Unlike the current Britannia Roundabout which has slipways, crossover entries and other buggerences. Although I've not put much thought into the other roundabouts as to whether they will work well.

EDIT: I've integrated the Victoria Park site master plan from http://www.dtei.sa.gov.au/infrastructur ... _park.html if it ever gets off the ground.

The other bugbear is the Boganfest (Clipsal 500). I've show a suggested route for it, but I don't know how appropriate it would be. It would be longer than the current course and makes use of the new Wakefield Road forks.

I'm open to comments and constructive suggestions.