News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

[rev]

Rev,

I think you misunderstand or are misstating my views. I am by no means saying that we don’t need roads, nor am I saying we don’t need better roads. What I am saying is that we don’t need substantially more or substantially bigger roads.

Well it appears we do have a misunderstanding. From your posts, it seems you are staunchly PT-only. But I guess that's part of the problems when talking via text only.
No harm done eitherway.

My main gripe is with congestion isn't the roads, but the drivers. I find Adelaide drivers to be mostly just plain dumb and slow to react. Which comes back to one of my other arguments from a while ago about the need for better driver training rather then throwing up speed cameras, speed humps, and lowering speed limits.

We do agree it seems on public transport being in need of more funding. The tram network really needs to be expanded, I'm still in as much disbelief as I was when I found out that we had an extensive tram network that was ripped up decades ago. I just can't fathom why any government of any political ideology in this state, would do such a thing. I also can't understand why our state government after over a decade in power, hasn't come up with a detailed plan to build a bigger tram network throughout the CBD, North Adelaide, and other inner suburbs.

Part of the problem with the roads as they are now, isn't only that there is congestion, but that they are utterly crap. And it isn't just maintenance but their design. As for maintenance, it goes well beyond metropolitan Adelaide. Go for a drive to Moonta or Hamley Bridge if Moonta is too far. The state of some roads is shocking. On the way to Moonta there's roads that have patches of bitumen put on, it's disgraceful.

South Road is one example, and the bleeding obvious example since it's our main corridor from north to south.
The ring route is a joke. It needs to be looked at and done properly. A secondary ring route needs to be established further out through the suburbs. We need to recognize that heavy vehicles do not only use South Road, but other roads throughout the metropolitan area.
That is pretty much all that is necessary as far as making bigger roads. The only new road that's going to be created, or would be if they looked at the ring route/s, is the Northern Connector.

I look forward to the day they finish the north-south corridor and give it one name, preferably "something" freeway, just to rub it in the nimby's faces a little.

So essentially what's missing and what's needed, is a comprehensive and detailed transport plan. It'll take at least 15 years to sort this mess out. And the problem with that is that obviously when(or if lol) the Liberals come into government, any project that isn't already well underway with actual roadwork, will likely be cancelled.
And then when Labor comes back into power, they'll have other priorities as the Liberals will have made a mess of this or that. And vice versa of course.

[jk1237]

So what does that say about our city vs others? It is way too easy/cheap to take the car into the cbd so why even consider another option?

yes, exactly. There is little incentive to take PT because driving the car into the CBD and parking is too easy. Just under half of all trips to the CBD are done by PT, whereas all the other big 4 cities are between 70-85%.

Rev, all trams and trains, and about 80% of buses are low floor which means that cater for wheelchairs, so non-argument

Waewick, come on, you cant be serious. Its embarrassing because our over-reliance on cars makes us look like an unsophisticated country town, not a city. Its ridiculous, and the Adelaide establishment are at it again by opposing improvements to public transport by protesting against the new obahn tunnel through the east parklands, which will actually result in a net gain to parkland space. Funny how they don't call for less roads in the parklands, because this would go against their senile conservative values of driving their car everywhere

[muzzamo]

Maybe the solution is two words - Price signal. Make PT financially attractive compared to driving (via whatever method works best. i'm no expert but maybe a congestion tax on certain roads, at certain times of day. Scan registration plates and you receive a monthly 'peak traffic road user' bill - exclude commercial vehicles).

This is very close to exactly what needs to be done.

I disagree that you would remove commercial vehicles from the toll - they need to be there too. Truth is, they would have no problem whatsoever with paying, as the commercial benefit they get from using the road space is far in excess of the price they pay to use the road.

[rev]

Rev, all trams and trains, and about 80% of buses are low floor which means that cater for wheelchairs, so non-argument

I wasn't talking about wheelchairs. But whatever.

Waewick, come on, you cant be serious. Its embarrassing because our over-reliance on cars makes us look like an unsophisticated country town, not a city. Its ridiculous, and the Adelaide establishment are at it again by opposing improvements to public transport by protesting against the new obahn tunnel through the east parklands, which will actually result in a net gain to parkland space. Funny how they don't call for less roads in the parklands, because this would go against their senile conservative values of driving their car everywhere

They oppose it because they are self interest groups. Because it will "split" their park or whatever.
Who knows, like I said these groups should be ignored and marginalized by government and the rest of society.
The problem is that Murdoch Limited gives them all the attention they want, which is then promptly followed by the tv networks trying to keep up with the latest sensationalist over blown bullshit created in the paper.

This is one of the reasons I keep saying we need a second daily paper from Fairfax. Or a daily print of InDaily.
We badly need another news outlet in this state.

[realstretts]

This is one of the reasons I keep saying we need a second daily paper from Fairfax. Or a daily print of InDaily.
We badly need another news outlet in this state.

+1000 the amount of times I hear relatives etc regurgitate Advertiser diatribe makes my brain hurt

[Waewick]

So what does that say about our city vs others? It is way too easy/cheap to take the car into the cbd so why even consider another option?

yes, exactly. There is little incentive to take PT because driving the car into the CBD and parking is too easy. Just under half of all trips to the CBD are done by PT, whereas all the other big 4 cities are between 70-85%.

Rev, all trams and trains, and about 80% of buses are low floor which means that cater for wheelchairs, so non-argument

Waewick, come on, you cant be serious. Its embarrassing because our over-reliance on cars makes us look like an unsophisticated country town, not a city. Its ridiculous, and the Adelaide establishment are at it again by opposing improvements to public transport by protesting against the new obahn tunnel through the east parklands, which will actually result in a net gain to parkland space. Funny how they don't call for less roads in the parklands, because this would go against their senile conservative values of driving their car everywhere

So I guess L.A is an un sophisticated country town? Their PT is abysmal.

All it does is reflect on a past that was literally based on the car and rightly so, it was promoted as the transport of the future and was once a sign of wealth and success – remember Adelaide is a small city, it was virtually empty a decade or so ago.
You can’t just change 50 years of infrastructure overnight because the odd person feels embarrassed, given the vast majority of people wouldn’t care one bit, let alone make reason for us to be embarrassed.

[rhino]

Well, I'm embarrassed that while other cities found a better way to operate, we didn't. Simple fact is that we are further behind the times than so many other places in this regard. And that is embarrassing. LA is not a city to hold up as something to aspire to, IMHO.

[claybro]

So it seems, despite the banter we are all in agreement.
1. The current situation is unworkable moving forward
2. A combination of solutions for all users will be required.
3. We have been badly let down in the past for the lack of adequate planning and funding (too much tinkering around the edges) by politicians of all persuasions.
4. The upside of the previous lack of action is we can learn from the mistakes of others.
5. Our grwoth is slower than other cities so we should be able to manage growth in a more planned, less panicky way.
6. There is no where near enough planning STILL, what plans there are, constanly change, are piecemeal and become political footballs.(time to re-instate a department seperate to government to oversee all transport planning/funding/prioritising/implementation.)
7. There is no where near enough money, and no politician has the balls to instigate alternative revenue streams to make all this possible STILL.(see point 6).

Time we make a loud and consistent message to our local members, instead of bleating on forums to each other about what is needed, and dont accept "it's the other mobs fault for xyz"as an excuse.
At least the transport insudustry is vocal and consistent ini voicing its needs, but keeps getting shot down by minorities.

[rhino]

Well said Claybro, you've put it all in a nutshell.

[Waewick]

What we need to do is think of an incentive to get people on PT.

We need a tangible incentive, not a disincentive for other forms.

Free wifi is a good start, but that isnt going to be enough.

My initial thought was given we use smart card you could get a discount on state taxes and charges, ironically it could be cheaper car rego.

But 1 thing i thought we could use was something like movie tickets or Netflix memberships. Enough trips per month and bang inventive delivered.

Even with the stupid PT levy put on footy tickets, which was a disgrace, it should have been done so much smarter, like rather than slugging us all and making us hate the government, they should have kept the PT charge so we still price signal the bus, but take the bus fair price off the ticket to the footy. Same idea but it becomes a visible incentive

[Goodsy]

What we need to do is think of an incentive to get people on PT.

The only incentive that will ever work will be making PT as convenient and easy to use as a car

[Waewick]

What we need to do is think of an incentive to get people on PT.

The only incentive that will ever work will be making PT as convenient and easy to use as a car

so wait until we have a population of 50m or just make driving worse. Which is a silly idea

[jk1237]

Even with the stupid PT levy put on footy tickets, which was a disgrace, it should have been done so much smarter, like rather than slugging us all and making us hate the government, they should have kept the PT charge so we still price signal the bus, but take the bus fair price off the ticket to the footy. Same idea but it becomes a visible incentive

Ok, you have completely and utterly lost the plot Waewick. Your arguments are contradicting yourself.

The PT levy on footy tickets is a smart and simple incentive to use PT to the footy and is working very well. Its not stupid, its not a disgrace, the only ones complaining are senile ultra right wing conservatives who psychologically refuse to ever use PT. They have the option of using it and taking it for free, if they don't, then they can't complain. It still needs to be subsidised regardless

[Waewick]

Even with the stupid PT levy put on footy tickets, which was a disgrace, it should have been done so much smarter, like rather than slugging us all and making us hate the government, they should have kept the PT charge so we still price signal the bus, but take the bus fair price off the ticket to the footy. Same idea but it becomes a visible incentive

Ok, you have completely and utterly lost the plot Waewick. Your arguments are contradicting yourself.

The PT levy on footy tickets is a smart and simple incentive to use PT to the footy and is working very well. Its not stupid, its not a disgrace, the only ones complaining are senile ultra right wing conservatives who psychologically refuse to ever use PT. They have the option of using it and taking it for free, if they don't, then they can't complain. It still needs to be subsidised regardless

No i havent lost the plot.

It's an un targeted immeasurable con.

All it does is unfairly tax people who walk, ride, or use PT regardless, for the price of their football ticket.

What a fairer or should i say smarter system do is simply reward those who use PT if that is your aim.

Use PT, the price off your ticket at the gate (or redunded on your travel card).

Not screw you all more expensive footy ticket.

That way instead of making everyone worse off, you simply reward those who do what you want. Take PT.

just don't ask me how to fund it

[Norman]

How is it different to have a discount off footy tickets after you used public transport to get there, to having free public transport for people who go to a game? The only thing that changes is the wording, and the outcome is exactly the same.