News & Discussion: Trams

[rhino]

Mike Rann used to get things done. Unfortunately, he was subsequently accused of making decisions and then telling the public what was happening. This was true, but at least things got done. Now we seem to be way over at the other extreme of the spectrum. Perhaps if everyone makes enough noise, the beam will start to swing the other way again.

[Waewick]

Have I mentined that any new tram should go down the parade?

if not a train, the inner east has been ignored for way too long, given the development and number of people there is should be a priority to get fare paying people onto the damn network.

[bits]

I like the idea of trams to Prospect but not sure the road is wide enough to do it.
Prospect Road has momentum and potential to be as good as The Parade. I think a tram linking Adelaide, North Adelaide and Prospect would be a huge boom.

But Prospect Road was just never built wide enough to handle its own development.

[rubberman]

Look what happens if you actually plan something and lobby, as compared to drawing a few wishful lines down Norwood Parade and other latte strips.


http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/new ... 7552145190

[claybro]

There has been only one firm proposal to extend Adelaides tram network, and that was part of the "Coast to Coast" light rail... (Whatever happened to that? ). The rest have been sketches, pipe dreams and wishes of various inner local councils. Be not surprised then when we hear the state government bleating about no funds to cover any further extensions, despite the millions now on offer from the Feds. It would appear that excuse at least is now gone from the states playlist, and if there are any firm plans in existence NOW is the time to present them, and not wait until they are presented as an election promise.

[rev]

I like the idea of trams to Prospect but not sure the road is wide enough to do it.
Prospect Road has momentum and potential to be as good as The Parade. I think a tram linking Adelaide, North Adelaide and Prospect would be a huge boom.

But Prospect Road was just never built wide enough to handle its own development.

If it was to be a separated tram line like runs down King William St and Port Road, no.
But there's no reason it has to be separated..it can run along the actual road like at Glenelg.

[[Shuz]]

There has been only one firm proposal to extend Adelaides tram network, and that was part of the "Coast to Coast" light rail... (Whatever happened to that? ). The rest have been sketches, pipe dreams and wishes of various inner local councils. Be not surprised then when we hear the state government bleating about no funds to cover any further extensions, despite the millions now on offer from the Feds. It would appear that excuse at least is now gone from the states playlist, and if there are any firm plans in existence NOW is the time to present them, and not wait until they are presented as an election promise.

Actually, the $800m Western Suburbs tram network proposal a few years ago was pretty serious as well. There was a lot of detailed investigations, engineering drawings and the like. Went into the very specific details of stop locations, traffic lane changes, new depots, new tram rolling stock (Alstom Citadis) etc.

Cost killed that one.

[claybro]

I guess this is the point Shuz. Dozens of proposals, study's, costing... And then it always comes down to"we don't have the money". As if $800mil to provide 1/3 of Adelaide with quiet efficient low polluting public transport is an insurmountable sum of money.... It is not! So then the gov shoves it in the waste basket of failed Adelaide transport proposals, and blames the Feds for not handing out enough money.... Well folks, there is money on the table, $800 mil is not a lot when you consider what it is creating, but the plans to present to the Feds are where? In a bin somewhere... Oh so lets just get them to finish the Gawler line for us, and in another few years we might ask again for some money towards OH electrification. It's just lazy lazy stuff!

[PeFe]

From the Advertiser

Tram to Prospect would create 800 jobs, boost economy

rospect Council Mayor David O'Loughlin is looking for the community’s thoughts on a tram in Prospect.
Sarah Spencer and Dan Jervis-BardyThe Advertiser
Email a friend
CONSTRUCTING a $295 million tram line through Prospect will create more than 800 jobs and provide a boost to the district’s and CBD’s economy, according to a new report.
The project is outlined in a document from the Western Regional Alliance, which has also listed other crucial works needed.
The report shows ProspectLINK is among $87 billion worth of South Australian transport, housing and industry projects which would create thousands of jobs and boost the economy.
The unfunded tram line, first mooted in the State Government’s 30-year Transport Plan in 2013, would run from the CBD to Grand Junction Rd along Prospect Rd and O’Connell St.
“The new line will promote further investment in residential and commercial development and strengthen local jobs growth,” the report said.
Mayor David O’Loughlin said Malcolm Turnbull becoming Australia’s Prime Minister and SA’s Jamie Briggs taking on the role of Minister for Cities had ignited a new debate about public transport in the state.
“Personally I think a tram would be fantastic,” Mr O’Loughlin said.
“I can see clear benefits to the community living along Prospect Rd and those who want to live in new apartments on Prospect Rd.”
Charles Sturt, West Torrens, Holdfast Bay and Port Adelaide Enfield councils, whose districts would benefit from the projects listed in the Western Regional Alliance document, want to form an economic union.
Muratti Cakes & Gateaux co-owner Jimmy Parris said a tram would fix a problem caused by a growing lack of parking in Prospect.
“It would open up the opportunity for more people to come to the area and would be great for business,” Mr Parris said.
“I don’t have a car and I’m always on my bike so to be able to just jump on a tram to the city or towards Grand Junction Rd would be great.”
Originally published as All aboard tram plan for Prospect

Yep a tram can be a catalyst for economic development......so why not build a tram line down the main street of Port Augusta?
Because there is no transport figures showing a need, nor is there a business case.
Transport money for realistic outcomes ! (Now!) Thats my slogan...

[rubberman]

Plus of course a tram down Prospect Road would either mean no parking to make room for a tram-only lane, or cars and trams would need to mix like on Jetty Road, and then the tram becomes much slower than a bus.

Trams down streets like Prospect Road and tge Parade were fine when cars were rare. However, as cars became more prevalent, sharing with vehicles on a fixed track just slowed everything down.

I'm not sure how that trams down Prospect Road could ever be economical today.

Having said that, if someone came up with a method of insuring that tram traffic flow did not cause problems, AND it was economic, I'd be for it.

[Vee]

Design plans key....

Design issues will form part of the debate surrounding a proposal to return trams to Prospect in Adelaide's north, the city's mayor says.

The tram line project estimated to be worth $295 million remains unfunded and is part of the State Government's 30-year transport plan.
The proposed line would run from the city to Grand Junction Road, along Prospect Road and O'Connell Street.

City of Prospect Mayor David O'Loughlin said the community needed to debate the concept but flagged there were major design concerns about how trams could run along narrower busy roads.

He said the city and trams "happily co-existed" along Prospect Road before 1957 but his support for the plan was conditional upon design plans.

"This issue is one our community has debated a little bit before but it is time to get the debate really cranked up because every council seems to want to win the prize," he told 891 ABC Adelaide.
"I certainly want us to be in that race to at least decide whether we should push for it really hard or whether it is just of interest.

"It is important to talk about the transport network as an integrated network. All around the world trams have shown that people like you and me ... get out of our cars and get on public transport if there is a tram but we won't do that so much if it is a train or a bus."

He said Prospect Road was a "commuter road".

"If you have a tram hopefully you have a lot less vehicles as well, but there are issues ...
"How you can fit the tram and cars, and bikes and pedestrians all safely is a design problem.

"It's been solved in many places around the world and I want us to be part of the debate to see if we can solve it out in Prospect."

ABCNews: (Includes brief history of Adelaide Trams)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-05/p ... ns/6827474

[The Scooter Guy]

Design plans key....

Design issues will form part of the debate surrounding a proposal to return trams to Prospect in Adelaide's north, the city's mayor says.

The tram line project estimated to be worth $295 million remains unfunded and is part of the State Government's 30-year transport plan.
The proposed line would run from the city to Grand Junction Road, along Prospect Road and O'Connell Street.

City of Prospect Mayor David O'Loughlin said the community needed to debate the concept but flagged there were major design concerns about how trams could run along narrower busy roads.

He said the city and trams "happily co-existed" along Prospect Road before 1957 but his support for the plan was conditional upon design plans.

"This issue is one our community has debated a little bit before but it is time to get the debate really cranked up because every council seems to want to win the prize," he told 891 ABC Adelaide.
"I certainly want us to be in that race to at least decide whether we should push for it really hard or whether it is just of interest.

"It is important to talk about the transport network as an integrated network. All around the world trams have shown that people like you and me ... get out of our cars and get on public transport if there is a tram but we won't do that so much if it is a train or a bus."

He said Prospect Road was a "commuter road".

"If you have a tram hopefully you have a lot less vehicles as well, but there are issues ...
"How you can fit the tram and cars, and bikes and pedestrians all safely is a design problem.

"It's been solved in many places around the world and I want us to be part of the debate to see if we can solve it out in Prospect."

ABCNews: (Includes brief history of Adelaide Trams)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-05/p ... ns/6827474

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger ... c6b0af5130

[claybro]

What an absolute waste of space! Problems of narrow roads, competing with parked cars and trams. ? Disrupting traffic flow... Gee not like there aren't any trams in existence already. How bout these guys in prospect take a ride down to jetty road and see how it works there! Does the council want prospect road to be a thoroughfare for cars, or an urban destination? Time to decide guys. Then stop wasting time with yet another community discussion, the result of which will be the car obsessed public crying about a loss of parking space. We know the result of public consultation on trams, we know how trams operate. If the council wants a tram down prospect road, then make sure it is on the master plan already and lobby long and hard for it or just go back to sleep.

[Patrick_27]

What an absolute waste of space! Problems of narrow roads, competing with parked cars and trams. ? Disrupting traffic flow... Gee not like there aren't any trams in existence already. How bout these guys in prospect take a ride down to jetty road and see how it works there! Does the council want prospect road to be a thoroughfare for cars, or an urban destination? Time to decide guys. Then stop wasting time with yet another community discussion, the result of which will be the car obsessed public crying about a loss of parking space. We know the result of public consultation on trams, we know how trams operate. If the council wants a tram down prospect road, then make sure it is on the master plan already and lobby long and hard for it or just go back to sleep.

Claybro, dude. We get it, you don't like trams. However, some of us do. There's no point preaching the same argument on a Tram thread when most of us have already taken your points into account.

And before you call me senseless, I agree with you in some aspects, I actually think Churchill Road would be better suited for trams because it has the space for a separate tram corridor and if cost were a factor (which at this point it is), they could spur a line off the Entertainment Centre line. But that aside, of-course councils are going to encourage trams along their main retail/dining districts, it's in the local economy's best interest.

[claybro]

You mis-read my post. I 100% support trams. It is the endless gabfests that go on in Adelaide without any concrete plans that drive me insane. In fact they drove me to another state!