SA Economy

[claybro]

I'm just sick of the petty sniping between states. Sure, some jokey rivalry is fine, especially with sports, but what does this kind of aggressive shitcanning do to benefit anyone? It creates a toxic culture which sadly carries over to business.

Never mind the numerous false facts in that particular article (are we still taking a Gizmodo article on the cost of the hospital, which was based on a very incomplete table from Emporis, as gospel?)

As a South Australian living in WA, I have followed this project announcement with interest, not least because it has been covered widely in the media over here (WA hoping to snare more of the subs work). SA is the state which put the most work in to securing the subs way back when. States like WA QLD and NSW weren't really serious and so Adelaide got the gig on the Collins Class subs. Now when things are slowing down in the other states, they see it as a right to muscle in. fair enough, but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.

[Wayno]

but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.

Interesting. I'm not seeing or hearing that from within. Perhaps i'm not reading sufficient from news.com.au?

[claybro]

Interesting. I'm not seeing or hearing that from within. Perhaps i'm not reading sufficient from news.com.au?

You need not look too much further than some comments on this forum. Most comments hardly read like wholehearted support for the project. or what it means for SA.

[rev]

As a South Australian living in WA, I have followed this project announcement with interest, not least because it has been covered widely in the media over here (WA hoping to snare more of the subs work). SA is the state which put the most work in to securing the subs way back when. States like WA QLD and NSW weren't really serious and so Adelaide got the gig on the Collins Class subs. Now when things are slowing down in the other states, they see it as a right to muscle in. fair enough, but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.

Embarrassing? How so mate?

People are rightly skeptical about this. We've heard this all before. 12 submarines will be built in Adelaide. Just happened to be an election last time we heard it as well.
This time they've appointed a builder. A builder who has a preference for building the first few back in France.

Nick Xenophon and Labor asking to see the contract, asking for specific details that say all 12 will be built in Adelaide, is not embarrassing, it is looking out for our states interests.
It is in our interests to have all 12 built here, not 9 or 8 built here and the first few in France.

$50 billion. And how much of that is actually going to be invested in South Australia building these submarines?

There's sweet nothing on details yet. Why should we celebrate and break out in song and dance over this?
We've been down this road before. We've been burnt before.
People aren't in the mood for empty promises and vague contracts with no details.
People want things set in concrete before they get excited.

[claybro]

Compare the carping and questioning of the details and the implication of a political stunt in SA, then I open the West Australian at lunch today, and out falls a glossy brochure, talking UP WA's contribution to the subs and warships and the billions in maintenance contracts to flow in WA and pages of pictures with articles all promoting WA's shipbuilding and defence maintenance capabilities. One would think WA had won the lions share of the work. It is just a completely different vibe than what is coming out of SA, almost like SA is embarrassed to have won this contract on political pork barrelling, and the usual self doubts are creeping in before it even gets off the ground.

[Wayno]

The media simply writes what they believe will sells papers and online subscriptions, and yeah sure - this means presenting differently to state based mentalities which have built up over time.

News.com.au sites (adelaidenow vs telegraph vs others) also regularly write conflicting stories that play states against each other, and too often present these 'opinion pieces' as 'news'. It's a race to the bottom. Might as well make reference to godwin's law in all articles.

Fairfax isn't as bad, but aren't angels either. I get my news fix from Indaily.

[Nathan]

Fairfax isn't as bad, but aren't angels either. I get my news fix from Indaily.

Yup. Indaily for local news, Guardian for national/world news.

[urban]

Compare the carping and questioning of the details and the implication of a political stunt in SA, then I open the West Australian at lunch today, and out falls a glossy brochure, talking UP WA's contribution to the subs and warships and the billions in maintenance contracts to flow in WA and pages of pictures with articles all promoting WA's shipbuilding and defence maintenance capabilities. One would think WA had won the lions share of the work. It is just a completely different vibe than what is coming out of SA, almost like SA is embarrassed to have won this contract on political pork barrelling, and the usual self doubts are creeping in before it even gets off the ground.

SA had all those articles and glossy brochures when the subs were promised before the last election. Then for 3 years SA looked pretty stupid when it looked like we would only get a tiny portion of the work.

SA had all those articles and glossy brochures when Olympic Dam was approved. Now for 5 years SA has looked pretty stupid when nothing has eventuated.

The northern suburbs had all those articles and glossy brochures when the railway electrification was promised. Then for 3 years they looked pretty stupid when the funding was removed.

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”

[phenom]

A few of my observations:

1. There's a definite 'meme' out there - maybe enhanced by Abbott and Hockey's behaviour - that somehow SA benefits disproportionately from largesse from elsewhere and I think some people do feel we 'need to stand on our own two feet'. The problem with that is that every other state and territory has their hand out too - and SA just isn't as big a beneficiary of (say) Federal dollars as assumed. Case in point: The GST relativities we hear about are only a (significant) part of total Federal funding to the States - when you look at Federal government figures for total funding to States then SA still gets more than we pay in but not by as much as thought.

2. We are poorly served (as everyone here knows) by our limited local media, particularly the Advertiser. They've sacked so many staff (oddly enough not reported on by them!) that I'm surprised they can even keep the lights on. We got headlines like 'Japan demands explanation' after the subs announcement as if a major international crisis was brewing when in fact it was simply a request for feedback - Japan is new to supplying international arms and is on a steep learning curve. Then they are playing up the 'other states are outraged'. I'm sure their AdelaideNow equivalent commenters are because they don't understand a lot of this work will also be sourced from places in Australia other than SA.

3. I agree with rev and urban above that to some extent I think people are just profoundly cynical - and honestly, with good reason to some extent. However I think the 'near death experience' of the Liberals in terms of what happens when you openly tip the bucket on a State - which is, ironically, only relevant Federally because they have burnt so much political capital since being elected 2.5 years ago - has made this one of those things where they will more or less have to follow through now. We'll still get plenty of 'scandals' though with every little twist and turn - see point two above.

[rev]

Yeh the whole Japan thing was blown out of proportion to the point it was almost a fabrication.
The Japanese were disappointed they didn't win the contract, as anyone would be when it's a $50 billion contract.
This would have been their first export contract for weapons since WW2 I believe. As you said they wanted feedback so they could in future improve their process in tendering for contracts. Nothing at all wrong with that.

But this is South Australia, where we are stuck with a clumsy Labor government, a non-existent Liberal opposition(unless you consider being a naysayer an effective opposition), and News Corp propaganda and dodgy journalism. Could be worse I suppose.

[rev]

https://www.competitivealternatives.com ... ol1_en.pdf


from page 12

National results for Australia reflect the combined
results for two major cities, Melbourne and Sydney, with
Adelaide and Brisbane also included in the study.
Among these major cities, Adelaide and Melbourne
are the cost leaders and appear to be in constant
competition for the title of “lowest cost city” in
Australia. These two cities have alternated between first
and second place among the Australian cities compared
in each edition of
Competitive Alternatives
since 2008.
Brisbane has experienced rising costs for industrial
leasing and utilities since 2014. This has pushed
Brisbane’s total business costs above those of Sydney
for the first time in the history of this study

Why no Perth?
And if the cost to do business here/tax wise, is so low, why are businesses still going into administration and shutting down or laying people off?
What else can be and needs to be done by government? Someone more into economics want to elaborate?

[phenom]

But this is South Australia, where we are stuck with a clumsy Labor government, a non-existent Liberal opposition(unless you consider being a naysayer an effective opposition), and News Corp propaganda and dodgy journalism. Could be worse I suppose.

Just on this... the SA Liberal opposition here is appalling. I mean, I know it's almost become a cliche but it's truly like they actually don't want to win. I think Steven Marshall actually does a reasonably good job given what he's working with but I'm not sure (based on a recent leaflet) that focussing on 2036 is a great idea - is that when they next expect to actually get into government? Where's the real vision in a relatable timeframe?

People can say what they will about the Olsen era but the fact we were talking about things like the Capital City Tower back in ~2000 or whenever is a world away from today. I can't help imagine the psychological benefit to the city had that one single project gone ahead - and it didn't even involve heaps of office space or anything else to depress city markets. Just something to change the skyline, break the hold of the 'State Bank' towering over the city, set a new standard for what was possible in our capital.

To me, and relevant to a development forum like this, the telling point is that the massive freeing up of development around the city and surrounds had to come from Labor with the development approval and planning changes. One might argue it benefits construction which is heavily unionised but it's also quite a pro-business development. It's hard to say, of course, what the counterfactual would have been in an alternate history but still - I recall my local (Liberal) MP Rachel Sanderson dropping leaflets in my letterbox that were against all kinds of mooted developments. Maybe she's just playing to her (unusual for a Liberal electorate) voters but it was just weird to me.

[phenom]

Why no Perth?

Rev, my memory could be failing as it was sometime ago but I believe governments (or at least smaller ones) were expected to pay to be included in the Competitive Alternatives report. I suspect WA couldn't be bothered.

[claybro]

Why no Perth? And if the cost to do business here/tax wise, is so low, why are businesses still going into administration and shutting down or laying people off? What else can be and needs to be done by government? Someone more into economics want to elaborate?

One of the biggest issues Adelaide has is it's proximity to Melbourne. Why would a company duplicate its admin functions from its major domestic market (Melbourne) to a much smaller market (Adelaide) which is in effect "just up the road". Cheap airfares, a one hour flight or 8 hour drive, and the relative excitement and liveability of all Melbourne has to offer, well company execs just choose Melbourne. -It doesn't matter how cheap Adelaide is to do business, most execs would just rather live in Melbourne and fly the relevant staff into and out of Adelaide as required. Two mates of mine commute from Adelaide weekly, one to Sydney and 1 to Melbourne. Both worked at corporate offices in Adelaide up to 3 years ago, both offices relocated for no other reason than the directors, board etc, prefer to play with the big boys over East.
AS FOR WHY NO PERTH?...Well from personal experience, Perth is 2 or three time zones away, is not realistically driveable, and people here really don't give a flying fig about what happens in Sydeny or Melbourne. Cost of doing business does not really come into the equation, because the rewards (dollar sales) are higher. It is an isolated captive market. Customer service is generally poor and expensive. Because of the time difference any number of companies are required to have a local office presence if even only because of the time difference and ease of contact.

[Goodsy]

A higher speed rail network between country Victoria and the south east would do wonders I think, or at the very least make commuter travel between the states a possibility. A line from Mt Gambier to Warrnambool at 200kph would just about allow daily commuters, and if you added Portland, Hamilton and Milicent into that mix there's almost 80k people all connected, go even further with Horsham, Stawell and Ararat and you have over 100k people.

Using China's 350kph rated track at a per kilometer cost of $21m a 500km system would only be about $10bn, and that's with 350kph speeds. However the train corridors already exist between those towns so they wouldn't be starting from scratch and it wouldn't be at those speeds.

although a $10bn investment in the region wouldn't go astray i'm sure