[COM] Memorial Drive upgrade

[Patrick_27]

Well I did say I would check when I get home. I also said major sporting codes. Nobody cares about Australian Ice Hockey, or Netball, or womens basketball. Most people don't even care about the NBL. I'm surprised you guys haven't listed lawn bowls and darts.

And it's because nobody cares about these minor sports in Australia, that these codes should be in multi-user stadia where the cost burden of a stadium is shared.

That is without doubt the most ignorant comment I have ever read on this forum... NBL and Australian Netball League are the only sports in this city have delivered consistent crowds year in year out; unlike other codes (football, T20) whereby the teams overall success during the season depicts usually how many people will show.

I don't think the popularity of sport should be used at all to justify the already logical argument that stadia should be shared amongst different sporting codes.

[Patrick_27]

The existing RAH and nightlife have been able to co-exist — you have the Botanic Hotel immediately across the road (with restaurants as well), plus PJ O'Briens & The Elephant less than half a block away, and then of course Rundle St. Obviously the Newmarket portion of the site will stay (it's heritage listed), and I guarantee you that it will remain very very popular.

In some ways I wouldn't be upset to see HQ gone and replaced with a multi-storey building(s) surrounding the Newmarket Hotel. The exterior of HQ isn't exactly inspiring and has very little street appeal. That corner also isn't the best entrance into the city from Port Road either.

Nightclubs come and go and for HQ to continue to draw big crowds every weekend, I'm sure the owners are already sourcing out potential locations or another HQ-style club will eventually be on the drawing board. What needs to happen though is the nightlife spread throughout the city, instead of just Hindley/Rundle. Thankfully though it seems the small bar revolution is doing this, which is also bringing some class (somewhat) to Hindley Street.

Maybe we need a thread dedicated to entertainment/bars?, considering it seems at least one new bar is opening up every week now.

I think you under appreciate the value of HQ. Yes, it's a club. But it's also a fantastic, well-renowned live music venue. To lose HQ without it relocating elsewhere will be a MASSIVE loss to the music scene here; we will lose all shows of that are too big for The Gov and too small for Thebby; which is an absolute buttload. It's a lot more complicated than "nightclubs come and go".

[crawf]

I think you under appreciate the value of HQ. Yes, it's a club. But it's also a fantastic, well-renowned live music venue. To lose HQ without it relocating elsewhere will be a MASSIVE loss to the music scene here; we will lose all shows of that are too big for The Gov and too small for Thebby; which is an absolute buttload. It's a lot more complicated than "nightclubs come and go".

Ofcourse it would be. Hence why I said the owners are probably already sourcing out locations or another mega night club/live music venue would be opened elsewhere in the city. HQ is just too popular to simply close down and nothing replacing it.

[ChillyPhilly]

Funding it would be costly (anywhere between $300-500m) depending on the size and features. But some of this cost could be recovered with the sale of prime retail/residential land at Mile End where the Netball Centre is and the Entertainment Centre (could be incorporated into the Bowden project). Personally, if ether the the AEC or ETSA Park land were made available; I'd love to see a new state of the art 25,000 seat Soccer venue built to replace the worsening Hindmarsh Stadium. If such a venue were built on ETSA Park; it'd put two key sporting facilities next to each-other, significantly improve the parking issues at Hindmarsh and would be ideally located for train travelers and eventual tram travelers (when the airport line is built).

I find it disappointing that there's talk of a big upgrade to Memorial Drive, yet the government refuses to throw a cent at Hindmarsh. Hindmarsh needs it more honestly.

I don't think Hindmarsh is a bad location for football or the Entertainment Centre. It's already well connected to transport (tram + Outer Harbour line + doable walk from Gawler line + lots of bus routes), and there's growing density plus plenty of established businesses to cater for the crowds. Certainly better than where ETSA park is - which is sandwiched between an unused bit of parkland (which is also inaccessible due to the train lines) and a bulky goods homemaker centre.

I also agree with this sentiment. The location is difficult to beat (aside from being next door to AO) and can be enhanced with regeneration of the area once Bowden is complete.

-----

I've maintained all along that the new RAH is in the wrong spot. The Keswick Military Barracks would have provided a far more ideal location.

Now, back on topic. I don't see any need to upgrade Memorial Drive. There are other priorities to spend money on.

[Ho Really]

The theatre and dome could always be incorporated into a new commercial or mixed development. The arena itself is really just one big shed.

The Entertainment Centre may look like a big shed but it is functional. That's all it matters. It's perfect for big shows like Disney on Ice, Motocross events, etc. The other areas are good for conventions, expos and fairs. It has good parking and transport options. So it has the package.

Memorial Drive should be used for all the other sports that I, rev and a few others mentioned earlier. A stadium with a retractable roof (although expensive) would be ideal. During the years we had the SA Hardcourt Championships at Memorial Drive one of the reasons why players came here was to acclimatise to (the hot) weather similar to Melbourne for the Australian Open. Although Rod Laver Arena's centre court can be covered, the other courts are still open to the elements.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

We really do need political leadership to just get things done with no half measures and no compromises.

Correct. No half measures!

War Memorial drive as in the road should be removed in front of the oval and tennis center. The tennis center should be demolished along with the gym and replaced further out a little with a new modern tennis facility. We don't need 50 courts like Melbourne just one indoor stadium and and a few out door courts.

I doubt they'll remove War Memorial Drive as there won't be any reason to build that far. I also doubt Tennis SA is going to remove all those outside courts (hardcourt, grass and clay). They are all required.

[...]

Montefiore road should be realigned to the west. And a rectangular stadium built out that side of the oval. Or elevate a stadium over the road partly. This is the year 2015 no reason why engineers in this state can't achieve these things.

Let's be practical. First thing, the council won't realign Montefiore Road further west because of the North Adelaide Golf Course. Adelaide is one of the few cities to have a quality golf course right in the middle of the city. Secondly most, if not all the open air tennis courts would have to go.

In other words build a stadium precinct out there and restructure the SMA to be fully Independent of any sporting code organizations.

I think what we will find soon enough is that the location of the new RAH has been a big mistake as far as "activating" the riverbank precinct. There's a nightclub that will be closing in the not too distant future because the hospital will be opening in 2016. Good luck creating nightlife beyond the casino. Missed opportunity and I fear the upgrade of our tennis stadium will also be another missed opportunity.

I agree regarding the New RAH being a mistake. It should've been built elsewhere. My choices would've been where it is currently or at Glenside. Basically it should've remained on the eastern side of the city. Anyway, it's being built and it will be a great hospital. Hopefully the best in Australia. That riverbank precinct would have been similar to what Melbourne has with the MCG, Rod Laver Arena, HiSense Arena, etc., and AAMI Park, etc., at Melbourne Park. A missed opportunity? Maybe.

Cheers

[Patrick_27]

The theatre and dome could always be incorporated into a new commercial or mixed development. The arena itself is really just one big shed.

The Entertainment Centre may look like a big shed but it is functional. That's all it matters. It's perfect for big shows like Disney on Ice, Motocross events, etc. The other areas are good for conventions, expos and fairs. It has good parking and transport options. So it has the package.

Memorial Drive should be used for all the other sports that I, rev and a few others mentioned earlier. A stadium with a retractable roof (although expensive) would be ideal. During the years we had the SA Hardcourt Championships at Memorial Drive one of the reasons why players came here was to acclimatise to (the hot) weather similar to Melbourne for the Australian Open. Although Rod Laver Arena's centre court can be covered, the other courts are still open to the elements.

Cheers

Such a typical statement from someone who probably doesn't know anything about entertainment facilities. 'functional' doesn't at-all mean reliable. It's a crap venue; its layout is rubbish, if it weren't for the tram it's location is would be crap too, and it's hardly flexible in regards to it's capacity arrangements - the fact that they had to build an entirely different venue next door to cater for smaller artists is a joke. Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne has three capacity arrangements whereby they can have just GA available, GA and half the seating area, or GA and all the seating. These are just a few problems with the venue, along with the cost to hire the venue which would be significantly less if we had a multi-purpose arena in the CBD.

[Patrick_27]

Personally, I feel the only way they'll be able to comfortably build an arena on Memorial Drive is if they re-align Memorial Drive itself.

Would have made more sense when they were building the footbridge to build a new Memorial Drive along the Torrens river edge and build the footbridge over the roadway so they could ave both working at the same time during major events. But then it would allow enough room for any new facility built next to the oval to be built without any consideration having to be made about how they're going to work around the road.

[rev]

I doubt they'll remove War Memorial Drive as there won't be any reason to build that far. I also doubt Tennis SA is going to remove all those outside courts (hardcourt, grass and clay). They are all required.

My line of thinking is that the area in front of the oval where War Memorial Drive intersects the plaza and the foot bridge/torrens, should be turned into an open plaza area.
The courts..of course we need more then one court, but if you demolish everything out there, including the gym, and build a multipurpose arena like we are talking about, you could build outdoor courts around it or to one side, but leave room for temporary stands to be erected on the outside courts. Or build one or two outside courts with a few thousand seating capacity. If the ultimate goal is to win back an ATP or WTA event of significance, you would want to maximize it by providing the facilities. Those facilities could be used anyway regardless.

Let's be practical. First thing, the council won't realign Montefiore Road further west because of the North Adelaide Golf Course. Adelaide is one of the few cities to have a quality golf course right in the middle of the city. Secondly most, if not all the open air tennis courts would have to go.

They could realiagn, restructure that affected area of the golf course. It wont kill them. It's a public golf course, it doesn't host any major national or international events does it?

Anyway let's not get too caught up in this, it's just our ideas and not like those in charge care what you or I have to say.
Although people on this site seem to have better visions for our city then those in charge.

[Brucetiki]

Such a typical statement from someone who probably doesn't know anything about entertainment facilities. 'functional' doesn't at-all mean reliable. It's a crap venue; its layout is rubbish, if it weren't for the tram it's location is would be crap too, and it's hardly flexible in regards to it's capacity arrangements - the fact that they had to build an entirely different venue next door to cater for smaller artists is a joke. Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne has three capacity arrangements whereby they can have just GA available, GA and half the seating area, or GA and all the seating. These are just a few problems with the venue, along with the cost to hire the venue which would be significantly less if we had a multi-purpose arena in the CBD.

Umm the Entertainment Centre has similar capacity arrangements too for the arena.

Also having two venues means they can have two separate shows going at the same time (and it's been done before).

And as for crap location - it's a 20 minute walk, or 2 minute drive from the city, with good all round PT access (not just the tram).

[Ho Really]

Such a typical statement from someone who probably doesn't know anything about entertainment facilities. 'functional' doesn't at-all mean reliable. It's a crap venue; its layout is rubbish, if it weren't for the tram it's location is would be crap too, and it's hardly flexible in regards to it's capacity arrangements - the fact that they had to build an entirely different venue next door to cater for smaller artists is a joke. Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne has three capacity arrangements whereby they can have just GA available, GA and half the seating area, or GA and all the seating. These are just a few problems with the venue, along with the cost to hire the venue which would be significantly less if we had a multi-purpose arena in the CBD.

Patrick_27 you obviously didn't read my statement. The Entertainment Centre is perfect for those events that need plenty of room. Are you suggesting that events like motorcross or Disney on Ice should be performed at the a new Memorial Drive centre? If you know more than us please state your credentials. What I can say is this, as a former sports photojournalist I have been to a few arenas. I judge them from my perspective, close up and from a spectators point of view. Occasionally when I've had the opportunity to go behind the scenes (so to speak) I can also make an educated judgement from that perspective as well. So, mine is not your typical statement.

Umm the Entertainment Centre has similar capacity arrangements too for the arena. Also having two venues means they can have two separate shows going at the same time (and it's been done before). And as for crap location - it's a 20 minute walk, or 2 minute drive from the city, with good all round PT access (not just the tram).

Thank you Brucetiki for your insightful input.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Personally, I feel the only way they'll be able to comfortably build an arena on Memorial Drive is if they re-align Memorial Drive itself.

Would have made more sense when they were building the footbridge to build a new Memorial Drive along the Torrens river edge and build the footbridge over the roadway so they could ave both working at the same time during major events. But then it would allow enough room for any new facility built next to the oval to be built without any consideration having to be made about how they're going to work around the road.

War Memorial Drive is already on the edge coming from King William Road to the entrance of the Southern Stand of Adelaide Oval. If you are saying it should continue on the edge and then form an S-bend back to the intersection at Montefiore Hill then you could propably do it. If Next Gen remains it still would need an access road for their car park.

My line of thinking is that the area in front of the oval where War Memorial Drive intersects the plaza and the foot bridge/torrens, should be turned into an open plaza area.
The courts..of course we need more then one court, but if you demolish everything out there, including the gym, and build a multipurpose arena like we are talking about, you could build outdoor courts around it or to one side, but leave room for temporary stands to be erected on the outside courts. Or build one or two outside courts with a few thousand seating capacity.

An open plaza is nice. Probably the best way to do this is to underground War Memorial Drive under a new Tennis Stadium. Have a car park underneath with entrances from both sides of War Memorial Drive. Most of the ideas here require Next Gen to be demolished. The point is, how easy is that? If you can demolish Next Gen then you'll have plenty more room and you probably wouldn't need to rearrange outside courts etc.

If the ultimate goal is to win back an ATP or WTA event of significance, you would want to maximize it by providing the facilities. Those facilities could be used anyway regardless.

Of course a nice gleaming new stadium would help, but in the end if there is no solid sponsor(s) and the right amount of prizemoney it won't matter too much. Trying to fit in more tournaments is hard. We can only try. Then again there are other sports as well if we can get them here. That's why I've said it many times, forget the Commonwealth Games and go for individual events and spread them over the course of a year and years (like the TDU).

They could realiagn, restructure that affected area of the golf course. It wont kill them. It's a public golf course, it doesn't host any major national or international events does it?

I guess it could be done but the way I see it, it's not necessary. Besides if you do it Montefiore Hill Road won't be a straight line down to the bridge. Then if you also realign War Memorial Drive like Patrick_27 suggested it becomes a little more complicated. I think it all should stay the same and hope that you can demolish Next Gen.

Cheers

[crawf]

Patrick_27 you obviously didn't read my statement. The Entertainment Centre is perfect for those events that need plenty of room. Are you suggesting that events like motorcross or Disney on Ice should be performed at the a new Memorial Drive centre?

Why not?. These type of events are performed at the new Perth Arena

Right now we have substandard venues for major concerts/events, basketball and tennis. So wouldn't it make more economic sense to construct a large multi-purpose arena (13-15k capacity) for those tenants which will be beneficial to the state but also attract other international events to Adelaide. This could include the FINA World Aquatics Championships, Commonwealth Games and perhaps pouching the Kooyong AAMI Classic from Melbourne.

Adelaide Oval is a great example of merging events to one venue. Previously we had two substandard stadiums; one was pretty, well located but had limited capacity. The other was a concrete bowl in the suburbs with poor facilities but had decent capacity. However combing both cricket and AFL to Adelaide Oval, allowed the State Government to spend a huge sum of money towards one stadium, which in the process has transformed Adelaide Oval into a premier multi-purpose stadium with outstanding facilities but also keeping that unique historic charm. This is why I believe a multi-purpose arena will be just as successful.

Either way a new tennis or multi-purpose venue is still probably another 5 years away. In the meantime the State Government should look at bidding to host the Davis Cup at the Entertainment Centre just to bring that tennis momentum back to SA.

[Nathan]

Would it have to be co-located with Adelaide Oval? Something along the lines of Perth Arena would probably work pretty well in the vacant area near the bus station as an additional drawcard for the Victoria Square / Market precinct. (Plus it would remove the issue of not being able to have events on at the same time at both Memorial Drive and Adelaide Oval.)

[Patrick_27]

Such a typical statement from someone who probably doesn't know anything about entertainment facilities. 'functional' doesn't at-all mean reliable. It's a crap venue; its layout is rubbish, if it weren't for the tram it's location is would be crap too, and it's hardly flexible in regards to it's capacity arrangements - the fact that they had to build an entirely different venue next door to cater for smaller artists is a joke. Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne has three capacity arrangements whereby they can have just GA available, GA and half the seating area, or GA and all the seating. These are just a few problems with the venue, along with the cost to hire the venue which would be significantly less if we had a multi-purpose arena in the CBD.

Patrick_27 you obviously didn't read my statement. The Entertainment Centre is perfect for those events that need plenty of room. Are you suggesting that events like motorcross or Disney on Ice should be performed at the a new Memorial Drive centre? If you know more than us please state your credentials. What I can say is this, as a former sports photojournalist I have been to a few arenas. I judge them from my perspective, close up and from a spectators point of view. Occasionally when I've had the opportunity to go behind the scenes (so to speak) I can also make an educated judgement from that perspective as well. So, mine is not your typical statement.

Umm the Entertainment Centre has similar capacity arrangements too for the arena. Also having two venues means they can have two separate shows going at the same time (and it's been done before). And as for crap location - it's a 20 minute walk, or 2 minute drive from the city, with good all round PT access (not just the tram).

Thank you Brucetiki for your insightful input.

Cheers

Whilst I recognise your seemingly well-informed perspective, we'll have to agree to disagree. My credentials are a degree in entertainment management and having worked extensively across all of Melbourne's live music venues, including as an intern at Olympic Park - Rod Laver Arena.